AVOIDING THE PRESUMPTION OF FITNESS RULE

[Jack]

Mike, Jason, Stu or any others with experience,,,,

I first of all am nowhere near being referred to the MEB.

There is alot of evidence that has come up recently in my defense. Would like to discuss.

Im not asking here in this paragraph for VA advice as much as stating a bit of whats goin with me and the VA and how these things are affecting my within the military. I am rated by VA at 20%. I have submitted evidence for PTSD claim from VA VOC-REHAB from psych dr stating at this time I am not employable because of PTSD and other mental health. I am confident I will be approved for my claim as I also have been seeing VA psych dr for 3 years to try and get better but to no avail. I also have been telling VA DR for over year Im having symptoms that are apparantly related with IBS, GERD, HAND, VERTIGO, MENIERES. I have been taking VA meds for all. I plan on submitting claims for all as secondary to my PTSD once the PTSD claim is approved. I plan on going to TBI related appt within the month but have trouble driving because of the PTSD symptoms. I have been through screenings and this appt is a 4 hr with neuro and psych dr who make the diagnosis. I will sumbit a claim for TBI as well if Im diagnosed.

The annual PHA came back and Im non deployable with PULHES of 333333. I think they know somtin bout it and not tellin me. They have some cards they are holdin Im sure.

Im have to decide by next few week whether Im reenlisting, extending or put in for retirement. ILL have 20 good years October 20.

Im in the guard and the 1SG and full timers think I want to retire so they suggest I should just sign for a yr or so, get my letter then get out. They say my CO will sign my reenlisting, extending papers.

Im curious if the unit has stipulations to signing the reenlisting, extending papers like not mentioning any of these problems/illnesses/disabilities.

Im told in my state my options are 1, 3 or 6 yrs if reenlisting, extending.


I want to avoid the presumption of fitness rule by reenlisting, extending. I need to do the 3 yr cause 1 yr doesnt do me any good because Ill be within the 1 yr window in a few weeks.'

Im thinkin sign for 3 yrs...then asap somehow get into the PDES hopefully by my CO...get referred to MEB. But how long should I wait after reenlisting, extending to do this....boy theyll get pissed if I shortly after reenlisting, extending I say I cant continue to do my job, want to see doctors, go to MEB, and start layin the paper trail...maybe after reenlisting, extending get my VA doctors to write something sayin I cant, shouldnt for my mental health and safety of others continue to come to drills..

Im still not sure how it will go down..so Im tryin to figure it out to help myself..even down the road...


What is the difference between reenlisting, extending?

Mike, Jason, I know both of you know this rule but what do you think about the highlighted portions playing a part with me if I reenlist for say 3 years?

Explain laymans what this means please.

Does E3.P3.5.2.4. mean that if you are outside the 1 year window BUT qualify for retirement you are presumed fit?

It sounds like it is. Therefore there would be no benefit for reenlisting, extending in my case.

1 year would not be good because Ill be within 1 year in a matter of weeks.

E3.P3.5. Presumption of Fitness

E3.P3.5.1. Application. Except for Service members previously determined unfit and continued in a permanent limited duty status, Service members who are pending retirement at the time they are referred for physical disability evaluation enter the DES under a rebuttable presumption that they are physically fit. The DES compensates disabilities when they cause or contribute to career termination. Continued performance of duty until a Service member is approved for length of service retirement creates a rebuttable presumption that a Service member’s medical conditions have not caused career termination.

E3.P3.5.2. Presumptive Period. Service members shall be considered to be pending retirement when the dictation of the member’s MEB occurs after any of the circumstances designated in paragraphs E3.P3.5.2.1. through E3.P3.5.2.4., below.

E3.P3.5.2.1. When a member’s request for voluntary retirement has been approved. Revocation of voluntary retirement orders for purposes of referral into the DES does not negate application of the presumption.

E3.P3.5.2.2. An officer has been approved for Selective Early Retirement.

E3.P3.5.2.3. An officer is within 12 months of mandatory retirement due to age or length of service.

E3.P3.5.2.4. An enlisted member is within 12 months of his or her retention control point (RCP) or expiration of active obligated service (EAOS) but will be eligible for retirement at his or her RCP/EAOS.

THX and please help

JACK

[cvma544]

I will leave the better part of the question to Maparker and Jason,
However the "3" profiles should have been cause for refferal to PDES.

The VA medical reocrds, test results, Doctor's letters, etc will be useful in the PDES. At my Ortho consult the Army Doc was thrilled that the records were in hand and complete, he basically wrote his addendum from the VA records and a light exam/eval and questions to clarify.

If your VA records are well written and SVC made for your problems they certainly don't hurt you with PDES for your rating.


Jason, Maparker what say you?


Stu

[Jack]

THX STU,

iM GOIN TO CALL U THE NEXT FEW DAYS IF ITS OK TO SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING WITH YOU AS WELL....

YES MIKE AND JASON PLEASE COMMENT ON WHATS LEFT OF MY POST AND ANYTHING ELSE..

THX JACK

[cvma544]

Cool


Stu

[xeno]

PRESUMPTION OF FITNESS RULE

applies if you have put your retirement papers in. Because then it show intent of retiring & so that people wont start "milking" the system because they know that they are getting out.

X

[Jack]

Im still looking for help from the gurus Mike and Jason. Are they out there?

Fire for effect.......

THX xeno,

I didnt state I had put in for retirement. I dont plan to. Like I said Im trying to avoid the PRESUMPTION OF FITNESS RULE....

Does E3.P3.5.2.4. mean that if you are outside the 1 year window BUT qualify for retirement and not put in for retirement you are presumed fit?

It sure sounds that away? Any takers on that...read on....

and THX...I need all the help I can get to come to a conclusion here

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Jack

Im still looking for help from the gurus Mike and Jason. Are they out there?

Fire for effect.......

THX xeno,

I didnt state I had put in for retirement. I dont plan to. Like I said Im trying to avoid the PRESUMPTION OF FITNESS RULE....

Does E3.P3.5.2.4. mean that if you are outside the 1 year window BUT qualify for retirement and not put in for retirement you are presumed fit?

It sure sounds that away? Any takers on that...read on....

and THX...I need all the help I can get to come to a conclusion here

Jack,

I will call you to discuss your questions. Sorry I haven't been able to in the past few days, I have several cases going now that are taking most of my time.

I think the answer to your question on E3.P3.5.2.4, is no. My read is that you have to be within 12 months.

2 qualifications for PFIT rule under this provision:

1)An enlisted member is within 12 months of his or her retention control point (RCP) or expiration of active obligated service (EAOS)- This basically means that you are within a year of ETS or RCP.

2) but will be eligible for retirement at his or her RCP/EAOS.- This means that in addition to 1) you will have at least 20 years at the point you will reach ETS or RCP.

My read is that you can "take yourself out of" PFIT rule on the basis of EAOS/ETS by extending. However, there is nothing you can do, except getting promoted, to avoid RCP issue if you have 20 years or more.

[Jack]

high angle sir! I know u r busy sir....Ill owe u..just let me know who isnt payin and Ill go collect for u....if my phone is busy Im on the internet..if u can buzz me there,,,and will immediately get off.....

and hope u havin success for the soldiers with PEB.....and have u seen any more success for the reservists and guard?

And is DOD still avoiding the 50% for the PTSD? I also hear that it only applies if u r still on AD..not for those that are off AD like a reservist/guard..even if u have enough evidence to prove it happened on AD.

THX

ANd Mike Id like to get your take on this....

THX

[Jack]

Anyone else have any experience on this....from a laymans soldier..so to speak....thx to all