Chapter 14/MEB?!??

Discussion in 'Administrative Separations' started by n531088, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. n531088

    n531088 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Ok so a year and a half ago (2011 Mar) I was punished for a UCMJ offense, providing alcohol to a 20 yr old in my unit. Well, I have been pending a chapter ever since but I tore my knee up bad and had surgery which delayed it. Then the rear d commander decided he would let me reclass. Then the BN LTC said no be has to be kicked out. No chapter packet is made I have just been told I am not staying in. Well my doctor started a MEB bc the surgery didn't help my knee out much and I am developing arthritis and my knee is always swollen. There is also a screw that is out of place. Well, my QTC appts are all done but I was told yesterday that I HAVE to go finish my phase 2 for the chapter. I have been found physiclly and mentally unfit for duty. What routes can I go? IG? I am so fed up bc if they wanted to chapter me they could have done it A LONG time ago. I have only been in trouble that one time. I have amazing counseling statements. I just need advice bc I keep hearing different stuff. Should I even go do the phase 2 or should I do it and go to IG right after? Thank you

    PS when I ran into my jag attorney he said I should have left the unit after my punishment and was literally shocked I had not. Idk if this means anything to be situation
     
  2. n531088

    n531088 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Anybody?? I was told today I don't have to sit up at the hospital as I have an appt on the 18th. Jag told me today that a chapter 14 can cancel a MEB. Should I hire a lawyer?? I have ONE minor scratch on my record I do not feel it is fair to lose EVERYTHING over something the unit chose to press on me alone instead of including tr other 4 of age soldiers at that party 2 yrs ago. Someone please give me advice jag won't tell me much bc my chapter packet isn't complete. And btw evidence shows that I did not purchase all of the alcohol that was there.
     
  3. green594

    green594 PEB Forum Veteran

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    you need to keep in mind that it you are put out with a negative discharge you stand to lose your VA benefits also. i would be as diligent as possible in fighting this looking for all loopoles. in your post you have been minimizing the situation "one minor scratch", "I did not purchase all of the alcohol that was there". The bottom line is that your BC feel strongly enough to potentially take all of your benefits away and i personally feel that you need to take appropriate action.

    "when I ran into my jag attorney he said I should have left the unit after my punishment and was literally shocked I had not. Idk if this means anything to be situation "
    you were punished under UCMJ, can they also chapter you for the same action (i do not know). What is the time limitations, can they start this chapter 1 year after the offense. Sorry i cannot be to much assistance.

    i wish you luck.
     
  4. Ed Mercanti

    Ed Mercanti PEB Forum Veteran

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    The regulation says that if you are pending a discharge which could result in an under other than honorable conditions (UOTHC) discharge, you can't be medically separated unless the general officer in command determines that your disability is the proximate cause of the misconduct. A chapter 14 carries a possable characterization of service of UOTHC. So yes, they can chapter you while you're undergoing an MEB. As long as the misconduct occurred during this enlistment, they delay in processing doesn't preclude you being chaptered. Evidence? A chapter is an administrative proceeding and is not subject to the rules of evidence contained in the MCM (Manual for Court Martial).

    If I were you I'd go to the IG. You don't have anything to lose. I would use the evidence showing you didn't buy the booze (innocence) and the delay in processing as reasons you should be allowed to be medically retired. Present your evidence in writing. This way if the command opts to continue with the chapter you will have a strong case for the BCMR. But if they try to chapter you, demand a board of officers. If you have less than 6 years of total military service, they don't have to give you the board, but then the worst discharge they can give you is a general discharge which is under honorable conditions.

    You asked so I told you the truth . . .

    Ed
     
  5. n531088

    n531088 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Thank you for responding and yes I have been trying to do as much as possible but I am responsible for a lot of what goes on as far as training, planning, etc. I go to many meetings a week. And by the time i have time for myself where i meed to go is closed. I have a great record and if I am such a "dirtbag" I don't understand why I have such major responsibilities. My ets date is 362 days away and I have 84 days of terminal leave as well. The commander I had at the time of the offense went way overboard and I was not the only one court martialed for seemingly stupid things right before he left command. This is just so frustrating. I want to hire one of my jag attorneys who now has his own law firm but I don't know the right time bc one day they say I am not being booted then the next week I am. If I could scan my court martial record of trial I would. It's laughable. People lied on the stand and were never punished even though they were called out on Contradicting the original questions they answered. It's such a BIG mess that I am trapped in!
     
  6. yardbirdaa

    yardbirdaa PEB Forum Veteran

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    If I were in your shoes, I would call their bluff. Take the counseling statement or whatever documents you have that say you are being court martial-ed, and take it to your jag attorney you want to hire. Jason can answer this better than I can, but I believe your attorney would request a copy of their "file" on you, and he could determine what they are, or are not planning on doing. Either way, that should force the issue to conclusion, good or bad. Then your MEB can continue, and you will have a lot bigger questions.
     
  7. n531088

    n531088 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    I should clarify. My court martial happened Jan 2011 and I have been pending chapter since. The judge didn't discharge me. Just lost rank and had another punishment. I injured my knee badly June 2011 during battalion sports that I was voluntold to do. I have been pending chapter since march 2011 even though I have not had any other misconduct. I got copies of all my monthly counseling statesments which are all excellent. I never got a rehabilitative period bc my CoC said since I committed a serious offense I don't get one. Yet they have me doing tons of work. I volunteer for many things. People know I am reliable and People also wrote character letters for me that I have still. My CoC tried to chapter me UOTHC and battalion refused it. Now they are trying to do GUHC. Trust me. There is SO MUCH to this mess.
     
  8. Ed Mercanti

    Ed Mercanti PEB Forum Veteran

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    Do you have over 6 years of total military service??
     
  9. n531088

    n531088 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Just hit 5
     
  10. grizz13

    grizz13 PEB Forum Veteran

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    If your on Ft. Lewis go to the MEB JAG Office, there was a memo put out early June that all MEB proceedings will go forward no matter what type of chapter is pending. Once the PEB finds fit or unfit, then the chapter may or may not move forward. It also states that if the CoC wants to push the chapter they have to go to the CG of Ft. Lewis directly and discuss why they are wanting to go forward... I don't have the memo personally, but I have seen it.
     
  11. pittpan2005

    pittpan2005 PEB Forum Veteran

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    You went to courts martial in 2011. Your punishment was demotion and something else. Are you saying you are still being threatened with admin sep for the same offense or is there a new one?
     
  12. pittpan2005

    pittpan2005 PEB Forum Veteran

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    I would contact the JAG office and ask for a copy of your case file. I would also talk with your XO and find out what is actually happening with your case; ie discharge. I would also schedule an appointment with a JAG for review and also contact civilian counsel for a free consultation. However, without a copy of the proceedings they likely won't be able to adequately review your case. They would need to request those files. Like others mentioned above you might considered going the IG route for clarification.

    Good Luck Man....
     
  13. n531088

    n531088 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Same offense!
    Also, I have spoken with my CoC. We got a new CoC in my company in April 2011. I know for a fact that my old CoC left telling the new ones that I was a piece of crap and I have two letters from people who heard the convo in detail. My rear D commander has no freakin clue what is going on and keeps giving me the run around saying nothing can be done or that he will look into it. I guess I will give IG a shot. Also, I do have a copy of my court martial.
     
  14. CNSJohnson

    CNSJohnson PEB Forum Veteran

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    What type of courts-martial did you under go??? You should really take a look at the discharge regulation. I am not sure what it is for you branch of service but It should answer a number of your questions. Also, why would you be moved out of your unit after a C-M??? I would ask the JAG about this as well, as there may be error on the part of your unit.
     
  15. Ed Mercanti

    Ed Mercanti PEB Forum Veteran

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    It is very common to chapter someone for an offense for which convicted by court-martial when the sentance did not include a punitive discharge. No prohibition on that.
     
  16. n531088

    n531088 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Yes. It is common and I am aware of that. However I tore my miniscus acl and lateral stabilizer playing a sport THEY put me in. My knee is in terrible shape and suddenly they want to take me out and try to deny everything. I just feel screwed. They could have done it right after my CM but chose to make me think i was deployig and i trained others before I blew my knee out. Then told me I wasn't going to be deploying whether I hurt my knee or not. Thanks for your help guys, I will probably just be hiring someone to help sort this out.
     
  17. Ed Mercanti

    Ed Mercanti PEB Forum Veteran

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    Just remember lawyers are very good in courts because they are trained in law and law is what is considered in courts. ADMINISTRATIVE discharges are not subject to the MCM and so law doesn't play in the proceedings.
     
  18. pittpan2005

    pittpan2005 PEB Forum Veteran

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    The issue is the discharge regs they are following. Since it appears they(CM) left it open you to CoC to handle, they have choices of how to enforce the admin sep. It depends on the finding of guilt, etc. Like you mentioned they didn't give you the "rehabilitation" period, however they may not be required to do so. It depends on the type of discharge they are going for. If it's based on a conviction that is severe enough not to warrant a rehab period, I would assume the process would have been fast. Since they haven't proceeded it in a timely manner they are either delaying until EAS date, or trying to get clarification from numerous POC's above them. The regs talk about the offense and if it's determined not to be "that serious," then transferring units can be sufficient. They are required to notify the next unit of your situation, but that would cancel out the admin sep. Since they didn't move you it seems like they are still trying to figure out what to do. Do you have a friend in your admin department that can tell you what's happening behind the scenes?

    With this pending for 16+ months, I would contact the IG. They shouldn't hold this over your head for that long. Hence the reason why a "rehab period" is 6 months.

    When dealing with punitive matters it's a completely different ball game. Also, whether you were playing a sport with the unit or not seems irrelivent. You were on active duty and the injury happened while in receipt of pay. There doesn't seem to be a question of whether or not your injuries are duty related so don't focus on the "mandatory fun game," but rather on proving you're unfit or fit and getting the admin sep moved along. Also, you can be admin sep'd and not lose VA benefits depending on the basis for discharge.
     
  19. bigfig

    bigfig PEB Forum Veteran

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    See your SJA, Ombudsman all of your complaint agencies.

    A chapter 14 either 12b or c requires the MEB portion to be completed. That is up to the point where the PEBKO's next action is ti send it to the PEB. The entire packet then goes the the General Court Martial Convening Authority (usually the installation CG) and the CG determines board or chapter.

    If the board is already at the PEB or you have results from the PEB then these are to be included in the packet that goes to the CG.
     

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