Condition identified, but not fully evaluated before orders were terminated.

Russ35057

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Long Story Short: was on Title 32 AGR for 10+ years which were ended in October 2018. In late 2016 on top of some other problems I started having lower back pain and tightness that never went away. Civilian dr. had me x-rayed and found what was identified as arthritis in the lumbar spine in early 2017, and taking medications for it. no progress. in early 2018 Civilian Dr. starts to process referrals for physical therapy, however this process gets stopped in April 2018 when my AGR Orders lapsed. Finally this got corrected by early may and was going to physical therapy until early august. Unfortunately in late august I was on terminal leave so I could not follow up with my civilian Dr. on the condition due to relocating for a new job in Alabama as a civilian (Forced off my AGR tour for not being deployable - that is my guess.... never given documentation stating so just termination letter). lost healthcare coverage until late December when the VA rated me, and i went in January 2019 (one of the conditions was for my lower back classified as degenerative disc disease issues in l2 - s1 including 2 bulged discs found during VA MRI in May 2019). now I have a problem because I'm now a drilling reservist and I'm on the 1 year mark of what they call the "waiver" and the VA will not generate the letters needed to proceed for fit/unfit opinions because I haven't had enough care yet. so I believe I have an issue where there should of been an LOD on my lumbar spine, and I was released off my orders before evaluation by competent medical authority on my spine which also could have resulted in an MEB. what went wrong here? what Air Force / Air National Guard regulations might have been broken in this situation. I know I got shafted.... I just need to prove it.
 

Guardguy11

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AGR life is tricky. When you are on indefinite orders, LODs are rarely accomplished because of the work involved and most people are not familiar with the system. AFI 36-2910 para 1.6 discusses when an LOD is required and it sounds like you fit this requirement. Paragraph 2.2 shows the responsibilities of everyone involved in the LOD process and clearly says in para 2.2.2 that the medical provider shall initiate and process the LOD determination.

You could probably use that information to make them go back and fill one out proactively. There is an untimely LOD MFR that typically will have to accompany the AF 348 as it processes through the Wing CC for signatures stated what happened and why it is so late. I think you have a solid shot at getting an LOD since you are still in the unit as a DSG.

Brad
 

Russ35057

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@Guardguy11 I think they were more focused on the other issues and not doing paperwork on the other conditions popping up. Now I'm debating whether I should just give up and just finish my 2 years and change and just hopefully get the retirement at 60 (I'm 38 Now). or keep pursuing this through medical, and possibly throw a congressional in to the mix (finally got a response back on an inquiry from 4 months ago and they want me to fill out a privacy act release form). I've taken my case to 2 IG's (wing level and state - blown off... case too old) and the wing commander. Medical doesn't have enough docs (yeah kinda sucks when you loose Tricare while in a process) and VA is not assisting and just tells me wait for my next appointments... Meanwhile medical is breathing down my neck.... Why don't they just put me on TDY orders to the nearest AD MTF and have them run all the tests and make determinations? I have a big book of medical records I can bring!
 

Guardguy11

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@Guardguy11 I think they were more focused on the other issues and not doing paperwork on the other conditions popping up. Now I'm debating whether I should just give up and just finish my 2 years and change and just hopefully get the retirement at 60 (I'm 38 Now). or keep pursuing this through medical, and possibly throw a congressional in to the mix (finally got a response back on an inquiry from 4 months ago and they want me to fill out a privacy act release form). I've taken my case to 2 IG's (wing level and state - blown off... case too old) and the wing commander. Medical doesn't have enough docs (yeah kinda sucks when you loose Tricare while in a process) and VA is not assisting and just tells me wait for my next appointments... Meanwhile medical is breathing down my neck.... Why don't they just put me on TDY orders to the nearest AD MTF and have them run all the tests and make determinations? I have a big book of medical records I can bring!
What is medical "breathing down your neck" for? They have the power to initiate a Pre-IDES trigger if they feel you should be separated from service. I feel like the medical and senior leadership doesn't understand their role in this situation, or I am missing a piece of your DES puzzle. Those "TDY orders" would be the MEDCON program. The only thing that MEDCON requires is that an interim LOD be started, which can be initiated by you with your MEDCON POC help, and you have to be in "restorative care". Get setup for physical therapy for six months and you should be good to go. 36-2910 also allows for you to be assigned to an alternate duty location during MEDCON. I live and work at Whiteman AFB in Missouri but am assigned to McConnell AFB for drill. They put my orders to Whiteman after I found a unit willing to let me hang my cap on the wall and do some free labor for them.
 

Russ35057

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ok here's the SITREP:

1. Oct 2017 - IRILO done - (anxiety, Depression and joint fusions in feet) NGB came back with a "Fit For Duty" ALC Code C-2 not WWD. Commander's impact statement said can do job but EPR a month later states sub standard performance...
2. Med Changes for anxiety and depression in Dec 2017 also sent in for X-ray on spine which was causing trouble and arthritis identified.
3. Mar 2018 - Commander gives notice of non-retain on AGR (after 4 years Active duty, a year on various orders, and 10 years on AGR)
4. April 2018 - AGR orders lapse and I lose Tricare (orders were supposed to be done to October 15th) was getting physical therapy for lower back scheduled. delayed until June 2018. Tricare restored in May 2018.
5. In physical therapy from June 2018 - Aug 2018. Terminal leave started Aug 24th.... couldn't go back to civilian PCM and Physical therapy was not effective. MRI delayed due to losing health insurance and getting in to the VA medical eligibility. Finally had MRI finding DDD and 2 bulged discs in l4-l5 and l5-s1 with contact with nerves.
6. Also June 18 got another ALC Code C-3 also not WWD but fit for duty... still not done for my back....

now medical wants new records... VA says I haven't been with them long enough, and the AF 469 just expired.... does this help?
 

heathro1281

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I think you have two arguments, :
1. You were released from AGR orders while actively pursuing medical recovery
2. Medical cases mismanagement due to the changing of status (which I think you were wrongly released of duty).

I hope someone here can help with directing you towards go civilian counsel in regards to our PMs back and fourth. At least get a experts opinion.
 

Russ35057

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I think you have two arguments, :
1. You were released from AGR orders while actively pursuing medical recovery
2. Medical cases mismanagement due to the changing of status (which I think you were wrongly released of duty).

I hope someone here can help with directing you towards go civilian counsel in regards to our PMs back and fourth. At least get a experts opinion.
I would say add a 3rd.... Inaccurate commander's impact statement on the first submission, and no new ones since. The performance reports and that impact statement just don't jive.... if there were issues that showed up on the Performance reports in 2017 then it should have been on the impact statement written a month before the EPR in 2017 = possible unlawful influence per AFI due to it skewing for a fit and not a non-biased statement involving actual impacts...
 

Guardguy11

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ok here's the SITREP:

1. Oct 2017 - IRILO done - (anxiety, Depression and joint fusions in feet) NGB came back with a "Fit For Duty" ALC Code C-2 not WWD. Commander's impact statement said can do job but EPR a month later states sub standard performance...
2. Med Changes for anxiety and depression in Dec 2017 also sent in for X-ray on spine which was causing trouble and arthritis identified.
3. Mar 2018 - Commander gives notice of non-retain on AGR (after 4 years Active duty, a year on various orders, and 10 years on AGR)
4. April 2018 - AGR orders lapse and I lose Tricare (orders were supposed to be done to October 15th) was getting physical therapy for lower back scheduled. delayed until June 2018. Tricare restored in May 2018.
5. In physical therapy from June 2018 - Aug 2018. Terminal leave started Aug 24th.... couldn't go back to civilian PCM and Physical therapy was not effective. MRI delayed due to losing health insurance and getting in to the VA medical eligibility. Finally had MRI finding DDD and 2 bulged discs in l4-l5 and l5-s1 with contact with nerves.
6. Also June 18 got another ALC Code C-3 also not WWD but fit for duty... still not done for my back....

now medical wants new records... VA says I haven't been with them long enough, and the AF 469 just expired.... does this help?
You definitely have a case to be made. I agree with Heathro, you need to seek council. At the same time you are seeking council, next drill weekend, you need to report to sick call and talk about your back hurting. Ask who the MEDCON POC is and talk to them about applying for MEDCON for your back due to it being injured during title 10 orders. Bring medical documentation that shows you injured it while on orders.
 

Russ35057

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Id have to find a way to get VA to shut off my 90% I'm already getting "IF" and that's a huge if! i end up on medcon orders to clear this crap up.
 

Guardguy11

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Id have to find a way to get VA to shut off my 90% I'm already getting "IF" and that's a huge if! i end up on medcon orders to clear this crap up.
Finance should be able to deduct your pay for the amount of your VA without blinking an eye. It would save you from having to deal with the VA and still meets federal law.

It's up to you man, but you have a case and AFI on your side. It sounds like they beat the fight out of you though...
 

Russ35057

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Finance should be able to deduct your pay for the amount of your VA without blinking an eye. It would save you from having to deal with the VA and still meets federal law.

It's up to you man, but you have a case and AFI on your side. It sounds like they beat the fight out of you though...
Not yet on beating the fight... I've had more time to research everything since last October and that's how I came to these conclusions. But the thing is I'm from a unit that has been in the news lately for being in trouble and they find ways to make things happen or not happen if you catch my drift. IG has been useless (which they have a history of being) and my chain of command is the problems. This has been elevated to the new wing commander and I'm half tempted to give this case to my congressman...
 

Russ35057

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I pulled the trigger on a congressional inquiry.... now we wait and see what magic happens lol
 

Russ35057

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more issues...
Updates: 1. Still nothing from Wing commander or anything.... I think this has been swept under the rug. IG Useless. 2. Provided my case to Congressman Brooks's office here in Alabama for looking in to the issues in this situation. 3. My unit keeps asking more documents for the profile renewal.... I've given them all I have and still not enough! 4. Finally saw A VA podiatrist and he stated I should be able to run, and took a look at my feet and found out the Foot fusion that was done 3 years ago on the left foot didn't take, and they will not do the plate and screws method since I have a history of non unions... so I have one fused and one they wont treat.... um there goes most of the physical requirements.... end Rant.
 

Russ35057

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Updates for anyone watching my Train wreck...
1.Last 422 Expired 30 Jun 19 and "Waiver"
2. 20 Aug 19 - Medical POC stated writing up package for NGB
3. 21 Aug 19 - I received a statement of selection (non-duty DES)and I elected Desire Entry in to DES (I'm already SC with the VA at 90%) this is supposedly for fitness only.... ( guess I was supposed to also have this in 2017 and 2018 for the last 2 attempts where I was found fit. I honestly don't ever remember seeing this.) I have signed and submitted back.
 

Russ35057

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New Update:
New AF 469 Generated - 23 Aug 19
Commander is doing a new impact statement..... lets see how this goes.
New Medical, and Mental NARSUM's being completed. Conditions have worsened...
 

Russ35057

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New impact statement, but problem, now my issues are listed as not being on orders.... the mess around games continue. I annotated the discrepancies in my comments box before signature.
 
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