Chapter 18

gimartin

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I am a active duty SSG with 14+ years TIS. I am running the possibility of a Chapter 18 discharge. I do have A LOT of medical issues none of which my provider seems fit to initiate an MEB for (I am currently fighting that issue daily and have another thread dealing with that). I am preparing myself for the worst case in that he does not start an MEB and I end up with a Chapter 18. Having said that, am I right in saying that I will receive half separation pay and be able to go through the VA for the possibility of disability pay?

On the other hand, if I continue to fight it out and end up with a medical retirement/discharge, I will receive the same VA disability and no severance pay, is that right? Actually I am unsure as to the rules on VA disability and severance.

Anyways, and help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
CHAPTER 18 - FAILURE TO MEET BODY FAT STANDARDS

I. Basis. The initiation of separation action is mandatory if one of the criteria below is met.
"Initiation of separation action" means a separation action must be started and presented to the
separation authority, however separation itself is not mandatory. Each level of command below
the separation authority are free to make a recommendation they deem appropriate, to include
retention. The separation authority makes the final decision. Separation action must be initiated
if no medical condition exists that a soldier from participating in the weight control program and
one of the following is met:
1. The soldier fails to make satisfactory progress in the weight control program after a
period of 6 months.
2. The soldier fails to meet table weight and body fat standards during the 12 month
period following the removal from the weight control program.
3. Between 12 and 36 months after being removed from the program, the soldier fails to
meet body fat standards. If so, the soldier has 90 days to meet body fat standards.
II. Command Requirements before Separation. The commander must show that the soldier
has failed to meet the weight control standards contained in AR 600-9. A soldier must be given
reasonable opportunity to comply with and meet weight reduction goals.
III. Relation to other Separations. A chapter 18 separation action will only be used if the
failure to meet weight control standards is the sole basis for separation. If the soldier has another
basis for separation in addition to not meeting weight standards (such as misconduct), then the
soldier will be separated under the other type of separation action (such as Chapter 13 or 14).
IV. Soldier Rights. Soldiers have the right to consult with a TDS attorney or with private
counsel at no expense to the government. Soldiers can also submit matters for the separation
authority to consider before the separation authority makes a final decision regarding separation.
Additionally, soldiers with at least 6 years of service are entitled to an administrative separation
board. All soldiers pending Chapter 18 separation should consult with an attorney before
making any decisions concerning the Chapter 18 separation.
 
I just had 2 buddies who got out from chapter 18. Both got honorable discharge, and now both going to va for compensation. You might have to wait since you are already being chaptered. I think they were out in 3 weeks.
 
Have you checked your conditions against the retention standards in chapter 3 of AR 40-501?

Mike
 
I have been looking at AR 40-501 and even printed out specifically the part dealing with migraines and brought it to my clinic. They have not given me any feedback yet outside of talking to the provider and him saying he does not think I am disqualified for continued service. I have degenerative disks and nerve damage in my lower back and, more recently, my neck. I am on a no PT profile now. Actually, behavior health told me it was psychosomatic. Needless to say, I walked out of a appointment and thanked them for wasting my time.

Also, so what should I do if I can see in plain black and white in the regulations that I should be referred to an MEB but the provider says no? What recourse do I have?

I am going to see my 3rd neurologist since 2011 next week regarding my migraines and also getting an MRI on my neck. I am unsure as to go about it. I qualify for an administrative separation board since I have over 6 yrs but am not sure if I even want to fight for my career. Any suggestions on that part is greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks!
 
I just had 2 buddies who got out from chapter 18. Both got honorable discharge, and now both going to va for compensation. You might have to wait since you are already being chaptered. I think they were out in 3 weeks.

They must have not been offered, or qualified for an administrative separation board, right? That is pretty quick. Plus, it may take longer for me because the unit did not have their stuff together on their paperwork. So, as of now, nothing is official.
 
I am a active duty SSG with 14+ years TIS. I am running the possibility of a Chapter 18 discharge. I do have A LOT of medical issues none of which my provider seems fit to initiate an MEB for (I am currently fighting that issue daily and have another thread dealing with that). I am preparing myself for the worst case in that he does not start an MEB and I end up with a Chapter 18. Having said that, am I right in saying that I will receive half separation pay and be able to go through the VA for the possibility of disability pay?

On the other hand, if I continue to fight it out and end up with a medical retirement/discharge, I will receive the same VA disability and no severance pay, is that right? Actually I am unsure as to the rules on VA disability and severance.

Anyways, and help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I have been looking at AR 40-501 and even printed out specifically the part dealing with migraines and brought it to my clinic. They have not given me any feedback yet outside of talking to the provider and him saying he does not think I am disqualified for continued service. I have degenerative disks and nerve damage in my lower back and, more recently, my neck. I am on a no PT profile now. Actually, behavior health told me it was psychosomatic. Needless to say, I walked out of a appointment and thanked them for wasting my time.

Also, so what should I do if I can see in plain black and white in the regulations that I should be referred to an MEB but the provider says no? What recourse do I have?

I am going to see my 3rd neurologist since 2011 next week regarding my migraines and also getting an MRI on my neck. I am unsure as to go about it. I qualify for an administrative separation board since I have over 6 yrs but am not sure if I even want to fight for my career. Any suggestions on that part is greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks!

In reference to any potential acceptance into the DoD IDES MEB/PEB process, the following suggested information is provided:

By military regulation, service members are referred within 1 year of being diagnosed with a medical condition that does not appear to meet medical retention standards. If your medical condition issues warrant a P3 profile as assessed and submitted by your PCM, then the MTF with MEB/PEB approval authority shall review the P3 profile request for entry into the DoD IDES MEB/PEB process.

That said, how long have you been on temporary profile? Is the temporary profile supportive of your "degenerative disks and nerve damage in my lower back and, more recently, my neck?" Is the temporary profile supportive of your migraine headaches? Are you currently on any prescription medication for your migraines?

Naturally, I would offer that you continue to explore all options and/or opportunities until officially exhausted. Stay the course and remain strong throughout your interactions while trying to secure the best solution for yourself.

Thus, possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer.

Best Wishes!
 
I am on a lot of prescriptions for my migraines. As it stand, even with the prescriptions, I am missing a day of work per work due to quarters. I have been dealing with migraines for about 5 years now and no one has ever mentioned a profile for it. This is the issue that I am pushing for in regards to an MEB.

As for my back, I have been on a P2 profile since 2008 but it the pain has been getting progressively worse. I have been on and off of temp profiles for the last few months only. Also, I am going to see a neurologist for my migraines again and am getting an MRI on my neck.

At this point I am just ready to get out. I am really of no use to the military and feel that I am ready to move on. Personally, I would like it to be under medical rather than a weight control discharge. That is just my thought though.

Thanks.
 
I am on a lot of prescriptions for my migraines. As it stand, even with the prescriptions, I am missing a day of work per work due to quarters. I have been dealing with migraines for about 5 years now and no one has ever mentioned a profile for it. This is the issue that I am pushing for in regards to an MEB.

As for my back, I have been on a P2 profile since 2008 but it the pain has been getting progressively worse. I have been on and off of temp profiles for the last few months only. Also, I am going to see a neurologist for my migraines again and am getting an MRI on my neck.

At this point I am just ready to get out. I am really of no use to the military and feel that I am ready to move on. Personally, I would like it to be under medical rather than a weight control discharge. That is just my thought though.

Thanks.

From my experiences, if you have been on a temporary profile which totals 12 months then by military regulation, service members are referred within 1 year of being diagnosed with a medical condition that does not appear to meet medical retention standards for potential acceptance into the DoD IDES MEB/PEB process.

Your current outlook is understandable. But, again, I would offer that you continue to explore all options and/or opportunities until officially exhausted. Stay the course and remain strong throughout your interactions while trying to secure the best solution for yourself.

Thus, possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer.

Best Wishes!
 
Thanks for the help and advice. I have pretty much resigned myself to going ahead and getting out under a Chapter 18. I figure the medical stuff is well documented and even though this doc does not want to start the MEB, I'll submit everything the the VA and am convinced, after looking through this forum and applicable regs, that I will get in excess of 80% disability. The only thing is is that my wife would like to keep her ID card and exchange.commissary privileges. From what I read, with such a separation, you can continue to use the exchange and commissary for up to 2 years. We'll see though.

Thanks!
 
Thanks for the help and advice. I have pretty much resigned myself to going ahead and getting out under a Chapter 18. I figure the medical stuff is well documented and even though this doc does not want to start the MEB, I'll submit everything the the VA and am convinced, after looking through this forum and applicable regs, that I will get in excess of 80% disability. The only thing is is that my wife would like to keep her ID card and exchange.commissary privileges. From what I read, with such a separation, you can continue to use the exchange and commissary for up to 2 years. We'll see though.

Thanks!

You are welcome, brother! :)

I wish you and your wife the best forthcoming opportunities in life. You are a fighter; that said, I am confident that you shall succeed with the post-Active Duty military endeavors.

Again, stay the course and remain strong throughout your interactions while trying to secure the best solution for yourself and family with the DoVA.

Thus, please remember that possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer.

Best Wishes!
 
Thanks for the help and advice. I have pretty much resigned myself to going ahead and getting out under a Chapter 18. I figure the medical stuff is well documented and even though this doc does not want to start the MEB, I'll submit everything the the VA and am convinced, after looking through this forum and applicable regs, that I will get in excess of 80% disability. The only thing is is that my wife would like to keep her ID card and exchange.commissary privileges. From what I read, with such a separation, you can continue to use the exchange and commissary for up to 2 years. We'll see though.

Thanks!

I am not sure (other than fatigue and wanting to move on to what comes next) why you would not fight for a medical retirement.

Also, in the above bolded part of your quote, are you talking about disability retirement? If so, this is wrong. With a military retirement, you get the same benefits as any other retiree- life time exchange, commissary privileges, but more importantly you and your eligible dependents will retain TriCare eligibility.

Hope all goes well for you. Good luck!
 
Thanks for the reply and perhaps you can help me with this. I have walked to in my doc's office with the highlighted page of the regulation where it talks about migraines. He continually says no he will not start it and that I don't qualify because he wants to exhaust ALL possible treatment plans. I've talked to IG, Patient Advocate, MEB/PEB Coordinator and none of them want anything to do with the situation and all say it is up to the doc. I just completed my second MRI on my head and neck and seen my third neurologist. I will do a follow up with my primary care doc this week and bring up the MEB again. I have a feeling his response will be the same.
Any advice on who else to talk to? I've thought about talking to the Madigan Military Health System IG office other than that, I'll probably bring it up during my Admin Sep board.

I read that the commissary/exchange privileges can be maintained for 2 years if involuntarily discharged under honorable conditions.
 
It is best to fight this out tooth and nail while you are still in service. However, some of your more effective appeal options will not be available to you (most likely) until you are separated.

My first thought is to tackle the profile issue first. If you are sick in quarters a day a week, you should have some sort of profile (and, it certainly sounds like it should be at least a P3- which should trigger an MEB). I am not sure if all of your efforts have been directed so far towards getting the MEB. Maybe you need to hit the 50 meter target first and get the profile issue addressed. If you succeed with that, I think the rest will fall into place.

You might want to consider a Congressional inquiry at this point. I tend to not favor that course of action because it often is not that helpful. However, every once in a while it is helpful and I could see it being so in your case. I would not pin my hopes on this, but seeing as how you are running into brick walls, I don't see a downside here. I would focus on the two issues- why you have no profile and why you are not being referred to an MEB.

Maybe see if your commander will refer you for a fit for duty examination. That may end up triggering an MEB if you are found to fail retention standards.

Have you tried to change PCMs? Again, this is not something I usually think is a good idea as a standard approach. However, it sounds like your doc is just bad and is neither addressing your medical problems nor following up administratively (via issuing a profile or referring you to an MEB).

As an outside shot (and I mean a real long shot), it is possible to get a directed PEB by the CDR, HRC:

Per AR 635-40:

"Initiation of Medical Evaluation
4–6. Referral by headquarters
The commander, USAHRC, upon recommendation of The Surgeon General, may refer a Soldier to the responsible
MTF for medical evaluation when a question arises as to the Soldier’s ability to perform the duties of his or her office,
grade, rank, or rating because of physical disability.
4–7. Referral by commanders of medical treatment facilities
Commanders of MTFs who are treating Soldiers in an assigned, attached, or outpatient status may initiate action to
evaluate the Soldier’s physical ability to perform the duties of their office, grade, rank, or rating.
4–8. Referral by commanders
When a commander believes that a Soldier of their command is unable to perform the duties of their office, grade,
rank, or rating because of physical disability, the commander will refer the Soldier to the responsible MTF for
evaluation. The request for evaluation will be in writing and will state the commander’s reasons for believing that the
Soldier is unable to perform his or her duties. DD Form 689 (Individual Sick Slip) may be used for such referral (AR
40–66). Commanders of Reserve units not on active duty will be guided by AR 40–501 and chapter 8, of this
regulation."

The first step under Para. 4-6 is gaining recommendation of the Surgeon General. Unfortunately, there is no "easy way" to get that recommendation. So, you may have to "color outside the lines" (thoughts that come to mind are submitting a memorandum request laying out your circumstances- especially the time you miss from duty- with evidence to the Surgeon General; or perhaps a concurrent request to CDR, HRC, requesting evaluation of your circumstances by the SG). Or, perhaps requesting Congressional assistance with getting evaluation by the SG. None of these steps are likely to make you popular; also no guarantee that they will work. But, they may work; if they don't you will have certainly made your position clear and this may help with later appeals.

I think it would be easiest if the MTF just did the right thing and initiated an MEB, or if your commander initiated an evaluation under Para. 4-8. I am just suggesting that there are some options before you are separated.

If you are not successful, I think your route for appeal lies with the ABCMR or in court.

Hope all goes well!
 
Gee, that is a lot of information, all of which I appreciate immensely. I have a habit of suffering in silence, but am grateful I found this site to get some feedback. Especially, thanks to Mr. Perry for you help. I think I have a renewed vigor in which to fight this thing.

I have been thinking about the congressional inquiry for a while now. I think I will get a draft together along with supporting documentation. I will also mention in the message that I will request a recommendation from the Surgeon General. As for the commander initiating it, that is probably more of a long shot than the Surgeon General. I asked the for help and they stopped me mid-sentence and said they don't want to have anything to do with that.

I will see the my doctor this week with the results of my recent MRI and neurologist consultation. I will mention possibly receiving a profile for the headaches and see what he says. Also, I'll remind him of the regulations again and see what comes of that. If nothing, I'll let my chain of command know that I am sending up a request for a congressional inquiry. I'm sure that start a fire and suffer some repercussions by being in the negative spotlight of my company leadership.

Again, thanks for all the advice thus far!
 
Gee, that is a lot of information, all of which I appreciate immensely. I have a habit of suffering in silence, but am grateful I found this site to get some feedback. Especially, thanks to Mr. Perry for you help. I think I have a renewed vigor in which to fight this thing.

I have been thinking about the congressional inquiry for a while now. I think I will get a draft together along with supporting documentation. I will also mention in the message that I will request a recommendation from the Surgeon General. As for the commander initiating it, that is probably more of a long shot than the Surgeon General. I asked the for help and they stopped me mid-sentence and said they don't want to have anything to do with that.

I will see the my doctor this week with the results of my recent MRI and neurologist consultation. I will mention possibly receiving a profile for the headaches and see what he says. Also, I'll remind him of the regulations again and see what comes of that. If nothing, I'll let my chain of command know that I am sending up a request for a congressional inquiry. I'm sure that start a fire and suffer some repercussions by being in the negative spotlight of my company leadership.

Again, thanks for all the advice thus far!

A very inspiring message "...I think I have a renewed vigor in which to fight this thing;" welcome back to the fight! :)

To that extent, I would offer to never default from what you believe is potential military injustice while serving as an Active Component member of the U.S. Military.

Moreover, stay the course and remain strong until successful completion of the results you are trying to achieve.

Thus, once again, possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer.

Best Wishes!
 
So, had a sit down with one of the head nurses today and had an hour long heart-to-heart. Basically, I found out I am stuck between a rock and a hard place even more than I was before. Appearantly, they are tired of me mentioning MEB so she straight up told me that the more I push, the more it seems like I have an alterior motive. I told her that I did and it was to get as much treatment taken care of prior to separation. I told her that I have had these issues, especially the migraines, since late 2006 and began while deployed to Iraq. I told her that I have seen 3 neurologists since 2011 and have been on every prophylaxis known to treat migraine. I even did a VTC with a neurosurgeon in Walter Reed and he diagnosed me as having migraines. Now, here comes this Army doc at this little clinic that says that he does not think it is migraines but rather general headaches. Now, this opens up a whole other, and probably never ending line of possible treatment plans. She said that all the doc had write down in my records was the word "malingering" and all hope of a MEB is lost.

I also told her that I am experiencing a decrease in duty performance due to missing a week of work per week due to being given a shot of Demoral and being sent home on quarters. Also, due to only sleeping about an hour a night due to insomnia and sleep apnea, I am fatigued all day to the point of near exhaustion. She said that I have to be careful about that as well due to the fact that all the command has to do is command refer me to behavioral health and recommend a Chapter 14 for unsatisfactory performance. Ya, so there it is. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

What I plan on doing now is letting my immediate chain of command know that I am going to write a letter to my congress in order to get this issue out of the hand of the few people that hold so much power over my career and are not afraid of making the point well known unto me.

Any input is greatly appreciated as usual.
 
WTF!!!!!!! Jason gave some great advice. Perhaps after reading your post on your BS day with medical, he'll have even more. Good luck!!!
 
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