New article army times CH 61 under 20 CDRP

Discussion in 'Physical Evaluation Board System Overview' started by tony292, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. tony292

    tony292 PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Home > News > Prime


    Chapter 61 vets, awaiting full pay, losing hope
    By Rick Maze - Staff writer
    Posted : Friday Aug 31, 2012 12:12:42 EDT
    About 130,000 retirees whose military careers were cut short by service-connected injuries have been waiting since 2002 for their chance to receive full military disability retired pay and veterans disability compensation.

    They’re beginning to realize their day is probably not coming.

    So-called “concurrent receipt” changes that reversed a 19th-century policy prohibiting payment of both retired pay and veterans disability pay have never been extended to those retired from the military for noncombat disabilities with fewer than 20 years of service. Now, with Congress more interested in cutting spending and reducing the deficit than in expanding benefits, disappointment is setting in.

    “I am disgusted with both parties in Congress … it seems like there’s money for everyone but us,” said William Steimel, a former Army warrant officer medically retired in 1993 after almost 17 years of service and one of the so-called “Chapter 61” retirees, known for the section of the U.S. Code covering disability retired pay.

    Concurrent receipt would boost his income by about $1,500 a month, he said.

    Medical disability retirees still have their military retired pay reduced dollar for dollar by any amount received in Veterans Affairs Department disability compensation. That offset has been phased out for most disabled military retirees with 20 or more years of service and will be fully phased out for all by 2014, giving them concurrent receipt of both benefits.

    Steimel believes President Obama could have done more to prod Congress to allow payment of disability retirement and veterans disability pays without offset to Chapter 61 retirees.

    An opportunity arose in 2009, when President Obama proposed phasing in concurrent receipt for Steimel and others in his situation over five years, but an agreement was never reached with Congress over how to cover the $5.1 billion cost of providing the expanded benefit.

    “I supported President Obama in 2008, but he will not get my vote in 2012. He has broken a promise to me and other Chapter 61 veterans,” said Steimel, of Belleville, Ill.

    Steve Strobridge, government relations director for the Military Officers Association of America, said the 2009 failure to expand concurrent receipt for Chapter 61 retirees underscored the difficulty of finding money for new benefits.

    Obama, former House Armed Services Committee chairman Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., all supported covering Chapter 61 retirees under concurrent receipt policy but could not find the money, Strobridge said.

    If officials that powerful can’t work it out, “you get a sense of how difficult this is to resolve,” Strobridge said, adding that it’s “not going to get easier.”

    “While we are not giving up, I don’t think in the short term there is any chance of this issue being funded by Congress,” said Strobridge, a retired Air Force colonel who is also co-chairman of the Military Coalition, a group of more than 30 military-related organizations that share a common legislative agenda.

    If money does become available, top priority for receiving full retirement and disability pay should go to medically retired veterans who had 19 years of service and are 100 percent disabled, Strobridge said. People with fewer years of service and lower disability ratings could be phased in as money becomes available, he said.

    Brian Lind, a former Air Force technical sergeant medically retired for knee issues in 1993 after 15 years of service, said he has heard all kinds of excuses about why he doesn’t qualify to receive the dual benefits paid to others and cannot help but feel cheated.

    Lind, of Boise, Idaho, said he didn’t see his inability to run or walk long distances as a major issue in his particular service. Others with similar problems were allowed to stay in, he said.

    “Looking at the timing, only one thing can be identified,” he said: His medical retirement happened the same year President Clinton took office “and began his drawdown of the services.”

    “I feel very strongly about this, especially when politicians use ‘word shuffle’ to keep denying an earned benefit,” said former Navy Chaplain’s Assistant 2nd Class Kevin O’Connor of White Bear Lake, Minn., who was medically retired in 1996 with 19 years of service. “Every time I think about this discriminatory policy, I get mad. For the first couple of years [after leaving service], I had to use food stamps, church handouts and hand-me down clothing from family for my kids,” said O’Connor, a single father raising two children.


    LEAVE A COMMENT
     
  2. commosgt

    commosgt PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    33
    I am going to refran from making a comment about this article because it really pisses me off. Strobridge can go jump off a building for the comments he made!!!
     
  3. maparker

    maparker Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,959
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Below is the comment I made to the article.

    Mike

    Offsetting retirement earned by years of service with disability compensation for service connected disabilities makes no sense whatsoever.

    Disability retirees are the only retirees that require 20 years of service to qualify for CRDP. Length of service retirees with less than 20 years can qualify for CRDP. There are well over 50,000 length of service retirees with less than 20 years of service who are eligible for CRDP if and when their VA rating is at least 50%. Why is it a 15 years in service TERA retiree is eligible to get CRDP yet a disability retiree with 19 years cannot. If defies logic.

    The article eludes to Combat Related Special Compensation (CRSC) that disability retirees with less than 20 years can qualify for if the VA compensates them for conditions that are combat related. However, this may not pay as much as CRDP even with the tax advantages that come with CRSC. $1,000 taxable CRDP dollars beats $100 non taxable CRSC dollars.

    More importantly, the way DoD calculates CRSC for disability retirees can cheat these members out of thousands of dollars a month. Thanks to MOAA, DoD and Congress know about this problem and agree that it is a problem. However, attempts to fix the problem always end up failing in the end due to issues finding the money to fix the mistake. Way to take care of our combat wounded Congress. Not!

    It is amazing that we had no problem finding the money to send our military into harms way but when it comes to properly compensating our wounded warriors discharged from the military due to disability the money is not there. It is a national disgrace plain and simple.

    Finally, let us not forget the other military retirees who cannot get CRDP because their VA rating fall below the arbitrary 50% level required. And don’t forget about those who received annuities for their service during the drawdown who must forfeit all or part of that that annuity if they have service connected disabilities.
     
    vet-bama, DRUM WT and joelf like this.
  4. Jayson69

    Jayson69 PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I know where they can find the money, Dock the Governments Pay excluding Military for the lack of work that they have done. They make darn sure that their money is protected. They should freeze their Retirements till they fix the issues.
     
  5. Ed Mercanti

    Ed Mercanti PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    43
    First off, I thought CRSC was tax exempt while CRDP was not. Maybe I'm mistaken. But I believe the issue is double compensation. When someone is retired for physical unfitness, the military is compensating for the physically unfitting conditions. To preclude double compensation for the same disability, Congress has prohibited CRDP to those who are retired for physical unfitness with less than 20 years. The train of logic appears sound on the surface, but there are two notable inconsistancies. First, they allow retirees for physical unfitness with less than 20 years of service to collect CRSC. How can you allow double compensation for one and not all? Second is they aren't factoring in the disabilities that are compensatable by the VA and were not a basis for the disability separation (not unfitting). Its my opinion that it will either take fairly complex legislation or an "opening of the floodgates."
     
  6. maparker

    maparker Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,959
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Ed,

    It is not double dipping, it is not complex to implement as the double dipping concerns are already eliminated in current CRDP/CRSC law. First, CRDP and CRSC are not disability compensation. They are career compensation earned by length of service. Disability retirement is not disability compensation, it is career compensation for a career cut short by disability. Disability retirement only becomes disability compensation when the DoD disability rating percentage exceeds the LOS percentage (2.5% x years of service). Any amount of disability retirement that is above the amount based on LOS is deducted, by law, from the amount of CRSC or CRDP due.

    Both CRDP and CRSC have provisions that limit the amount of CRDP or CRSC to the amount earned by length of service. Thus the CRDP or CRSC only compensates for the retirement amount earned by length of service that is being offset by VA compensation. No one can collect both CRDP and CRSC, they must choose the one that benefits them the best.

    What every retiree deserves, be it for disability or length of service, is all of their VA compensation for disability and a retirement amount based on length of service. CRDP and CRSC, when properly applied, do just that. Unfortunately, CRSC is not properly applied as my DES Outrage 8 details. I personally get all of my VA and all of my length of service retirement. What they do for me they should do for all retirees.

    Yes, CRSC is non taxable and CRDP is taxable. I fat fingered that and will fix it.

    Now, does it make sense that an E-2 with 1 year and an E-7 with 19 years, both put out for disability and with a 100% VA rating, should get the same total DoD and VA compensation? Of course not. But that is exactly what happens without CRDP eligibility for disability retirees with less than 20 years service. They would both get around $3,000 a month from the VA and that would exceed and offset whatever DoD disability retirement they get. The E-7 should receive more compensation as he served for 18 more years.

    The Dole-Shalala Commission had a simple fix for this problem. They recommended that all disability retirees receive all of their VA and a DoD retirement based on length of service. Unfortunately Congress has never acted on this recommedation.

    Having military members forfeit their LOS retirement amount if they are retired for disability is akin to a FERS employee having to forfeit their TSP account (to include the government contribututions and the earning from those government contributuons) if they receive a FERS disability retirement.

    Mike
     
    Dfree454 and nwlivewire like this.
  7. Jayson69

    Jayson69 PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    18
    So if the Army puts me on PDRL, I qualify for CRDP if I am 100% P/T by the VA? I have be paying for SBP out of pocket since I have been on TDRL. Would I recieve Back Pay for CRDP? Please let me know, I had 12 yrs Active, 6yrs National Guard and Reserves. I have been on TDRL for 4 yrs, and hopefully that is changing this year.
     
  8. maparker

    maparker Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,959
    Trophy Points:
    143
    No. As a disability retiree you need 20 years of service and a VA rating of 50% or more to qualify for CRDP. No 20 years = No CRDP.

    Mike
     
  9. Jayson69

    Jayson69 PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thank You!!!!
     
  10. Ed Mercanti

    Ed Mercanti PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    43
    When a Soldier in pay grade E-7 is denied reenlistment due to being overweight, inability to pass APFT, or something else that is not due to misconduct, that Soldier is given severance pay which is based solely on years of active service and pay grade. If disability retirements were to compensate Soldiers for the loss of a career, shouldn't everyone get the same amount based on years of service and pay grade in the same manner?
     
  11. eagleone

    eagleone PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Mike,
    Thanks for this discussion!

    Couple days ago I sent you some information on my status concerning combat-related and long-term airborne status. My proposed disability is more then my LOS retirement time. Realistically, the tax-exemption is the only benifit that I would receive from a combat-related decision from the PEB. It looks like the IPEB will not give me combat-related on anything.

    Most of this is my fault for not getting the bad jumps documented in my medical records, but it was a low-priority at the time. What do you think are the chances of getting it added in a FPEB? Your thoughts?

    Thanks again.
     
  12. COLTONMD

    COLTONMD PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    305
    Trophy Points:
    18
    We paid 700 trillion dollars to the banks that made bad loans "mortgage industry". We cant take care of Veterans!
     
  13. maparker

    maparker Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,959
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Ed,

    Overweight and PT failure is something the indivudal can control (motivation) unless it is driven by a medical conditon. If a medical condition drives the problem the individual should be processed under the IDES.

    Mike
     
    DRUM WT likes this.
  14. maparker

    maparker Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,959
    Trophy Points:
    143
    What is your DoD rating?
     
  15. Ed Mercanti

    Ed Mercanti PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    43
    What I'm getting at is double compensation Mike. If the military wasn't compensating a Soldier for disabilities under the IDES, the Soldier would get a flat rate based on years of service and pay grade. But a disability retirement is based on a percentage based on the level of disability for the unfitting conditions. So the military is compensating a Soldier for the unfitting conditions which terminated the Soldier's career.
     
  16. hsanchez0328

    hsanchez0328 PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    23
    A disabled soldier is not choosing to leave the military, whereas and E-7 who is overweight and unable to pass his PT made a conscious decision of not losing weight and not exercising more to be able to pass his APFT. A disable soldier did not consciously make a decision to be hit by an IED and lose part of his leg, arm, etc. or jump from an airplane and blow out his knees or back. So in one situation, the decision was taken away from the disable soldier to continue serving, where the E-7 knew he would get chaptered if he did not meet army standards. Also, an E-7 would not receive both CRDP or CRSC and VA compensation because in order to receive both, you need to have been retired from the military not released on an admin separation.

    If disability retirements were to compensate Soldiers for the loss of a career, shouldn't everyone get the same amount based on years of service and pay grade in the same manner? Yes they should. An E-5 with 2yrs of service should receive the same comp as an E-5 with 2 yrs of service but not an E-5 with 10yrs in service and an O-3 with 9yrs of service should receive the same amount of an O-3 with 9 yrs of service but not an O-3 with 15yrs of service.
     
  17. hsanchez0328

    hsanchez0328 PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    23
    So what you are saying is that CRDP and CRSC should not exist regardless if you served 1yr or 24yrs in the military because the military is already compensatiing a disabled soldier for his disabilities and a 20yr+ soldier for his time in service?
     
  18. eagleone

    eagleone PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    58
    70% DoD referred / 80% VA
     
  19. maparker

    maparker Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,959
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Ed,

    If a member was in for 16 years and found unfit for a disability rated 30% per the VASRD, his disability retirement would not be 30% it would be 40% as 16 YOS x 2.5% = 40%. Again, a disability retirement compensates the career lost due to disability; the VA compensates for disability.

    Many in fact have a disability retirement that is based on the DoD disability percentage that exceeds their LOS percentage. That is why CRSC and CRDP have special provisions for disability retirees that limits CRSC and CRDP to the amount earned by Length of Service. If in fact a disability retiree with a DoD disability percentage higher than their LOS percentage was able to keep the entire DoD disability retirment and the entire VA compensation I would agree this would be double dipping. But again, CRSC and CRDP has special provisions for disability retirees to prevent double dipping (see below). As such, CRSC and CRDP only restore career compensation based on LOS rather than disability compensation based on degree of disability.

    The Dole-Shalala solution was more elegant and simple. In short, get rid of DoD rating percentages. Anyone deemed unfit due to a compensable condition, regardless of the VASRD rating, would get a military retirement based on LOS and they would be able to keep all of their VA compensation (no offset).

    Mike


    CRSC law (10 USC 1413a)
    (3) Special rules for chapter 61 disability retirees.—
    (A) General rule.— In the case of an eligible combat-related disabled uniformed services retiree who is retired under chapter 61 of this title, the amount of the payment under paragraph (1) for any month shall be reduced by the amount (if any) by which the amount of the member’s retired pay under chapter 61 of this title exceeds the amount of retired pay to which the member would have been entitled under any other provision of law based upon the member’s service in the uniformed services if the member had not been retired under chapter 61 of this title.
    (B) Special rule for retirees with fewer than 20 years of service.— In the case of an eligible combat-related disabled uniformed services retiree who is retired under chapter 61 of this title with fewer than 20 years of creditable service, the amount of the payment under paragraph (1) for any month shall be reduced by the amount (if any) by which the amount of the member’s retired pay under chapter 61 of this title exceeds the amount equal to 21/2 percent of the member’s years of creditable service multiplied by the member’s retired pay base under section 1406(b)(1) or 1407 of this title, whichever is applicable to the member.



    CRDP law (10 USC 1414)

    (b) Special Rules for Chapter 61 Disability Retirees.—
    (1) Career retirees.— The retired pay of a member retired under chapter 61 of this title with 20 years or more of service otherwise creditable under section 1405 of this title, or at least 20 years of service computed under section 12732 of this title, at the time of the member’s retirement is subject to reduction under sections 5304 and 5305 of title 38, but only to the extent that the amount of the member’s retired pay under chapter 61 of this title exceeds the amount of retired pay to which the member would have been entitled under any other provision of law based upon the member’s service in the uniformed services if the member had not been retired under chapter 61 of this title.
    (2) Disability retirees with less than 20 years of service.— Subsection (a) does not apply to a member retired under chapter 61 of this title with less than 20 years of service otherwise creditable under section 1405 of this title, or with less than 20 years of service computed under section 12732 of this title, at the time of the member’s retirement.
     
  20. maparker

    maparker Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,959
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Which is the greater amount, your DoD retirement or your VA compensation?

    Mike
     

Share This Page