CRDP with REDUX--Doug

RonG

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Case, initial presentation.

I was medically retired after 24 years 1 month of active duty Oct 2018 but took the CSB. I am also 100% combat disabled from VA and 70% from the Army. I receive CRDP and am told I am eligible for CRSC as well but have not applied. I have had a VA waiver of $552 until Dec 2019 when it increased to $890. I have been on the phone for hours on end trying to get clarification from DFAS as to why I have a waiver in the first place and all I have received is more confusion from DFAS. DFAS told me that at retirement a technician listed the wrong retirement date, gross military retired pay, and VA waiver on my account. After an audit of my account this error was found which is why the increase to $890. Then when I called again, I was told the $890 VA Waiver was due the REDUX. I am thoroughly confused. Can you explain to me if I am actually supposed to have a VA Waiver and if so, does $890 each month sound correct?

Comment.

I just lost 30 minutes of work on this case by switching screens. You actually have a VA waiver of 3,364.38 each month and CRDP restores part of it. The 3364.38 amount should be verified by providing VA percentage, amount, categories of dependents, ages of children and (added) any SMC you are receiving. The RAS does not show the full waiver due to the format by which they present CRDP and other considerations. If one backed into the full computation, the 3364.38 waiver can be confirmed.

Resumption:

1. 3960 gross on DFAS RAS divided by 70% DoD disability percentage = 5657.14 high three used by DFAS per RAS
2. 3960 gross minus VA comp amount of 3,364.38 = 595.62 residual retired pay (note: need VA comp amount, categories of dependents, and ages of children...you mentioned you have 100%)
3. The 3960 gross retired pay includes some disability retired pay and some longevity retired pay
4. Your CRDP is 2528.21 using the REDUX formula and per page two of your RAS. The combination of residual retired pay and CRDP is limited to the amount of retired pay you earned through REDUX.
5. You reported DFAS provided the following:
DFAS further explained that: Our records reflect that you retired due to a disability. Under Title 10, U.S. Code, Section 1414, your Concurrent Retirement Disability Pay (CRDP) has a special rule where CRDP entitlement must be limited to what would have been paid under any other provision of the law if you had not been retired for disability. Your CRDP entitlement calculations are detailed below:
Gross Pay Amount: $ 3,937 (Ron: This is odd since the DFAS RAS clearly shows 3960)
Less VA Waiver Amount: $ 3,364.38 (Doug: My entire monthly disability from VA including with dependents)
Equals Net Pay Amount: $ 572.62 (Ron: using DFAS own figures 3960-3364.38 = 595.62 residual retired pay...see my item 2 above)

Service Gross pay with Redux $ 3,052 (Doug: I understand this)
Less Any Net Pay: $ 572.62 (Doug: Again, not sure why this is subtracted) Ron: they are reducing the REDUX amount by residual retired pay...seemingly
Equals CRDP Entitlement: $ 2,479.38 (Doug: This would be Net Pay, I assume) --Ron: No, it is CRDP, except the RAS shows CRDP as 2528.21 on page two


6. More info from DFAS which you reported:
Ok, so my Gross pay minus redux is $3052
3,937 (Gross before Redux) - 3364.38=572.62 (Retired pay is reduced by amount of VA compensation which is this number)
$3052-572.62= $2479.38 which should be my CRDP pay, correct? Ron: Your RAS shows 2528.21 as CRDP

The information above is from DFAS but my RAS states that my CRDP payment should be $2,528.21 and my VA Waiver is $890. That just seems high to me.

7. DFAS also reported:

1. The average of your highest 36 months of active duty pay (known as the High 36 or High 3 base amount)is used to calculate your pay. In your case, use the High 36/High 3 base amount of $5,624.38. Ron: They show 3960 as gross; 3960/0.70 DoD = 5657.14 high three
2. Convert your Service for Percent to a decimal by dropping the days (24 years and 1 month), then fractionalize the month by dividing by 12 (1 divided by 12 equals 0.08).Round to two decimal places. The result (24 years and 1 month, or 24.08) is your Service for Percent. Ron: I agree with 24.08
3. CSB Percent Multiplier Formula: Service for Percent (24.08 X .035) - .30 = .5428 (54.28%) for CSB
4. High 3 base amount X Percent Multiplier = Gross Pay (drop cents) $5,624.38 X .5428 = $3,052.91 or gross pay $3,052.00
Not sure where they get the .035 for my 24.08 year career.
Ron:
Special Computations for Career Status Bonus with Reduced Retirement (CSB/REDUX) A. The retired pay or retainer pay multiplier of members who elected the CSB with REDUX retirement will be reduced 1 percentage point for each full year of creditable service less than 30 and 1/12th of 1 percent for each full month of creditable service less than a full year.

8. Conversion: 30 years minus 24.08 AD = 5.92 years remaining to 30
24.08 x 0.025 = 60.2% normal longevity retirement multiplier
5.92 x 0.01 = 5.92 % reduction of multiplier
60.2 minus 5.92 = 54.28 REDUX multiplier
5657.14 high three per RAS x 0.5428 = 3070.70 REDUX amount

3960 Gross retired pay minus 3070.70 REDUX amount = 889.30 amount lost due to REDUX

SUMMARY:

I have answered some of your questions.
--The REDUX conversion is explained at my item 8.
--I have shown that the average high three most recently used = 5657.14 high three used by DFAS per RAS
--The gross retired pay is 3960 before any modifications
-- 3960 gross minus VA comp amount of 3,364.38 = 595.62 residual retired pay
--
DFAS CRDP 2528.21
--Other

I spent a lot of time on this, partially because DFAS' narrative did not fit the info on their own RAS they produced. I cannot go further with it since much of what can be inferred from the RAS you have is not in agreement with their narrative. Perhaps, they used an earlier RAS.

Added: The high three actually is 5658 rather than 5657.14 shown above. The gross pay on page one of the DFAS RAS drops the cents. It makes little difference in the computation.

Regards,
Ron
 

Mountain Time

New Member
Registered Member
In progress...

Case, initial presentation.

I was medically retired after 24 years 1 month of active duty Oct 2018 but took the CSB. I am also 100% combat disabled from VA and 70% from the Army. I receive CRDP and am told I am eligible for CRSC as well but have not applied. I have had a VA waiver of $552 until Dec 2019 when it increased to $890. I have been on the phone for hours on end trying to get clarification from DFAS as to why I have a waiver in the first place and all I have received is more confusion from DFAS. DFAS told me that at retirement a technician listed the wrong retirement date, gross military retired pay, and VA waiver on my account. After an audit of my account this error was found which is why the increase to $890. Then when I called again, I was told the $890 VA Waiver was due the REDUX. I am thoroughly confused. Can you explain to me if I am actually supposed to have a VA Waiver and if so, does $890 each month sound correct?

Comment.

I just lost 30 minutes of work on this case by switching screens. You actually have a VA waiver of 3,364.38 each month and CRDP restores part of it. The 3364.38 amount should be verified by providing VA percentage, amount, categories of dependents, ages of children and (added) any SMC you are receiving. The RAS does not show the full waiver due to the format by which they present CRDP and other considerations. If one backed into the full computation, the 3364.38 waiver can be confirmed.

Resumption:

1. 3960 gross on DFAS RAS divided by 70% DoD disability percentage = 5657.14 high three used by DFAS
2. 3960 gross minus VA comp amount of 3,364.38 = 595.62 residual retired pay (note: need VA comp amount, categories of dependents, and ages of children...you mentioned you have 100%)
3. The 3960 gross retired pay includes some disability retired pay and some longevity retired pay
4. Your CRDP is 2528.21 using the REDUX formula and per page two of your RAS. The combination of residual retired pay and CRDP is limited to the amount of retired pay you earned through REDUX.
5. You reported DFAS provided the following:
DFAS further explained that: Our records reflect that you retired due to a disability. Under Title 10, U.S. Code, Section 1414, your Concurrent Retirement Disability Pay (CRDP) has a special rule where CRDP entitlement must be limited to what would have been paid under any other provision of the law if you had not been retired for disability. Your CRDP entitlement calculations are detailed below:
Gross Pay Amount: $ 3,937 (Ron: This is odd since the DFAS RAS clearly shows 3960)
Less VA Waiver Amount: $ 3,364.38 (Doug: My entire monthly disability from VA including with dependents)
Equals Net Pay Amount: $ 572.62 (Ron: using DFAS own figures 3960-3364.38 = 595.62 residual retired pay...see my item 2 above)

Service Gross pay with Redux $ 3,052 (Doug: I understand this)
Less Any Net Pay: $ 572.62 (Doug: Again, not sure why this is subtracted) Ron: they are reducing the REDUX amount by residual retired pay...seemingly
Equals CRDP Entitlement: $ 2,479.38 (Doug: This would be Net Pay, I assume) --Ron: No, it is CRDP, except the RAS shows CRDP as 2528.21 on page two
Comment: DFAS CRDP 2528.21 plus 592.61 residual =

6. More info from DFAS which you reported:
Ok, so my Gross pay minus redux is $3052
3,937 (Gross before Redux) - 3364.38=572.62 (Retired pay is reduced by amount of VA compensation which is this number)
$3052-572.62= $2479.38 which should be my CRDP pay, correct?

The information above is from DFAS but my RAS states that my CRDP payment should be $2,528.21 and my VA Waiver is $890. That just seems high to me.

7. DFAS also reported:

1. The average of your highest 36 months of active duty pay (known as the High 36 or High 3 base amount)is used to calculate your pay. In your case, use the High 36/High 3 base amount of $5,624.38. Ron: They show 3960 as gross; 3960/0.70 DoD = 5657.14 high three
2. Convert your Service for Percent to a decimal by dropping the days (24 years and 1 month), then fractionalize the month by dividing by 12 (1 divided by 12 equals 0.08).Round to two decimal places. The result (24 years and 1 month, or 24.08) is your Service for Percent. Ron: I agree with 24.08
3. CSB Percent Multiplier Formula: Service for Percent (24.08 X .035) - .30 = .5428 (54.28%) for CSB
4. High 3 base amount X Percent Multiplier = Gross Pay (drop cents) $5,624.38 X .5428 = $3,052.91 or gross pay $3,052.00
Not sure where they get the .035 for my 24.08 year career.

to be continued...

Ron,

Thanks again for your work on this. I do receive 100% dis from VA. Included in that are two dependant's ages 14 and 12. Also included is an SMC payment of $110.31. Let me know if you need anything else.
 

RonG

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Doug,

I just finished working your case; please see the lengthy discussion above.

Some of the info I presented today :

8. Conversion: 30 years minus 24.08 AD = 5.92 years remaining to 30
24.08 x 0.025 = 60.2% normal longevity retirement multiplier
5.92 x 0.01 = 5.92 % reduction of multiplier
60.2 minus 5.92 = 54.28 REDUX multiplier
5657.14 high three per RAS x 0.5428 = 3070.70 REDUX amount

3960 Gross retired pay minus 3070.70 REDUX amount = 889.30 amount lost due to REDUX

SUMMARY:

I have answered some of your questions.
--The REDUX conversion is explained at my item 8.
--I have shown that the average high three most recently used = 5657.14 high three used by DFAS per RAS
--The gross retired pay is 3960 before any modifications
-- 3960 gross minus VA comp amount of 3,364.38 = 595.62 residual retired pay
--
DFAS CRDP 2528.21
--Other

I spent a lot of time on this, partially because DFAS' narrative did not fit the info on their own RAS they produced. I cannot go further with it since much of what can be inferred from the RAS you have is not in agreement with their narrative. Perhaps, they used an earlier RAS.

Added: The high three actually is 5658 rather than 5657.14 shown above. The gross pay on page one of the DFAS RAS drops the cents. It makes little difference in the computation.


Ron
 

Mountain Time

New Member
Registered Member
Doug,

I just finished working your case; please see the lengthy discussion above.

Some of the info I presented today :

8. Conversion: 30 years minus 24.08 AD = 5.92 years remaining to 30
24.08 x 0.025 = 60.2% normal longevity retirement multiplier
5.92 x 0.01 = 5.92 % reduction of multiplier
60.2 minus 5.92 = 54.28 REDUX multiplier
5657.14 high three per RAS x 0.5428 = 3070.70 REDUX amount

3960 Gross retired pay minus 3070.70 REDUX amount = 889.30 amount lost due to REDUX

SUMMARY:

I have answered some of your questions.
--The REDUX conversion is explained at my item 8.
--I have shown that the average high three most recently used = 5657.14 high three used by DFAS per RAS
--The gross retired pay is 3960 before any modifications
-- 3960 gross minus VA comp amount of 3,364.38 = 595.62 residual retired pay
--
DFAS CRDP 2528.21
--Other

I spent a lot of time on this, partially because DFAS' narrative did not fit the info on their own RAS they produced. I cannot go further with it since much of what can be inferred from the RAS you have is not in agreement with their narrative. Perhaps, they used an earlier RAS.

Added: The high three actually is 5658 rather than 5657.14 shown above. The gross pay on page one of the DFAS RAS drops the cents. It makes little difference in the computation.


Ron
I think I understand this now and a couple cents here or there isn't really a big deal. I just thought $890 for the waiver was too high but evidently, it is right. Thanks for breaking this down in layman's terms. So, If I understand correctly upon my 62 birthday my pay should go back to normal as if I had never taken the REDUX, correct? Except, I will still incur the -1% COLA. Also, is this misunderstanding common among retirees?
 

RonG

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PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
I think I understand this now and a couple cents here or there isn't really a big deal. I just thought $890 for the waiver was too high but evidently, it is right. Thanks for breaking this down in layman's terms. So, If I understand correctly upon my 62 birthday my pay should go back to normal as if I had never taken the REDUX, correct? Except, I will still incur the -1% COLA. Also, is this misunderstanding common among retirees?
You are correct in that it reverts to normal.

Effective on the first day of the month following the member’s 62nd birthday, DFAS will recompute the retired pay of members who elected the CSB with REDUX to equal the amount of retired pay to which the member would have been entitled on that date if the member had not taken the CSB with REDUX retirement and had no reduction in their multiplier or COLA. Following the restoration discussed in the preceding sentence, DFAS will continue to apply the annual COLA reduction to the member’s retired pay each year throughout the member’s retirement.

Ron
 

RonG

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This was added:

Effective on the first day of the month following the member’s 62nd birthday, DFAS will recompute the retired pay of members who elected the CSB with REDUX to equal the amount of retired pay to which the member would have been entitled on that date if the member had not taken the CSB with REDUX retirement and had no reduction in their multiplier or COLA. Following the restoration discussed in the preceding sentence, DFAS will continue to apply the annual COLA reduction to the member’s retired pay each year throughout the member’s retirement.
 
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