AGR/Technician

[Yukon777]

I’m currently an AGR and just got entered into the duty DES system. I have 34.5 years total service, approximately 8200 total points of which approximately 7500 points count towards retirement. I’m sitting around 15 years total TAFMS time. Additionally, I’m technically still a dual status technician on LWOP (around 4 years now).

If I understand correctly, if I’m found unfit with a rating of 0%, I would qualify for retirement where I would get paid immediately; if my VA rating is over 50% I get both. Is this correct???

Would I qualify for a federal disability as a dual status technician even if I have been on military LWOP for a few years?

Thanks

 

[RonG]

If you qualify for a regular retirement with 7200 points or more AND have a VA disability rating of 50% or more AND have agreed to waive retired pay dollar for dollar in the amount of VA compensation received, then you would be entitled to CRDP which allows for concurrent receipt.

The formula for your CRDP would be active duty equivalent years x 2.5% x average high three base pay = longevity portion of retired pay.

The 2.5% becomes 2.0% if you accepted the blended retired system.

The high three retirement mentioned above becomes the final pay retirement if your initial date of entry into service prior to September 8, 1980. It is better in my opinion.

Some others are invited to comment on the 7200 points (or more) issue. @SFC H @Guardguy11 @macjac69 and anyone else who has guard/reserve expertise.

Ron

 

[Yukon777]

I’m an AF guy but the Army Summary does a pretty decent job covering what duty counts toward the 20 years of service requirement (7200 points).

DoD Disability Retired Pay

Summary
The Department of Defense (DoD) compensates Soldiers who are retired for physical disability (Title 10 USC Ch. 61). The Secretary of the Army (SA) may retire a regular component Soldier who is deemed physically unfit to perform their duties as the result of an injury incurred in the line of duty. To qualify for disability retirement, the Soldier must have completed at least 20 years of creditable service , in accordance with 10 USC 1208, or have service-connected disabilities that caused the Soldier to be unfit for duty and amount to a combined disability rating of 30 percent or more. The 20-year threshold established by 10 USC 1208 includes Reserve "equivalent duty service" (the product of the Soldier's membership and Inactive Duty Training (IDT) points divided by 360). This service is applicable to Regular Soldiers with former Reserve Service.

The AF says he same thing:

AFI36-3212
3.17.2. Permanent Disability Retirement. Applies to service members who have been found unfit, the condition is stable and permanent, and the total disability rating is 30 percent or greater or the service member has 20 years or more service computed under 10 U.S.C. § 1208 regardless of the combined compensable disability rating.

Title 10 U.S.C. § 1208
(a)For the purposes of this chapter, a member of a regular component shall be credited with the service described in paragraph (1) or that described in paragraph (2), whichever is greater:
(1)The service that he is considered to have for the purpose of separation, discharge, or retirement for length of service.
(2) The sum of—
(A) his active service as a member of the armed forces, a nurse, a reserve nurse, a contract surgeon, a contract dental surgeon, or an acting dental surgeon;
(B) his active service as a member of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or the Public Health Service; and
(C) his service while participating in exercises or performing duties under sections 502, 503, 504, and 505 of title 32.

Title 32
32 U.S. Code § 502 - Required drills and field exercises

32 U.S. Code § 503 - Participation in field exercises

32 U.S. Code § 504 - National Guard schools and small arms competitions

32 U.S. Code § 505 - Army and Air Force schools and field exercises


ANGI36-2001
3.2. Inactive Duty Training (IDT). IDT consists of attendance at regularly scheduled drills, additional IDT periods, and voluntary IDT. IDT provides individual or unit readiness training to ANG members. 32 U.S. Code § 502, 37 U.S. Code § 206(e), DoDI 1215.06 and DoDI 1215.13 establish basic policies and governing authority for conducting IDT. IAW 37 USC Section 206 (d) (1-2) IDT may not be used for correspondence courses, to include electronic-based distributed learning.

DODI 1215.06
a. IDT. IDT consists of attendance at regularly scheduled unit training periods (regularly scheduled drills), additional IDT periods, and voluntary IDT.

From the 15 year Pre-retirement Brief (Ohio)
1405 Time – IDT points earned while a member of the Reserve Component used to increase the percentage of base pay multiplier of a Regular retirement.
• Used to determine Non-regular retirement eligibility
• For regular retirement the points count AFTER acquiring 20 years of active service
• May be used to reach 20 years of active service for disability retirements.
• Points cannot exceed 365/366 points total per retirement year

 

[Yukon777]

I’m trying to get smart on this stuff, the questions I have asked medical and/or personnel have gone unanswered or have been answered wrong.

CRDP and CRSC continue to confuse me even after reading everything I can find on this site. Seems like a lot depends on how things go as I work through the DES process.

This is all I have been able to find (an old reference) that talks about the possibility of being eligible for some federal disability as a dual status technician even though I have been on military LWOP for almost 4 years. My technician position was converted to an AGR resource. Can’t find anything that clarifies it or discusses how a military disability and federal disability work together?

Rights and Benefits of Reservists Called to Active Duty | CHCOC

chcoc.gov

7. RETIREMENT. An employee who is placed in a LWOP status while performing active military duty continues to be covered by the retirement law--i.e., the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) or the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). Death benefits will be paid as if he or she were still in the civilian position. If the employee becomes disabled for his or her civilian position during the LWOP and has the minimum amount of civilian service necessary for title to disability benefits (5 years for CSRS, 18 months for FERS), the employee will become entitled to disability benefits under the retirement law. Upon eventual retirement from civilian service, the period of military service is creditable under either CSRS or FERS, subject to the rules for crediting military service.

 

[RonG]

Hello @Yukon777

Ref: "CRDP and CRSC continue to confuse me even after reading everything I can find on this site. Seems like a lot depends on how things go as I work through the DES process."

Yes, the final result provides the path.

1. Most retirees who receive CRDP did not go through the DoD disability process. They are regular or TERA retirees. Many who receive CRSC did not go through the program with, including me.

2. The requirements for CRSC are clearly outlined here: A Supplement to CRSC Information <---LINK

3. The requirements for CRDP:
Eligibility
You must be eligible for retired pay to qualify for CRDP. If you were placed on a disability retirement, but would be eligible for military retired pay in the absence of the disability, you may be entitled to receive CRDP.

Under these rules, you may be entitled to CRDP if…

• you are a regular retiree with a VA disability rating of 50 percent or greater.
  
• you are a reserve retiree with 20 qualifying years of service, who has a VA disability rating of 50 percent or greater and who has reached retirement age. (In most cases the retirement age for reservists is 60, but certain reserve retirees may be eligible before they turn 60. If you are a member of the Ready Reserve, your retirement age can be reduced below age 60 by three months for each 90 days of active service you have performed during a fiscal year.)
  
• you are retired under Temporary Early Retirement Act (TERA) and have a VA disability rating of 50 percent or greater.
  
• you are a disability retiree who earned entitlement to retired pay under any provision of law other than solely by disability, and you have a VA disability rating of 50 percent or greater. You might become eligible for CRDP at the time you would have become eligible for retired pay. [comment: In other words, the disability retiree must have qualified under one of the three areas that precede this "bullet" or paragraph.

Ron

 

[Guardguy11]

Your post confuses me. I’m not sure how you can get 7500 points towards retirement but only have 15 years TFAMS. I didn’t think that was possible. You should get 1 point per day, or 4 per drill weekend for a max of 48 drill points per year.

What am I missing? Once you hit 7200 points, the whole point system really doesn’t matter any longer. You become eligible for an active duty retirement at which point your percentage becomes the High-3 for your pay grade and years of service.

I’ve never even seen someone with 8200 points because the only people that would get that many “points” are active duty people that don’t get points anyway.

 

[Chalk22]

8200 points is only 22 years of AD. The 7200 mark might mean something for Chapter 61 but it doesn’t get you an AD retirement. The points from IDTs don’t count until after you have 20 years (not 7200 points) of AD. I am confused, though, by the statement that only 7500 of the 8200 count towards retirement. Once you are eligible, they all count.

 

[RonG]

8200 points is only 22 years of AD. The 7200 mark might mean something for Chapter 61 but it doesn’t get you an AD retirement. The points from IDTs don’t count until after you have 20 years (not 7200 points) of AD. I am confused, though, by the statement that only 7500 of the 8200 count towards retirement. Once you are eligible, they all count.

Hello @Chalk22 cc: @Guardguy11

Some of this is outside my expertise as I was a regular retiree with 22.75 years of active duty (and another 2.5 years for pay purposes while active).

There are several people who visit this board occasionally who retired with 7200 points or more and although they had not met the reserve/NG age requirement, they began receiving CRDP for their approved RC retirement. I don't have their names handy, but I believe @SFC H is one of them. @macjac69 might be another.

Ron

edited to add:
Post in PEB Forum by @macjac69

• Feb 9, 2019

FWIW, I was a Guardsman, did just shy of 10 years regular Army, and got lucky enough to do 5 years of title 10 that combined with all my other ADT, AT, schools, etc. boosted me to over 7200 retirement points which going thru IDES I was credited with 20 YOS. Receive CDRP.

 

[Yukon777]

8200 points is only 22 years of AD. The 7200 mark might mean something for Chapter 61 but it doesn’t get you an AD retirement. The points from IDTs don’t count until after you have 20 years (not 7200 points) of AD. I am confused, though, by the statement that only 7500 of the 8200 count towards retirement. Once you are eligible, they all count.

Over the last 35 years the amount of inactive duty time that could count toward retirement has changed.

• Reserve year ends on or after 30 Oct 2007: max of 130 Points
• Reserve year ends on or after 29 Oct 2000: max of 90 Points
• Reserve year ends on or after 23 Sep 1996: max of 75 Points
• Before 23 Sep 1996: max of 60 Points

Im an enlisted flyer so as a guardsman I got 48 additional Inactive duty points ( you can do 72 periods now) in addition to the normal duty that every guardsman gets, early on, due to the cap a lot of the points didn’t count. I have been very active (easy for an enlisted flyer) for my entire career so the points have accumulated.

The only reason I mentioned the points, understandping I don’t really know what I’m talking about, is that they factor in to me not needing to be found 30% disabled by the DOD to qualify for an immediate payment, at least I hope so?

 

[Guardguy11]

Yukon,
Thanks for the info. I was unaware of the IDT point stuff.

To answer your question, if you fall into the IDES chapter 61 retirement, your points won't matter. The DOD percentage will be based off of the VA rating for your unfitting condition(s).

 

[RonG]

Yukon,
Thanks for the info. I was unaware of the IDT point stuff.

To answer your question, if you fall into the IDES chapter 61 retirement, your points won't matter. The DOD percentage will be based off of the VA rating for your unfitting condition(s).

@Guardguy11

Excellent.

Points: If the same service member qualifies for RC retirement upon reaching the age requirement, he/she can apply for RC retirement ~6 months prior to attainment. The approval would trigger CRDP if the person is otherwise qualified.

Puzzling: What happens if the same person has 7200 creditable for retirement points and a 20-year letter? Anecdotal evidence seems to point toward an immediate RA-type retirement if I understand the process (and discussions on this board) correctly.

Ron

 

[Guardguy11]

@Guardguy11

Excellent.

Points: If the same service member qualifies for RC retirement upon reaching the age requirement, he/she can apply for RC retirement ~6 months prior to attainment. The approval would trigger CRDP if the person is otherwise qualified.

Puzzling: What happens if the same person has 7200 creditable for retirement points and a 20-year letter? Anecdotal evidence seems to point toward an immediate RA-type retirement if I understand the process (and discussions on this board) correctly.

Ron

It's a unique situation for sure. I was under the impression that if you hit 7200 points at any point in your Guard career the balloons drop from the ceiling and the come out from hiding with the big immediate retirement check.

 

[Yukon777]

@Guardguy11

Excellent.

Points: If the same service member qualifies for RC retirement upon reaching the age requirement, he/she can apply for RC retirement ~6 months prior to attainment. The approval would trigger CRDP if the person is otherwise qualified.

Puzzling: What happens if the same person has 7200 creditable for retirement points and a 20-year letter? Anecdotal evidence seems to point toward an immediate RA-type retirement if I understand the process (and discussions on this board) correctly.

Ron

As a guardsman you still have to wait till 60 (or the reduced age based on deployments after 2008) to get paid unless you have 20 yrs active duty. The inactive duty points only count toward meeting the 20 year threshold in the disability process if I’m reading the references I posted earlier correctly.

 

[RonG]

As a guardsman you still have to wait till 60 (or the reduced age based on deployments after 2008) to get paid unless you have 20 yrs active duty. The inactive duty points only count toward meeting the 20 year threshold in the disability process if I’m reading the references I posted earlier correctly.

Hello @Yukon777 and @Guardguy11

This is a unicorn I have been chasing for years.

For the "what it is worth column:" I have spoken directly with individuals who have told me that they qualified for immediate retirement with >=7200 points and the age requirement had not been achieved. They were receiving CRDP. Another did not have any disabilities so they received straight retired pay without a waiver.
Ron

 

[Yukon777]

Hello @Yukon777 and @Guardguy11

This is a unicorn I have been chasing for years.

For the "what it is worth column:" I have spoken directly with individuals who have told me that they qualified for immediate retirement with >=7200 points and the age requirement had not been achieved. They were receiving CRDP. Another did not have any disabilities so they received straight retired pay without a waiver.
Ron

Thanks,

I know several as well, alot of it depends on status. If you are close and go on orders they typically make you sign a waiver stating even though you exceed the number of points you agree you won’t be eligible to retire (you can retire any time after the 20 year letter, I mean get paid) until you get to 60. There are exceptions (mobilization, you take an AGR position, etc). They do whatever they can to make you wait till 60. If it was just getting to that magical number I would have been gone a while ago. It’s definitely more complicated than it should be.

 

[Chalk22]

As a guardsman you still have to wait till 60 (or the reduced age based on deployments after 2008) to get paid unless you have 20 yrs active duty. The inactive duty points only count toward meeting the 20 year threshold in the disability process if I’m reading the references I posted earlier correctly.

1405 time allows IDT to be counted for AD retirement but cannot be used to obtain eligibility.