Can i be demoted for PT failure while going through an MEB?

[AmyGallay]

Hint" the words Permament Execemption is what is means...EXCEMPTION is not permitted to do something. i.e. Fitness Test/Fitness Assessment.

I completey understand what exemption means.
But you need to see it is the two words together that changes who the reg pertains to.
A permanent exemption is completely different than just a plain exemption, so this reg is only directed at a miniscule number of service members in the large pool that is exempt.

I've read and reread it numerous times and have needed guidance on interpreting different parts due to the nature of the wording.

 

[AmyGallay]

Best of luck to you. I explained this to the best of my ability.

I wasn't saying it to put you down or anything. I was just trying to show you who fits into this small portion of the reg. To make you aware you may need to look in another part of the reg.


I hope your defense council can make what you want happen.

 

[AmyGallay]

Proto-

Do what I said before:

Volunteer go to the HAWK and have them put you on the weight program. They will give you a diet, allow you to do pt through them everyday during duty hours. It'll show you are trying your hardest. I have seen Commanders see their troops do this and they give them extensions because they are doing everything in their power and are having improvements.

I have seen Commanders use their discretion and be more leinent. Everything from an extension, pt test postponement, to just an LOR with no UIF. Show them you are doing everything in your control.

When a commander always gives an UIF and Article 15 for the forth test, that is usually because that was what was directed by the base commander, not your squadron/group commander. So do not feel your people are against you. And your MEB should be done before what happened will even affect you in the end.

And like I said before. Keep in touch with me through email. I will help you through the process as much as I can. I have been there, we have the same conditions and we are coming from the same base and Command.

You will get through this. Promise.

 

[pittpan2005]

Amy,
You stated a permanent profile is not granted until the MEB returns a SM to duty. If a SM has an MEB and is forwarded to the PEB, can a permanent profile be granted at the point or is it considered temporary? You raised a great point I didn't know or consider.

 

[AmyGallay]

Amy,
You stated a permanent profile is not granted until the MEB returns a SM to duty. If a SM has an MEB and is forwarded to the PEB, can a permanent profile be granted at the point or is it considered temporary? You raised a great point I didn't know or consider.

Do you mean if they have a formal hearing?

 

[AmyGallay]

The MEB are the ones that decide what is beneficial to the military.

They decide to: A) Fit- return to duty
B) retrained - return to duty
C) perm profile - return to duty
D) allow discharge- through seperation or med/reg retirement

 

[AmyGallay]

PEB is usually only if the service member is D) allow discharge- through seperation or med/reg retirement

If a member can prove themselves to be fit, they can return to duty (normally their regular AFSC.)

But B and C is mainly found in the MEB before the PEB.

Does this make sense to you? or I can try to explain it differently.

 

[ranger2992]

Is a perm profile not the reason for going through MEB/PEB? In the Army a P3 (perm profile) almost always requires an MEB/PEB. The permanent EXEMPTION you guys have been discussing would be something that would have to go pretty high up for approval I would assume.

Anyway, great discussion from different points.

 

[AmyGallay]

Yes, completely!

I just meant that the perm profile is decided at the MEB stage and not the PEB stage.

 

[AmyGallay]

A perm exemption doesn't go high up. It is just decided by the command you're in that you can still do your job, even with that medical problem. Where a new canadite wouldn't even get the option.

 

[ranger2992]

A perm exemption doesn't go high up. It is just decided by the command you're in that you can still do your job, even with that medical problem. Where a new canadite wouldn't even get the option.

Gotcha!...wasn't sure, but it makes sense. In the Army, the PCM initiates a P3 and then a profiling officer, usually an O-6, approves.

 

[pittpan2005]

PEB is usually only if the service member is D) allow discharge- through seperation or med/reg retirement

If a member can prove themselves to be fit, they can return to duty (normally their regular AFSC.)

But B and C is mainly found in the MEB before the PEB.

Does this make sense to you? or I can try to explain it differently.

It makes sense. How I worded the question wasn't clear.

What I was trying to figure out was if D, in your example above, can a SM receive a permanent profile by the MEB that also referred them to a PEB?

 

[pittpan2005]

I was the Limdu coordinator a few years back for a Marine unit so not exactly up to date, but trying to learn more of the profiling differences across the branches. The Army seems relatively straight forward, but often the AF makes my head spin.

Really appreciate the info.

 

[AmyGallay]

I was the Limdu coordinator a few years back for a Marine unit so not exactly up to date, but trying to learn more of the profiling differences across the branches. The Army seems relatively straight forward, but often the AF makes my head spin.

Really appreciate the info.

Oh my goodness. It took two years of me being a Unit PTL to understand it all. I was defending personnel left and right, and had to get a lot of the "precise wording" of the reg explained to me by my Physical Therapists (approving base PT profiles), my Shirt, and even my Squadron Commander, explaining why he was making the decisions he made.

I really was just trying to say how specific the two lines of this reg was, that it did not fit to members in the process of an MEB, but those finished with a permanent profile.

 

[AmyGallay]

It makes sense. How I worded the question wasn't clear.

What I was trying to figure out was if D, in your example above, can a SM receive a permanent profile by the MEB that also referred them to a PEB?

A service member can be found fitting with a permanent profile. However, it is usually given to those that the military knows is not going to be deployable before they finish their service. That is why those with a couple years left are given the permanent profile. The members have two years left, not hitting their "window" 12 months or more, and would not be able to deploy due to their retainablity. All the perm profiles I have encountered were E6 and E7 with 2 years left and perm exempt from run, or an O5 who's state side job (centcom, socom, jcse, marcent) would not allow them to deploy anyway, however they were upset because they were not promotable because of this either...

 

[AmyGallay]

I was the Limdu coordinator a few years back for a Marine unit so not exactly up to date, but trying to learn more of the profiling differences across the branches. The Army seems relatively straight forward, but often the AF makes my head spin.

Really appreciate the info.

It is possible. I have seen a few get cross trained. Unfortuantly they have to fit a few "unofficial" criteria. Not a first termer, at least a second termer, good evals, seen to be a lifer or pursuing a commission, exceptional recommendation from chain, but they would have to be aware that they cannot be promote past their current rank. The regs are strict that you must be "satisfactory" in all components of your PT test to be promotable. So where they will not "punish" you as the regs say, with a permanent profile, you will forever be stuck in your current rank. Therefore the issue of "tenure" comes into affect for those who are not an NCO.

That is why it is only seen in the top 3...

 

[pittpan2005]

Great info. Thanks Amy. Now that I have dismantled/hijacked this thread, sorry all, maybe we can open a new topic and have a good solid breakdown of the profiling and its implications.

 

[AmyGallay]

One more tidbit...

Those currently going thru a MEB, if you have a "line-number" or accepted for promotion to your higher rank, and do not put it on before your retirement date, you will be retired at that higher rank

Hence those going thru a MEB are not on a perm profile or this would not be allowable.

 

[AmyGallay]

Great info. Thanks Amy. Now that I have dismantled/hijacked this thread, sorry all, maybe we can open a new topic and have a good solid breakdown of the profiling and its implications.

Maybe you could start a post explaining some of the medical terminology?

A waiver (duty related restrictions), exemption (two differing kinds: duty orPT-temporary), permanent waiver (allowing to do your duty with a contraindicating condition-permanent for whole career with 12 to 18 month reassessments), profile (two: one for PT/ a second for duty limitations- temporary- many believe they are one and the same.A PT profile can not be generated without a duty profile and cannot happen vice versa. Also, the service members need to keep a close eye on expiration dates, as they are different on each and an expired duty profile can cancel out a current pt profile due to what was just stated and they have differing approving officials on the medical side. Your PCM can initiate both, however your PT profile can be trumped and changed by the base physical therapist or exercisologist, who reviews all for the base and gives the last official approval) permanent exemption (after complete MEB-permanent excusal from one or more component of PT test for rest of career, however keeps you non promotable as you can never aquire an"overall" satisfactory as it will show a partial exempt and this is why they have changed the EPRs to reflect this also, also makes you non deployable), permanent profile- (permanent duty related restrictions). ect

Non med group service members tend to use these phrases interchangably. Each is completely differing and have different regs and requirements. It may clear up some issues of wording, regs, and requirements obtaining each. I have seen many service members repeatedly try to fight for or against any one of these items using the incorrect regs and requirements, due to interchangably using these phrases. It might show some going thru the MEB a little more clarity.

 

[porto]

i don't mind the hijacking of this thread i started, not at all! the more you know! small update, i met with my PEBLO for initial interview, and my commander has to write a letter to her, and then we go from there, honestly with all my worries,
things seem to be looking up generally! i thank everyone on this thread for your inputs, and i will post any more updates as time passes and this process chugs along pretty heartening to have this kind of forum for those who stress a lot over the little things!