VASRD Schedule of ratings—musculoskeletal system - The Spine

Discussion in 'Linked VA Schedule for Rating Disabilities (VASRD)' started by Jason Perry, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. rkeen78

    rkeen78 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    That's not the case. How to explain this? The least pain I feel is at 90 degrees, touching my toes. The further I go UP to a standing position, the more it hurts. So, bending down actually decreases the pain, because at standing upright, I'm already well within the pain range, because I shouldn't be standing upright to begin with if the goal is to minimize pain.
     
  2. hawkdrivermtp

    hawkdrivermtp PEB Forum Veteran

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    Well it would seem that you would have no ROM to measure if you are already in pain. I have no idea how this would be rated. Hopefully someone sees this thread who knows the answer. If you can show them you can go all the way to almost touching your toes from a standing position, it seems like they would rate it how they see it. There is probably only one way they measure the ROM of the spine, but then again there might be an alternative way that we don't know of.
     
  3. Jason Perry

    Jason Perry Benevolent Leader Site Founder Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

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    I have two quick fire responses. First, it would seem that since they start at 0 degrees (normally, though, there are exceptions if your anatomy is such that this is not possible), your pain would also start at 0 degree from what you stated. Second, for unusual situations, they are supposed to refer the condition to Director, Compensation & Pension service for an extraschedular rating. My instinct, though, is that the first point likely adeqauately covers your condition, so that should be sufficient for rating purposes.

    Interesting question, one that would depend heavily on the facts of your case. I am not sure I have a full picture, but I think I understand enough to offer the above thoughts.
     
  4. rkeen78

    rkeen78 PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Thanks for the input guys :)
     
  5. hawkdrivermtp

    hawkdrivermtp PEB Forum Veteran

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    It seems like that ROM would be maxed out! I mean, if someone is paraized, they can't really bend over. I know the OP can bend but I would tell him to stop at the moment of pain!
     
  6. Jason Perry

    Jason Perry Benevolent Leader Site Founder Staff Member PEB Forum Veteran

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    If the examiner is correctly documenting the ROM, what should happen is that the person should move through their entire range range of motion, but the examiner should be documenting the point when pain begins and add that point as the point when the ROM is limited. Technically, I don't think that a person is supposed to stop at the initial point of pain, but that point should be documented as additional limitation of ROM. However, many examiners do not correctly document the ROM as limited by pain, so I understand the idea of saying someone should stop when pain starts.

    Inadequate or incorrectly done exams are a huge issue in incorrect ratings.
     
  7. hawkdrivermtp

    hawkdrivermtp PEB Forum Veteran

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    I can definitely attest to what Jason just mentioned. Not so much my spine but it appeared to be so with my feet. At no time was it documented anywhere where the pain began. It's one of the items I have to appeal for the VA when I file my additional claim. I know a lot more now than I did them, so I'm prepared to know what is right and what isn't.
     
  8. usmcssgtva

    usmcssgtva PEB Forum Veteran

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    My package is now off to the PEB and I was able to look at the C&P ROM numbers for my referred condition of lumbar spondylosis:

    Flexion was 0-10 degrees, pain throughout ROM
    Extension was 0-15 degrees, pain throughout ROM
    Right Lateral Bend was 0-25 degrees, pain starts at 15 degrees
    Left Lateral Bend was 0-30 degrees, pain starts at 25 degrees
    Right Rotation was 0-25 degrees, pain starts at 15 degrees
    Left Rotation was 0-25 degrees, pain starts at 10 degrees

    Based on my understanding of the VASRD section for the spine, I should be at 40% for my back due to "forward flexion of the thoracolumbar spine 30 degrees or less"? Am I missing something here or does this sound correct? Thank you!
     
  9. klamsnacks

    klamsnacks PEB Forum Veteran

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    actually no, it's a combined rating
     
  10. usmcssgtva

    usmcssgtva PEB Forum Veteran

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    Klam, I'm not following you. Can you please explain or give me a heads up to where I can look into this? I learn something new on this site just about everyday but I thought that under the ratings for the spine I was covered:

    Unfavorable ankylosis of the entire cervical spine; or, forward flexion
    of the thoracolumbar spine 30 degrees or less; or, favorable ankylosis of
    the entire thoracolumbar spine..................................................................... 40
     
  11. usmcssgtva

    usmcssgtva PEB Forum Veteran

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    My package is now off to the PEB and I was able to look at the C&P ROM numbers for my referred condition of lumbar spondylosis:

    Flexion was 0-10 degrees, pain throughout ROM
    Extension was 0-15 degrees, pain throughout ROM
    Right Lateral Bend was 0-25 degrees, pain starts at 15 degrees
    Left Lateral Bend was 0-30 degrees, pain starts at 25 degrees
    Right Rotation was 0-25 degrees, pain starts at 15 degrees
    Left Rotation was 0-25 degrees, pain starts at 10 degrees

    Based on my understanding of the VASRD section for the spine, I should be at 40% for my back due to "forward flexion of the thoracolumbar spine 30 degrees or less"? Am I missing something here or does this sound correct? Thank you!

    Bump.
     
  12. reconranger

    reconranger PEB Forum Regular Member

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    RANGER, here need some help with determining ROM %. Viewed the Electronic Code of Federal Regulation. Still lost

    C-Spine
    Flexion 0 to 40
    Extension 0 to 10
    lateral flexion 0 to 30
    Lateral rotation to left 0 to 40
    Lateral flexion 0 to 20
    Lateral rotation to the right 0 to 50

    THORACOLUMAR
    Flexion 0 to 45
    Extension 0 to 10
    Left lateral Flexion 0 to 10
    Left Lateral Rotation 0 to 20
    Right lateral Flexion 0 to 15
    Right Lateral Rotation 0 to 10



    SHOULDER
    Left flexion 0 to 130
    Left Abduction 0 to 150
    Left Internal Rotation 0 to 90
    Left external Rotation 0 to 70

    ELBROW
    Left flexion 0 to 145
    Left extension 0 to 0
    Left pronation 0 to 85
    Left supination 0 to 85

    WRIST
    Left Dorsiflexion 0 to 70
    Left Palmar Flexion 0 to 60
    Left Radial Deviation 0 to 20
    Left Ulnar Deviation 0 to 45

    Right Dorsiflexion 0 to 70
    Right Palmar Flexion 0 to 80
    Right Radial Deviation 0 to 20
    Right Ulnar Deviation 0 to 45

    ANKLE
    Left Dorsiflexion 0 to 10
    Left Plantar 0 to 35
    Right Dorsiflexion 0 to 20
    Left Plantar 0 to 45
     
  13. TJkick

    TJkick PEB Forum Veteran

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    Can someone help me. I can't understand where I stand on the ratings.

    For cervical I had flexion-30;Extension-30; left lateral flex-15; right lateral flex-15; Left rotation-35; right rotation-45

    For Thoracolumber I had flexion-55; extension-10; left lateral flex-10; right lateral flex-20; left lateral rotation-25; right lateral rotation-45

    What did this mean to me on ratings? All had pain with motions and I have multiple bulging discs. Thank you
     
  14. Glen Hogoboom

    Glen Hogoboom PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Hello everyone, I am new here. I just got a favorable decision from the BVA. It has been 4 long years, and I gave up long ago, then out of the blue my appeal completely reverses the previous decision. I am 58, and my time of service was in the Marine Corps, as enlisted 1977, and officer from 1981-1985.

    Although the decision is 11 pages, in short it says "Order: Entitlement to service connection for ankylosing spondylitis of the cervical spine is granted." And of course now it goes back to the regional office, where I suspect it goes in for rating?

    Now I am quite excited to guess what rating I might get. My appeal began in December of 2008. My condition is confirmed (by private and VA doctors) as alternatley DDD, severe cervical spine reduced ROM, otitis pubis, with fused C5-C7, with the primary being ankylosing spondylitis.

    I have less than 5% range of motion in any direction with my neck. And I am on Social Security Disability since 2002. In looking at the ratintg tables I just don't have a clue! I have had at least 2 complete C&P examinations at the VA. one at the outset, and then another after I appealed, so I doubt they will do another.

    Sorry to be so long in this post, but can anyone guess at what my rating might be, and how long it might take? To complicate matters a little, I was also originally granted a 0 percent rating for hydradenitis, and the BVA remanded that issue for further development as to whether it may be compensable, and "that claim must be afforded expeditious treatment."

    If I should be posting this somewhere else, anyone please let me know. I did not see an option to start a new post.
     
  15. Airforcematt

    Airforcematt PEB Forum Veteran

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    Hi Glen :) the info you are looking for is in the first post of this thread. If your cervical ROM was <15% then you should be getting at least 30% disability, possibly 40% depending on how they rate the ankylosing spondylitis. Relevant portions of the text is quoted below. Congrats on getting your benefits at long last!

     
  16. Glen Hogoboom

    Glen Hogoboom PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Thanks usaf1.:) I did look at the detail in the first post. And I hope for more than 40%, but you are probably right. What a nice thing it was to read the VLJ decision, who completely disagreed with everything that happened in the last 4 years, and who specifically pointed out their errors but concluded "...such error was harmless and will not be further discussed."

    It is like I am a kid right now, and it is Christmas Eve, but when will the morning ever come?
     
  17. Airforcematt

    Airforcematt PEB Forum Veteran

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    I'm still on active duty pending a PEB but I can certainly identify with you on the "waiting for morning" feeling. Hang in there and feel free to vent/ask for advice on here. This place has been awesome in helping keep me sane and it's a wealth of information :)
     
  18. Glen Hogoboom

    Glen Hogoboom PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Thanks again usaf1. What is a PEB? I wish I had been more proactive back in the early 80's when I was on active duty. But as a Lieutenant in the Marine Corps, complaining about pain was not a wise thing to do. Oddly enough I am having knee surgery at the VA Hospital on Wednesday.
     
  19. Airforcematt

    Airforcematt PEB Forum Veteran

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    Glen - PEB stands for Physical Evaluation board. First comes the MEB (Medical Evaluation Board), then comes the IPEB (Informal Physical Evaluation Board), then if you choose to appeal you can go to the FPEB (Formal Physical Evaluation Board) - Probably more than you wanted to know but there it is :) I'm starting the MEB portion (early phases) now.

    Good luck with your Knee surgery!
     
  20. Glen Hogoboom

    Glen Hogoboom PEB Forum Regular Member

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    Does anyone here have any experience with 38 CFR 4.16 - Total disability ratings for compensation based on unemployability of the individual? It appears to be another way to increase ratings over and above the ratings tables, and also appears to be a relatively new revision of the regulations.

    I see I also made a mistake in describing the cervical spine as C5-C7, when it is C3-C7. I wonder if a vet needs to be proactive after a grant is awarded? I mean should I be corresponding or calling as to the rating progress, or might that involvement just potentially cause a delay?
     

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