Promotion upon medical discharge

Copenhagen

Registered Member
#21
hmm, so there is a new MILPER message about this!

Here is the text portion.

ENLISTED PROMOTION CLARIFICATION FOR SOLDIERS IN THE DISABILITY EVALUATION SYSTEM / AR 600-8-19, PARAGRAPH 1-20
...Issued: [18 Apr 13]...



A. ARMY REGULATION 600-8-19, ENLISTED PROMOTIONS AND REDUCTIONS, DATED 30 APR 10, RAR 27 DEC 11.


1. THIS MESSAGE NUMBER WILL EXPIRE WHEN SUPERSEDED OR RESCINDED. THIS INFORMATION WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE NEXT ITERATION OF AR 600-8-19.


2. THIS MESSAGE APPLIES TO AR 600-8-19, CHAPTER ONE, PARAGRAPH 1-20, PROMOTION OF SOLDIERS PENDING REFERRAL TO A MILITARY OCCUPATIONAL SPECIALTY MEDICAL RETENTION BOARD, MEDICAL EVALUATION BOARD, OR PHYSICAL EVALUATION BOARD. UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED, THE BELOW INFORMATION APPLIES TO ALL SOLDIERS.


3. AR 600-8-19, CHAPTER 1, PARAGRAPH 1-20 AS CURRENTLY WRITTEN IS CLARIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

A. SOLDIERS IN THE DISABILITY EVALUATION SYSTEM (DES) WHO ARE PENDING A MEDICAL FITNESS DETERMINATION REFERRAL TO A MEDICAL EVALUATION BOARD (MEB) UNDER AR 40–400, OR PHYSICAL EVALUATION BOARD (PEB) UNDER AR 635–40) REMAIN OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION CONSIDERATION, SELECTION, AND PIN-ON. THE ISSUANCE OF A PERMANENT PROFILE OF “3” OR “4” ALONE WILL NOT BE USED AS THE SOLE BASIS FOR DETERMINING PRIMARY MILITARY OCCUPATIONAL SPECIALTY (PMOS) DISQUALIFICATION. RESERVE COMPONENT SOLDIERS IN THE DES WILL NOT LOSE PROMOTABLE STATUS SOLELY BECAUSE A PROMOTION LIST EXPIRES PRIOR TO A VACANCY FOR PROMOTION BECOMING AVAILABLE.

B. SOLDIERS PREVIOUSLY CONDITIONALLY PROMOTED WHO ARE UNABLE TO MEET THE CONDITION OF THEIR PROMOTION AS A RESULT IN A FINDING OF UNFIT BY DES WILL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ADMINISTRATIVE REDUCTION (PROVIDED OTHERWISE QUALIFIED IAW THIS PARAGRAPH AND PARAGRAPH 1-10)TO RETAIN PROMOTABLE STATUS.

C. WHILE IN THE DES, SOLDIERS WILL NOT BE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN THEIR APFT OR WEAPONS QUALIFICATION FOR PROMOTION PURPOSES. FOR SEMI-CENTRALIZED PROMOTION CONSIDERATION, SELECTION, AND PIN-ON, SOLDIERS WITHIN THE DES WHO ARE UNABLE TO PERFORM AN APFT OR QUALIFY WITH A WEAPON WILL USE THEIR LAST SCORE UNTIL THEY ARE MEDICALLY CLEARED TO TAKE THE APFT OR QUALIFY WITH A WEAPON. SOLDIERS WITHIN THE DES DUE TO COMBAT-RELATED OPERATIONS WHO FAILED TO QUALIFY WITH A WEAPON OR FAILED THEIR LAST APFT WILL BE GRANTED THE MINIMUM QUALIFYING SCORE.

D. WHILE IN THE DES, SOLDIERS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO MEET THE 12 MONTH SERVICE REMAINING REQUIREMENT FOR PROMOTION TO STAFF SERGEANT (SSG).

E. PER THE PROVISIONS OF 10 USC 1372, SOLDIERS ON A PROMOTION LIST WHO ARE RETIRED FOR PHYSICAL DISABILITY (10 USCS 1201 OR 1204) OR WHO ARE PLACED ON THE TEMPORARY DISABILITY RETIRED LIST (TDRL) (10 USCS 1202 OR 1205) AT THE TIME OF RETIREMENT FOR DISABILITY WILL BE RETIRED FOR DISABILITY AT THE PROMOTION LIST GRADE. THE SOLDIER WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE DESIGNATED GRADE EFFECTIVE THE DAY BEFORE PLACEMENT ON THE RETIRED LIST OR TDRL REGARDLESS OF CUT-OFF SCORES, SEQUENCE NUMBERS, OR POSITION AVAILABILITY. IN ALL CASES, THE SOLDIER MUST OTHERWISE BE FULLY ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH PARAGRAPH 1-10. FORWARD A COPY OF THE PROMOTION AND RETIREMENT ORDERS TEN (10) DAYS PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION/RETIREMENT TO THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS, USARMY.KNOX.HRC.MBX.TAGD-JR-ENLISTED-PROMOTIONS@MAIL.MIL FOR INCLUSION INTO THE TOTAL ARMY PERSONNEL DATA BASE (TAPDB).

F. PER THE PROVISIONS OF 10 USC 1212, SOLDIERS WHO ARE ON A PROMOTION LIST AT THE TIME OF SEPARATION FOR DISABILITY WITH ENTITLEMENT TO DISABILITY SEVERANCE PAY WILL BE PAID SUCH COMPENSATION AT THE PROMOTION LIST GRADE. FURTHER, THE SOLDIER WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE DESIGNATED GRADE EFFECTIVE THE SOLDIERS SEPARATION DATE. FORWARD A COPY OF THE PROMOTION AND SEPARATION ORDERS TEN (10) DAYS PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION/SEPARATION TO THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS, USARMY.KNOX.HRC.MBX.TAGD-JR-ENLISTED-PROMOTIONS@MAIL.MIL FOR INCLUSION INTO TAPDB.

G. THE GUIDANCE AT PARAGRAPH 3E AND 3F ALSO PERTAINS TO ACTIVE ARMY SOLDIERS WHO HAVE REACHED THE TIME-IN-SERVICE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE NEXT LEVEL OF AUTOMATIC PROMOTION (PV2 TO SPC).

H. SOLDIERS DETERMINED UNFIT BY THE PHYSICAL DISABILITY EVALUATION SYSTEM (PDES) BUT APPROVED FOR CONTINUATION ON ACTIVE DUTY (COAD) OR CONTINUATION OF RESERVE DUTY (COAR) UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF AR 635–40, CHAPTER 6, ARE OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION DURING THE CONTINUATION ON ACTIVE DUTY PERIOD.

I. SOLDIERS PENDING MEDICAL RETENTION DECISION OR MEDICAL SEPARATION WILL NOT BE REMOVED FROM A PROMOTION LIST UNTIL PROMOTED OR UNTIL AFTER BEING DETERMINED FIT FOR DUTY AND AFFORDED 180 DAYS TO RETAIN PROMOTION ELIGIBILITY, PROVIDED THEY ARE OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE IAW THIS PARAGRAPH AND PARAGRAPH 1-10.
 

Sascha Roberson

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#23
As long as someone has promotion points on the ERB they will be promoted on thier medical orders. For SFC and above, the TRANSITIONS center needs a copy of the promoton orders or list.
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Veteran
#27
madmax,

Yes, this may be possible. As described below, this will not impact your retired pay, but will impact severance pay. This is from the Army PDES Info Paper, published by Army Physical Disability Agency:

"(3) Disability retirement grade: Under 10 USC 1372, the grade at which a Soldier is permanently retired for disability or placed on the TDRL is the highest of the following options: current grade; highest grade satisfactorily held; or the grade to which the Soldier would have been promoted had it not been for the disability retirement. The latter option includes those on a promotion list who have met any required cut-off score and those who have met the time requirements for an automatic promotion. For Soldiers who entered the military after
7 September 1980, retirement at promotion-list grade will have no impact on retired pay. This is because they fall under the high-36 month average of basic pay instead of final basic pay. Actual promotion is not required to be retired at promotion-list grade. However, Army enlisted promotion policy allows promotion on the last day for those whose promotion eligibility date is after the disability retirement/separation date. Officers are retired at promotion list grade without actual promotion because officer promotion law is interpreted to preclude promotion ahead of promotion eligibility date.

(4) Grade for disability severance pay: Under 10 USC 1212, the same options as described above pertain to the grade at which disability severance pay is computed. Unlike disability retirement, severance pay at promotion list grade does increase the amount of disability severance pay. Actual promotion reference promotion-list grade is the same as described for disability retirement. "
OK.... How about this situation?????

QUESTION REGARDING TDRL PAY AS EITHER AN O-4 OR AN E-5 - BIG DIFFERENCE.

SM has just been told they will retire out on TDRL as an O-4. SM rec'd approval to get O-4 at TDRL discharge.
(SM had break in service, and resumed military service after a break in service to the AR as an E-5. Got mobilized and injured while in Afghanistan as an E-5).

SM currently serving as an E-5.

SM began military service AFTER SEP 1980.

SM spent most of their career in the AR (SM DOES have a 20-year AR retirement letter) - and the majority of their time was spent as an Officer - and they were paid as an Officer.

SM has less than 7200 retirement points, but has 20-year AR retirement letter.

SM has been on AD for these past 36 months going through IDES and is being paid as an E-5.

Since SM will now be TDRL'ed (Chapter 61) as an O-4, will their TDRL pay be calculated as an O-4, or will they get TDRL pay as an E-5???

NOBODY can answer this question with a regulation, a law or anything!

Only answer so far is they will be retired under E-5 pay. Yes, they will get their rank at retirement as an O-4 on their DD-214, but they will only get TDRL paid as an E-5.

Really????

Does the Army only use the LAST 36 months PERIOD for calculation? Or, do they calculate TDRL pay based on the highest 36 months of pay they have ever recieved in their career - which for them was as an O-4 ???

Where is the law on this??? My buddy is concerned they are gonna get financially screwed as there is a BIG difference between O-4 retirement pay and E-5 retirement pay.....

SM did get the green light approval for retirement as an O-4, but what about the TDRL disability pay???

Got laws or regulations to back up what you're saying?

Thanks! My buddy is going up to JBLM in 72 hours.....

V/r,

nwlivewire
 

pittpan2005

PEB Forum Veteran
#28
10 USC 1407
(a) Use of Retired Pay Base in Computing Retired Pay.— The retired pay or retainer pay of any person entitled to that pay who first became a member of a uniformed service after September 7, 1980, is computed using the retired pay base or retainer pay base determined under this section.
(b) High-Three Average.— Except as provided in subsection (f), the retired pay base or retainer pay base of a person under this section is the person’s high-three average determined under subsection (c) or (d).
(c) Computation of High-Three Average for Members Entitled to Retired or Retainer Pay for Regular Service.—
(1) General rule.— The high-three average of a member entitled to retired or retainer pay under any provision of law other than section 1204 or 1205 orsection12731 of this title is the amount equal to—
(A) the total amount of monthly basic pay to which the member was entitled for the 36 months (whether or not consecutive) out of all the months of active service of the member for which the monthly basic pay to which the member was entitled was the highest, divided by
(B) 36.

(2) Special rule for short-term disability retirees.— In the case of a member who is entitled to retired pay under section 1201 or 1202 of this title and who has completed less than 36 months of active service, the member’s high-three average (notwithstanding paragraph (1)) is the amount equal to—
(A) the total amount of basic pay to which the member was entitled during the period of the member’s active service, divided by
(B) the number of months (including any fraction thereof) of the member’s active service.

(3) Special Rule for Reserve Component Members.— In the case of a member of a reserve component who is entitled to retired pay under section 1201 or 1202 of this title, the member’s high-three average (notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2)) is computed in the same manner as prescribed in paragraphs (2) and (3) of subsection (d) for a member entitled to retired pay under section 1204 or 1205 of this title.

(d) Computation of High-Three Average for Members and Former Members Entitled to Retired Pay for Nonregular Service.—
(1) Retired pay under chapter 1223.— The high-three average of a member or former member entitled to retired pay under section 12731 of this title is the amount equal to—
(A) the total amount of monthly basic pay to which the member or former member was entitled during the member or former member’s high-36 months (or to which the member or former member would have been entitled if the member or former member had served on active duty during the entire period of the member or former member’s high-36 months), divided by
(B) 36.

(2) Nonregular service disability retired pay.— The high-three average of a member entitled to retired pay under section 1204 or 1205 of this title is the amount equal to—
(A) the total amount of monthly basic pay to which the member was entitled during the member’s high-36 months (or to which the member would have been entitled if the member had served on active duty during the entire period of the member’s high-36 months), divided by
(B) 36.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#29
Just to piggyback on this post:

(1) General rule.— The high-three average of a member entitled to retired or retainer pay under any provision of law other than section 1204 or 1205 orsection12731 of this title is the amount equal to—
(A) the total amount of monthly basic pay to which the member was entitled for the 36 months (whether or not consecutive) out of all the months of active service of the member for which the monthly basic pay to which the member was entitled was the highest, divided by
(B) 36.
.
That is the answer in red. The highest- which would presumably be the O4 pay- is what will be applied.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#30
Though, I probably am as guilty for not addressing this before, the previous few posts are a different issue than promotion. Best to start your own threads on different questions/issues. Sometimes, the other questions will be answered. Other times, they may be missed. Either way, it can make searching the forums difficult when different issues are raised in the same thread.
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Veteran
#31
Though, I probably am as guilty for not addressing this before, the previous few posts are a different issue than promotion. Best to start your own threads on different questions/issues. Sometimes, the other questions will be answered. Other times, they may be missed. Either way, it can make searching the forums difficult when different issues are raised in the same thread.
Sorry Forum members.

My bad...... got spaced out.

V/r,
nwlivewire
 

WOLFPACK78

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#34
So I just got the email that I will be up for promotion to E7 for the 2015 board. The board convenes on June 2nd, and my retirement date is June 2nd. I'm being medically retired. So since I'm considered for promotion will I get the promotion on the last day or will I have to make it on the promotion list with a sequence number? I'm confused.
 

scoutCC

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#35
No, you'd retire as a E-6

(1) The grade or rank in which he is serving on the date when his name is placed on the temporary disability retired list or, if his name was not carried on that list, on the date when he is retired.

You wouldn't yet be serving as an E-7

(2) The highest temporary grade or rank in which he served satisfactorily, as determined by the Secretary of the armed force from which he is retired.

You haven't been frocked as an E-7

(3) The permanent regular or reserve grade to which he would have been promoted had it not been for the physical disability for which he is retired and which was found to exist as a result of a physical examination.

These requirements reflect you having been selected, i.e. having a sequence number, AND your sequence number coming up (similar to making points). Then you wouldn't be able to fulfill the SRR for promotion due to disability, but they'll give it to you anyway.

(4) The temporary grade to which he would have been promoted had it not been for the physical disability for which he is retired, if eligibility for that promotion was required to be based on cumulative years of service or years of service in grade and the disability was discovered as a result of a physical examination.

I.e. a conditional promotion to E5 that you weren't able to attend WLC.
 

WOLFPACK78

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#36
So Transition had me send all the emails for the board to them. They are telling me that now my DD214 will reflect E7 since I was in a promotion status at retirement. Does this sound right or is it setting me up for a fubar 214 down the road?
 

tony292

PEB Forum Veteran
#37
So this will almost definitely apply to me, my MAJ board was this APR and results were supposed to be out in JUL, then AUG and now it changed again to OCT. So my question is, when exactly does ones name have to be on a promotion list? I can get to the end of OCT with terminal leave and permissive TDY and all that. if my name comes out on the list while on terminal leave, does that count?
 

tony292

PEB Forum Veteran
#39
If you are Army, email a copy of the list to your TRANSPOC point of contact. This will be the very last 90 days and happen after the peb. Don't try to contact them sooner as they wont deal with you until the peb is complete.

I emailed them a copy of my MAJ list and I was promoted. It was a pretty easy process.
 

edgkennedy

Registered Member
#40
If I had gone to my board and gotten my points and then was medically discharged before going through PLDC can I petition to be promoted from e-4 to e-5?