PTSD CRITERIA

[Jack]

Hello.

This is from a post on VBN.....In order for a PEB to rate PTSD at 30% or greater (retirement obviosusly), the service member has had to have been under inpatient care for PTSD. This, according to him, is NOT in the 1850. I guess it's something they like to keep close hold.

Anyone want to weigh in on this? So there is apparently some document somewhere that says they will not rate PTSD at 30% or greater unless you were under inpatient care for PTSD.

JASON, MIKE AND OTHER GURUS,

IS THIS A HIDDEN REQUIREMENT?

sorry for caps.....If so what kind of treatment..and how long?

And is it in the 1850?

Wait if Army one doesnt go by the 1850 right?

If so what Army reg states this?

THANKS

JACK

[maparker]

It does not matter what 1850 says as they have to rate per the criteria of the VASRD. That point was made clear in law in the 2008 NDAA.


VASRD Para 4.129 states:

4.129 Mental disorders due to traumatic stress.

When a mental disorder that develops in service as a result of a highly stressful event is severe enough to bring about the veteran's release from active military service, the rating agency shall assign an evaluation of not less than 50 percent and schedule an examination within the six month period following the veteran's discharge to determine whether a change in evaluation is warranted.

So any unfit for PTSD should get at least 50% TDRL to start.

Mike

[Jack]

Hello,

Hello.

THX Mike...

Ive read that Army is really tring to find unfit on PTSD...sounds like cause once unfit u have evidence and 4.129 to get 50% most likely....but they are going to do whatever to low ball u....

but one question remains...on inpatient care....

This is from a post on VBN.....In order for a PEB to rate PTSD at 30% or greater, the service member has had to have been under inpatient care for PTSD. I guess it's something they like to keep close hold.

Anyone want to weigh in on this? So there is apparently some document somewhere that says they will not rate PTSD at 30% or greater unless you were under inpatient care for PTSD.

JASON, MIKE AND OTHER GURUS,

IS THIS A HIDDEN REQUIREMENT?

sorry for caps.....If so what kind of treatment..and how long?

If so what Army reg states this?

What have u heard?

THX JACK

[maparker]

They are required, by law, to rate all unfitting conditions, to include PTSD, per the criteria of the VASRD. Don’t let them get away with anything less. The VASRD criteria is as follows:

§ 4.129 Mental disorders due to traumatic stress.
When a mental disorder that develops in service as a result of a highly stressful event is severe enough to bring about the veteran's release from active military service, the rating agency shall assign an evaluation of not less than 50 percent and schedule an examination within the six month period following the veteran's discharge to determine whether a change in evaluation is warranted.

4.130 Schedule of ratings—mental disorders.
The nomenclature employed in this portion of the rating schedule is based upon the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, of the American Psychiatric Association (DSM-IV). Rating agencies must be thoroughly familiar with this manual to properly implement the directives in §4.125 through §4.129 and to apply the general rating formula for mental disorders in §4.130. The schedule for rating for mental disorders is set forth as follows:
9411 Post-traumatic stress disorder

General Rating Formula for Mental Disorders:

Total occupational and social impairment, due to such symptoms as: gross impairment in thought processes or communication; persistent delusions or hallucinations; grossly inappropriate behavior; persistent danger of hurting self or others; intermittent inability to perform activities of daily living (including maintenance of minimal personal hygiene); disorientation to time or place; memory loss for names of close relatives,
own occupation, or own name....................... 100%

Occupational and social impairment, with deficiencies in most areas, such as work, school, family relations, judgment, thinking, or mood, due to such symptoms as: suicidal ideation; obsessional rituals which interfere with routine activities; speech intermittently illogical, obscure, or irrelevant; near-continuous panic or depression affecting the ability to function independently, appropriately and effectively; impaired impulse control (such as unprovoked irritability with periods of violence); spatial disorientation; neglect of personal appearance and hygiene; difficulty in adapting to stressful circumstances (including work or a worklike setting); inability to establish and maintain effective relationships.......70%

Occupational and social impairment with reduced reliability and productivity due to such symptoms as: flattened affect; circumstantial, circumlocutory, or stereotyped speech; panic attacks more than once a week; difficulty in understanding complex commands; impairment of short- and long-term memory (e.g., retention of only highly learned material, forgetting to complete tasks); impaired judgment; impaired abstract thinking; disturbances of motivation and mood; difficulty in establishing and maintaining effective work and social relationships...........50%

Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events)........................................... 30%

Occupational and social impairment due to mild or transient symptoms which decrease work efficiency and ability to perform occupational tasks only during periods of significant stress, or; symptoms controlled by continuous medication...............10%

A mental condition has been formally diagnosed, but symptoms are not severe enough either to interfere with occupational and social functioning or to require continuous medication.....................0%

[Jack]

Roger that MIke,

Wish I could make it to DC meeting in S17?...Dont forget to mention the problems all of us in the guard have as well with the MEB...

I know the General Rating Formula for Mental Disorders

Boy the VA makes their mistakes too....just alittle info...I currently have been denied PTSD claim...but Friday talked w/ my va psych DR...he states that few other soldiers have had identical remarks C&P dr put on our exam that hurt rating...My dr will write letter to dispute the C&P dr remarks....basically I am diagnosed severe and chronic..with nexus...and C&P dr wouldnt state that on exam...AMAZING...asap..sending in my NOD...time game now for this rating to help me in MEB process

I dont expect anything higher than 10% because of the low ballin beauracratic crap game one has to endure w the VA...but will continue to fight.

Way I understand it...this rating will not be crucial for state to refer me to MEB....the diagnosis and other va psych dr. notes will be. Correct?

But it will be crucial to have rating once Im in MEB. Correct?

And as an example would 10% VA rating be too low for PEB to rate at least 10%?

I currently, according to criteria, meet at least 30%.... on the safe side...but possibly 70% on the high end..and if factor in heavily occupational and social impairment....I could be 100%...the ONLY job I have is guard which I ETS in Oct but hopefully will be in MEB process....and there are 2 years of DR notes that state I have serious/severe problems w/ social....

But I understand one has to show that they are unfit, regardless of anything va DR say about my PTSD, before moving on to a medical rating. Correct?

Thats the q? I dont have a good paper trail within the guard showing this?

But I know I am a detriment and a hazard to my unit because of the PTSD symptoms. I just until now havent told anyone tring to be good soldier.

And I read that PEB has to consider civilian occupational and social impairment. Correct?

THX again

JAck

[maparker]

Remember, the VA rating is not specifically tied to unfitness for DoD. In other words, it is possible to be rated 100% by the VA and still be found fit by the Service in which case they would not assign a rating at all. Conversely, the VA could rate you at 0% and the Service could still find you unfit and assign their own rating.

The guard/reserve MEB issue is a top concern. I have been working it hard and there is some additional guidance coming out of the Pentagon (Army) soon on the issue to help the Guard and Reserve do it right. Let's hope it is good guidance.

Mike

[embalmerswife]

Jack and Mike,
One of the things we are finding at our base that makes a difference is the length of the NARSUM for PTSD. Hubby has two hospitalizations, but his doctor (from another base) wrote a 12 page NARSUM. Several of the other guys here have more frequent and longer hospitalizations but are getting one page NARSUM's from one doctor in particular. One specific soldier has five hospitalizations with the shortest being 42 days. His NARSUM was one page. He was rated at 30%. It sounds like these are cases where an independent medical advocate should be involved, but here they have yet to define who that is.
The other thing we are seeing alot of is change in diagnosis right before soldiers go to MEB. This particular doctor is changing them from PTSD to "adjustment disorder" or "failure to readjust from combat." From what I can glean, with the failure to readjust diagnosis, the mental issues are the soldier's problem and not the Army's. This happened to a soldier who was had been at Fort Bragg's WTU but was transferred to our WTU several weeks before his MEB. The doctor here changed his diagnosis even though he had been seeing the same guy at Bragg for several months and the guy here only saw him once. Anyone else having these same issues?

[Jack]

embalmer and Mike,

more good posts,

Im familiar with Va ratings on mental...gotcha on va decision... could be different than what DOD says....seems... like you said before they COULD rate whatever % they choose....problem is getting that unfit for PTSD..then u have the VA rating schedule behind u....

And this 4.129 and 4.130 applies to all...AD and reserve that have served more than 1yr in Iraq..as example. correct?

embalmer,

Anway to get an edited copy of your narsum?...without your private info....any copies of anything like this will help....

thanks again

[maparker]

I know of no requirement for a reserve/guard memeber to serve more than 1 year in Iraq or anywhere else. If dismissed from the military for PTSD, the inital rating is supposed to be 50%. Remember, PTSD can be from non combat causes.

Mike

[tmcsjm]

not sure that is true. i got out for ptsd in 2004 and all i got from dod was 10% and i was blown up in iraq!!! but the va gave me 40% right off the bat then i fought it and got 80% so not sure where this 50% thing is coming from?????