DPANM has determined....(Air Force MEB question)

[ParrisSup1]

Evening/Morning all

Coming up for my separation here next month Oct 6th and previously bypassed going MEB on 2 separate occasions due to my conditions because i didn't want to potentially be disqualified. Flash forward a couple months i decided it be best to jump off AD because of falling further and further behind it was as if day to day task unto themselves became a great challenge. Started getting some of my VA matters going and between some of the docs asking "You've never been MEB'd?", Getting push back from Guard as "Failure to adjust" and a recent Xray (Not included in records sent to VA) of my back showing degeneration in neck bones 1-5 and curvature to middle/lower back thought it be best to push my MEB to not potentially leave behind a great deal of benefits not only for myself but for my family as well God forbid i go south quick. Needless to say.....

Good Morning,

AFPC Medical Standards (DPANM) has determined that you are fit to return to
duty with an Assignment Limitation Code (ALC) C-2. Please reference to the
attachment for a copy of your Form 4. For stratification level definitions
see AFI 41-210 parag 4.76 . You are now required to have a DLC 469 profile
at all times. You will also be required to have medical reviews (RILO)
completed on a regular basis. If you are tasked to deploy, TDY, PCS or
question about waiver, please contact me as soon as possible. If you have
any questions regarding the ALC C please reference AFI 41-210 4.76 or
contact our MEB office at 423-7605.

Your MEB is now closed, let me know if you have any questions.

MSME: Please update/revise DLC AF 469 as reflected on FL4

Provider: Update/ or remove restrictions as required.

Thank you,

Here are some of my conditions that should have been reviewed/have been reviewed by the VA:

5.3.7. Heart and Vascular System.


5.3.7.1.13. Symptomatic or asymptomatic second degree Type II or third degree

atrioventricular block, or symptomatic second degree I atrioventricular block.

Exception is atrioventricular blocks which are clearly associated with reversible

cause.


5.3.9. Abdomen and Gastrointestinal System.

5.3.9.3. Hernia.


5.3.9.3.1. Hiatal hernia with severe symptoms not relieved by dietary or medical

therapy or with recurrent bleeding in spite of prescribed therapy.




5.3.12. Axis I Diagnosis, and Other Mental Conditions.


5.3.12.2.4. Conditions requiring use of lithium, anticonvulsants, or antipsychotics for

mood stabilization.


5.3.12.2.5. Individuals who experience recurrent depression or anxiety disorders,

require psychiatric medication for greater than one year, who have been hospitalized

for a psychiatric condition, require an evaluation by a military mental health provider.

These cases warrant careful consideration of fitness for duty, worldwide assignability

and deployability, given that adequate mental health support may not be available in

all locations. Serious psychiatric illnesses (refer to criteria in 5.3.12.2.1-4 above) that

result in hospitalization require a MEB.


5.3.12.3.2. Unsatisfactory duty performance due to personality disorders, adjustment

disorders, factitious disorders, or sexual perversions may render an individual

unsuitable as opposed to unfit and subject to administrative separation. Unless found

fit for duty by the disability evaluation system, a separation for personality disorder is

not authorized if service-related PTSD is also diagnosed IAW DoDI 1332.14,

Enlisted Administrative Separations. Consult legal for further disposition and

clarification.


5.3.14. Spine, Scapulae, Ribs, and Sacroiliac Joints.



5.3.14.1. Congenital anomalies presenting functional impairment of a degree to preclude

the satisfactory performance of duty.


5.3.14.6. Deviation or curvature of spine. Scoliosis exceeding 30 degrees lumbar or

thoracic curvature, or interfering with function or wear of military uniform or equipment.

Kyphysis/lordosis exceeding 55 degrees or interfering with function or wear of military

Uniform




6.44.25. Extremities, Flying Classes I, IA, II, and III


6.44.25.3.12. Osteochondritis of the tibial tuberosity (Osgood-Schlatter disease), if

symptomatic, or with obvious prominence of the part, and X-ray evidence of

separated bone fragments.



6.45.16. Neurological Disorders.

6.45.16.3. Current or history of any of the following types of headaches:


6.45.16.3.1. Recurrent primary headaches, including, but not limited to migraine,

tension type, and cluster headaches with any of the following characteristics:


6.45.16.3.2. Impairment in social, vocational or academic activities caused by the

headache, its associated symptoms, or both.


6.45.16.3.3. Medication other than over-the-counter analgesics is required for

abortive control of the headache.


6.45.16.8. Sleep disorders to include, but not limited to, sleep apneas, insomnias,

hypersomnias, narcolepsy, or restless leg syndrome.


6.45.17. Learning, Psychiatric, and Behavioral.


6.45.17.5. Current or history of mood disorder including, but not limited to, major

depressive disorder, dysthymic disorder, cyclothymic disorder, depressive disorder not

otherwise specified, and bipolar disorder.


6.45.17.12. Current adjustment disorder of more than 60 days duration.


6.45.17.13. Psychological factors affecting a medical condition.


6.45.17.14. Mental disorder due to a general medical condition.


6.45.17.16. Sleep disorders of such magnitude to warrant somatic treatment greater than

30 days duration, or if associated with an Axis I disorder other than adjustment disorder.


6.45.17. Learning, Psychiatric, and Behavioral.

6.45.18. Spine and Musculoskeletal.


6.45.18.1. Current conditions including, but not limited to, the spine and sacroiliac joints

associated with local or referred pain to the extremities, muscular spasms, postural

deformities, requires external support, requires frequent treatment, or prevents

satisfactory performance of duties.


At this point id like to ask the board....is there anything I'm potentially walking away from? Some of my conditions obviously are permanent and if anything are just going to get worse with time spite solid effort. Thank you to anyone in advance who could help me out.

 

[ParrisSup1]

Also I've attempted to request what was sent up or presented as alot of these issues I've been tended to has been sprawled out over my 9yr tenure (some off base) however the way it was put across to me was "Your coming up for separation, your ALTHA notes were sent." when i asked if i could see or review the package i was told "It was your ALTHA notes.".....I failed to gain distance today in the matter and was told that the person overseeing my case was out. How far back do they look? Which "ALTHA" notes? It all seems vague and like....look dude your almost at separation no one cares. With all my issues shouldn't i have been put up for a full MEB and not what i feel was a rush job RILO?

 

[scoutCC]

RILOs are very air force specific. They don't seem entirely on the up and up, I agree. Before you can be found fit or unfit, the PEB's job, you have to be determined unretainable. So this process is a high level review to find out if the air force wants you around, same as a PEB, but without the rights for a Soldier to give input. It feels more like a high level review if the air force thinks you deserve compensation.

It sounds like they are using this process for Soldiers already one foot out the door voluntarily. It leaves you with the choice of staying in and waiting for you condition to worsen or impact your job further or saying screw it, and bringing the other foot out the door.

The MEB/PEB process has always had a pain factor to it, and it seems to have been put there to weed out the people who didn't want to work for thier disability. No one cares if they deserve it, make 'em dance for it! IDES system has taken alot of steam out of that particular train, and I can't help but think this RILO business is an attempt to bring more pain back to the process. Reenlist and play thier game or part ways and let the VA take care of it. I personally don't see another option and to me, neither seems like the right answer.

To me, it sounds like another fight someone like MAParker will have to bring to congress to fight. The air force is just finding an unjust loophole to get out of thier obligations.

 

[ParrisSup1]

It's just crazy to think how many walk away from what they deserve and i understand that may seem "selfish" or greedy but here's the thing. For more than half my years in service i fought through those above mentioned item's, denied MEB process twice because i felt...i need to be here for my people, for my troops, for my squadron, "Ranger up" and all that other garbage just to get to the end where i feel its best to cut ties before i go south and drop the ball on hot items and people that'll cause a swell of problems (more than already noted) and be pushed away like...."hey guy, beat it." I'm not alone in this, otherwise boards like this wouldn't exist (which I'm very thankful for by the way.) I guess I'm making this post because I would like to know where to go from here and if there's anything i could do before just walking away and saying the heck with it. You mentioned go for Re-up but then I'm like man whats going to happen if that drops as well, then what I've tried to setup for the outside goes flat as well. I have a family now, i need to man up and realize that if i go south, what's left for them with me being the primary bread winner? I feel like, the documentation is there....the VA surely noticed it once i showed up with a book case of records (but we all know there going to low ball as much as possible), the Guard notices it, which is why I've been given nothing but the run around and not approved (DQ'd for Failure to Adjust) just so i can drop service and then start over from scratch (which with the above wouldn't happen.) Would visiting JAG or Legal help?

Direct from VA benefits:
migraine (New), Rhinitis, allergic (New), dermatophytosis, toe nails, bilateral (New), psuedofolliculitis barbea (New), sinusitis (New), major depression (New), ankle sprain, right (New), lower back pain (New), cervical pain (New), thoracic pain (New), knee pain, right (New), hypersomnia (New), Second-Degree Atrioventricular Block , also claimed as mobitz type II (New)

Change of Status: We determined that your claim needed additional review. If additional evidence is needed from you, you will receive a letter from us explaining what is needed.

 

[ParrisSup1]

III. Waiver Considerations.
As noted above, first degree AV block and Mobitz I second degree AV block are generally
considered normal variants and as such do not require a waiver. If further testing is requested by
the ECG Library/ACS for unusual individual cases, aeromedical disposition will be guided by the
findings. Since these are normally incidental findings on routine ECGs, DNIF of the aircrew
member is not required for further work-up unless specifically recommended by the ACS. Few
aviators with Mobitz II second degree AV block or third degree AV block are seen at the ACS
because the recommendation for permanent cardiac pacing and the risk of hemodynamic symptoms
is not compatible with flying status. Waiver for these two diagnoses is unlikely. All of the above is
also applicable for FC IIU personnel. For ATC/GBC and SMOD personnel, retention standards
which state that symptomatic or asymptomatic second degree Type II or third degree
atrioventricular block, or symptomatic second degree Type I atrioventricular block are
disqualifying. The exception is atrioventricular blocks which are clearly associated with a
reversible cause.

This is JUST the cardiac portion. Check the uploaded file as well.

 

[TSgt Twitch]

RILOs are very air force specific. They don't seem entirely on the up and up, I agree. Before you can be found fit or unfit, the PEB's job, you have to be determined unretainable. So this process is a high level review to find out if the air force wants you around, same as a PEB, but without the rights for a Soldier to give input. It feels more like a high level review if the air force thinks you deserve compensation.

It sounds like they are using this process for Soldiers already one foot out the door voluntarily. It leaves you with the choice of staying in and waiting for you condition to worsen or impact your job further or saying screw it, and bringing the other foot out the door.

The MEB/PEB process has always had a pain factor to it, and it seems to have been put there to weed out the people who didn't want to work for thier disability. No one cares if they deserve it, make 'em dance for it! IDES system has taken alot of steam out of that particular train, and I can't help but think this RILO business is an attempt to bring more pain back to the process. Reenlist and play thier game or part ways and let the VA take care of it. I personally don't see another option and to me, neither seems like the right answer.

To me, it sounds like another fight someone like MAParker will have to bring to congress to fight. The air force is just finding an unjust loophole to get out of thier obligations.

RILO's etc are just now a "formal" part of the process for many branches, and yes they do place weight on "members intentions" Such as I have seen them drop several MEB's for someone who was at 18-19 years of service and had shown/communicated they wanted to retired at the 20 year mark/or even just code them specifically to be required to retire etc., I have also seen cases where a member just wanted to pop smoke, got picked up for an MEB during their exit and then sat on these boards for months complaining they were being forced to stay in for the MEB. So it does go both ways.

However, they are not the final say in the matter, nor are they "against the best interest of the member" they are just in the best interest of the AF. It would be just as easy for me to set back and say that the member admitting to putting off their concerns and "previously bypassed going MEB on 2 separate occasions due to my conditions because i didn't want to potentially be disqualified." as evidence the member only acted in their self interest and not in the best interest of the AF (ya know the whole service before self thing and all), now low and behold the members fears are potentially true that they are in fact disqualified for the guard reserve, they want to back pedal and get the MEB "they deserved to get 2 times before" because they are concerned about their future and they want the AF to put the chaulks back in and fix it. Now before any gets all upset over that, please keep in mind I am only playing devil's advocate, I have seen plenty of instances where a member was unjustly put out against their will/denied CJR's or reenlistments due to medical conditions, but not given an MEB to determine fitness. (the navy is horrible about this, but all services have done it). However in this particular case, it does not seem that this is the case, they are not denying reenlistment into the active duty AF, they are weighing the "projected wishes" of the member to seperate on their DoS against the benefit of an forced extension for the purpose of an MEB.

Does it seem like "justice" depends, are you on the side of the guy that got to dodge the loss of a lifetime of benefits, because a low percentage medical condition would have forced them out at 19 years, or are you the on the side of the member that got to their last month in and then wanted an MEB because they found out they were more broken than they thought and were concerned over benefits/potential income. The first guy is grateful they took the members wishes into play, the second not so much.


Now as to actually being helpful if I can, you can immeidately get with patient advocacy and see what can be done, you can also re-enlist, and if your condition worsens, approach the docs about an MEB at your next PHA/RILO point. You can also, just seperate, and once your conditions recieve VA ratings (you can do it sooner but its difficult without ratings in hand), you can file for a correction to records and in some case actually be brought back on duty for an MEB or just kind of retro boarded. There is a wealth of information out there on the process, I am not familiar with it enough to tell you were to start. Please also believe me when I say, I personally think by looking at what you have posted, an MEB is warranted, but I am just an old cripple that try's to be helpful, but also tries to show the full picture to people who only think that "everyone is out to screw the member".

 

[ParrisSup1]

Very valid point's and I agree 100% that sometime's thing's are set in place as "best of interest" and that i also with held thinking along the lines of service before self. I suppose as of last month when intuition started saying something isn't right i never thought to research MEB and it's actual pro's/con's. Rightfully so because "best of interest" would say, that I've got some ailments that would warrant Separation/Med Retirement and potentially qualify for one of the two. I actually have a appointment with my PCM today at 1030. Thought is i should stop by Patient Advocacy however i want to be very clear on what's the next best chess move before saying/doing something that defer's me away from a full MEB. Thank you both for the responses. Any additional advice as to next step or thing's to and NOT to say for stopping on base?

 

[TSgt Twitch]

Very valid point's and I agree 100% that sometime's thing's are set in place as "best of interest" and that i also with held thinking along the lines of service before self. I suppose as of last month when intuition started saying something isn't right i never thought to research MEB and it's actual pro's/con's. Rightfully so because "best of interest" would say, that I've got some ailments that would warrant Separation/Med Retirement and potentially qualify for one of the two. I actually have a appointment with my PCM today at 1030. Thought is i should stop by Patient Advocacy however i want to be very clear on what's the next best chess move before saying/doing something that defer's me away from a full MEB. Thank you both for the responses. Any additional advice as to next step or thing's to and NOT to say for stopping on base?

I would approach/request an appointment with the Patient advocate and tell them your concerns that even according to the wording in the RILO finding an MEB should be considered. Other than that, you may be beyond the point of where they are willing to do it, that would likely be call for a case to the BCMR and possible litigation pending that outcome.

Speak with your chain and ask for intervention from them etc. I would honestly say IMHO that your past the point of no return in regards to getting satisfaction from the service side of things. I would also seriously consider an extension or reenlistment if its still a possibility etc. because that could force the issue, but if not, you would be held to the full enlistment. Please keep in mind, I only try to play devils advocate to show both sides, I believe your being rushed out, but I also believe that your prior intentions may have contributed to that, or any intentions expressed previously to your doctor whom may have thought they were doing you a favor by not referring you, so that you could pursue the reserve/guard without that on your record etc. Similar occurred in my case, where my doctor thought stretching ut my MEB was doing me a favor because of the money/unlikeliness of my future employability at all, but I finally got through that no amount of money was worth the sufferring the driving and daily grind was causing me.

 

[ParrisSup1]

So got to get in today and had an appointment with my PCM which actually just wound up being a resident. No harm as for now I'm still trying to sort out the best possible next move and actually was being seen for a "new" issue. So i went with your suggestion, firstly i called MEB and asked what EXACTLY went up for review at which point i was told and quote "Your IH (which technically is not a clear cut DQ so as long as it's manageable) and "sore" back." .........sore back? for real? 1-5 degeneration with a curvature is "sore?" Any how i ask OK so when my provider and I got together we talked this through that it would be a full out MEB not a RILO because I have alot more going on than that. What happened? "You were coming up for separation date." OK i understand that however that wasn't the agreement, we agreed that if i need be extended i would because of my circumstances at hand, so when can we accomplish a full MEB? "We can't because it went to AFPC already." OK thank you Sir. So naturally i get off the phone and go now armed with the rebut to let my Sup and Flight Chief in on whats going on. There both sided with me and saying they have 100% support and that's crazy that you agreed to full MEB but was provided a RILO. Tomorrow in the AM Senior and i head to the TOP to meet with 1st Sgt/Superintendent/Commander. So more to follow on that end. Hit Patient Advocate and there response was similar, "That's crazy! Well we could verify that your provider did push you for MEB yet somehow MEB went with RILO. He did his part but something within there operations was way off. Thanks for letting us know you should also head up to see ADC." So final stop i hit ADC...."Keep us posted, stop in tomorrow if you get any push back from your TOP and well get involved after that. Give them a chance to hear your side and then if need be there's no reason why that happened, well pick it up from there." .......To be continued.

I hear you on that an have to say at the moment, I have got to fight this out. I'm actually transitioning into something that in the near future is going to generate a very solid income however in the reality of today with my documented challenges i know very well i could go south at a moments notice. Without proper reimbursement for my "service before self" i.e. separation pay, medical retirement, or at minimum expedited VA processing I'm walking away from a lot of money i never knew personally could come my way on top of medical coverage/care. I step out, not putting up this fight i feel like i gave up this fight, the system can fail me if it will however for now after the 1st hit i gave up the fight and gave up on what could hurt my family greatly. I understood that before hearing of all these benefits that his forum shares however anything helps even if its just my attempt to gain what potentially could come our way. Factor that with a Obama care society? You probably already know this but, I'm NOT going to be the most qualified here for coverage lol. Which means even more expenses out of pocket for mandatory medication's, chiro appointments, etc etc and not at the least even have the VA portion inline.

 

[TSgt Twitch]

So got to get in today and had an appointment with my PCM which actually just wound up being a resident. No harm as for now I'm still trying to sort out the best possible next move and actually was being seen for a "new" issue. So i went with your suggestion, firstly i called MEB and asked what EXACTLY went up for review at which point i was told and quote "Your IH (which technically is not a clear cut DQ so as long as it's manageable) and "sore" back." .........sore back? for real? 1-5 degeneration with a curvature is "sore?" Any how i ask OK so when my provider and I got together we talked this through that it would be a full out MEB not a RILO because I have alot more going on than that. What happened? "You were coming up for separation date." OK i understand that however that wasn't the agreement, we agreed that if i need be extended i would because of my circumstances at hand, so when can we accomplish a full MEB? "We can't because it went to AFPC already." OK thank you Sir. So naturally i get off the phone and go now armed with the rebut to let my Sup and Flight Chief in on whats going on. There both sided with me and saying they have 100% support and that's crazy that you agreed to full MEB but was provided a RILO. Tomorrow in the AM Senior and i head to the TOP to meet with 1st Sgt/Superintendent/Commander. So more to follow on that end. Hit Patient Advocate and there response was similar, "That's crazy! Well we could verify that your provider did push you for MEB yet somehow MEB went with RILO. He did his part but something within there operations was way off. Thanks for letting us know you should also head up to see ADC." So final stop i hit ADC...."Keep us posted, stop in tomorrow if you get any push back from your TOP and well get involved after that. Give them a chance to hear your side and then if need be there's no reason why that happened, well pick it up from there." .......To be continued.

I hear you on that an have to say at the moment, I have got to fight this out. I'm actually transitioning into something that in the near future is going to generate a very solid income however in the reality of today with my documented challenges i know very well i could go south at a moments notice. Without proper reimbursement for my "service before self" i.e. separation pay, medical retirement, or at minimum expedited VA processing I'm walking away from a lot of money i never knew personally could come my way on top of medical coverage/care. I step out, not putting up this fight i feel like i gave up this fight, the system can fail me if it will however for now after the 1st hit i gave up the fight and gave up on what could hurt my family greatly. I understood that before hearing of all these benefits that his forum shares however anything helps even if its just my attempt to gain what potentially could come our way. Factor that with a Obama care society? You probably already know this but, I'm NOT going to be the most qualified here for coverage lol. Which means even more expenses out of pocket for mandatory medication's, chiro appointments, etc etc and not at the least even have the VA portion inline.

I hope your chain backs you and you get this resolved, keep in mind one thing that may not have been mentioned or even know by the PA or your chain. RILO's are a formal part of the MEB process now, they are used to streamline the process, its an actual step, so your PCM cannot say "full meb" they can only state your potential unfit conditions and make a retention recommendation based on their experience etc. Even I with a fake hip, blown back and neck with multiple bulging disks and another hip that had to be shaved and cemented to work somewhat right, and a host of other issues that where all "unfitting" had to go through the RILO process, even though my main unfitting condition (artifical joint) and Femoral Acetabular Imingement were word for word as unfitting.

Yes you have to fight it out, I am not discrediting you for your choices past or present or even future, I myself rode the "waiver train" avoiding an MEB as long as possible, I still busted my ass in other areas and my CC's always supported me, because I was an excellent leader/manager and had experience in multiple areas etc. I even chose my medical treatment based somewhat on what had the best chance for a positive outcome for my families security and to get back my lost quality of life, even though it extended my MEB process. You have done your time and if you did it with honor and hard work, your chain should support you and if they do, then you know you can fight without fear of reprisals etc. which, gives you the chance to concentrate on A. getting healed and better and B. fighting at every level possible to get your desired outcome.

 

[ParrisSup1]

Yes you have to fight it out, I am not discrediting you for your choices past or present or even future, I myself rode the "waiver train" avoiding an MEB as long as possible, I still busted my ass in other areas and my CC's always supported me, because I was an excellent leader/manager and had experience in multiple areas etc. I even chose my medical treatment based somewhat on what had the best chance for a positive outcome for my families security and to get back my lost quality of life, even though it extended my MEB process. You have done your time and if you did it with honor and hard work, your chain should support you and if they do, then you know you can fight without fear of reprisals etc. which, gives you the chance to concentrate on A. getting healed and better and B. fighting at every level possible to get your desired outcome.

Spot on Sir. That's exactly how i feel right now. Sipped the "service before self" juice and kept pushing on (at time's running laps around people with 0 issues but that's another subject.) fire wall fives, BTZ packages for troops, 100% PT assessment's, i was/am NOT one for excuses spite the fact it being a pain to just wake from sleep some days and that's just the tip before i go off in a rant. Awaiting my PCM's reply now. Yesterday i sat down with the "TOP" and there in full support, even calling over to MEB direct to ask as to why i was not provided the actual MEB vs just the RILO portion condition's considered since they would conflict staying AD/going Guard or otherwise. Got a copy of my ALTHA encounter and sure enough it states, RILO SMH. So from what I've been told the PCM would have to code me again to generate another incident in order for MEB to take over from there. I shot her a direct message through the MiCare system to let her in on what MEB told us so here's the waiting game. I'm digging around the forum to piece together potential event's/best approaches, any further advice is greatly appreciated as for now evidently I'm standing by.

 

[scoutCC]

I'm not sure I buy the story that RILOs are for the SM benefit by allowing someone to stay in. There is no room for the SM to give their input like in a MEB/PEB. There already exists COAD to cover performers who want additional time. It seems incredibly one sided. Why are doctors not able to make a retention determination on their own? Are they that poorly trained? A high level determination on medical retainability by someone who has never met the Airman's and is in no way interested in the Airman's personal story can't help but speak to them making the AF concerns and interests of a higher importance than the Airman's best interests.

 

[ParrisSup1]

Exactly. You and I both know the answer here's the shortened version...."He'll separate, his DOS is coming up anyway....d#m^ It! He opted for Guard hell be DQ'd!!...is he still semi functional now? Unaware some of these thing's are unwaiverable and never flagged? Ok let's go "Fast Track" RILO." ................................................................smh. The only thing at this point i have in favor is 4 weeks time before DOS, Chain, Patient Advocate and ADC notified. If it has to be that way then due me justice for my contribution's.

 

[ParrisSup1]

Please excuse the late reply. I was having troubles with password recovery and failed to even get back into my original account. None the less ive finally been coded 37 MEB over 31 but only for Idiopathic Hypersomnia, Mobitz Type II, and "Sore Back" Not really sure if "Curvature of Spine" and Sore back go hand in hand however so im a little weary of that. Theres only 3 primary blocks to fill from what i was told and i actually felt Major Depression weighed alot more than "sore back" but i suppose that would be for you all to help me out with as his reply was "its only 3 blocks and the rest is up to narrative" The MEB clinic hasnt reached out to me just yet however i know its soon to come. The aim is to be separated either medically or medical retirement however im not sure how to approach this. Ive read good and bad stories from you all and would love any offered guidance in this matter as just like alot of you have a very bad tendency to downplay my issues. I know what i say, what i do, or dont do or say weighs so much on how theyll twist things to write us off and downplay our conditions. Any particular advice or guidance to avoid these pitfalls and be underwrote? The outcome would help the family greatly going forward post military and on a road to recovery. Thank you all and this board so much, it means alot to us.

 

[scoutCC]

The easier route is to get a profile for the depression. Failing that, you need the commander to talk about how the depression is interfering with your duties when it comes time for the functional statement. If you don't get a profile, you will also want to prepare a rebuttal to the NARSUM, a write up on why you see depression is interfering with your duties. Don't listen when they say there is a limit to how many conditions you can be unfit for. While it is true the NARSUM will almost never reflect not meeting medical retention standard for a condition you aren't profiled for, that doesn't prevent you from giving evidence about how you should be profiled for it.

Now, them listing those 3 conditions isn't a reflection on which is most serious or effects you the most. Those are the 3 conditions that don't meet medical retention. You can be depressed, it mess up your life in serious ways, but you can be successful at compartmentalizing it and not allowing it to interfere with your work. That would be a fit condition that the VA rates, but not the DoD. Don't get caught in a trap where you just want them to acknowledge how serious it is, or how the military has caused it, those aren't important questions for the MEB, only for the VA. Performance of duties is pretty much all the MEB cares about. If you're honest about it, the correct finding and rating should filter to the surface.

Sore back, love the spelling, isn't a big deal. The VA will do an exam and look at your records and should fix it to the curvature of the spine. The important thing is they see that its a back problem that is being profiled for which makes it easier to get the unfit finding for how the VA rates it.

The VA exams are better than the typical PA exam as far as downplaying your issues. As long as you clearly describe symptoms they figure things out was my experience. Read up on the VASRD for each condition, especially your unfit ones so you can understand what they are looking for and can make sure you bring to light the correct symptoms. I've heard people who just wanted to talk about their surgery or how bad their back hurts, which is fine, but if you don't accurately show how its effecting your movement, its pretty much talking into the wind.

Back is usually just based on how far you can move, heart will most likely be based off a METs score, unless you've been having heart failure. IH is usually rated the same as narcolepsy, which is rated as seizures, where you falling asleep during the day would be the equivalent of a minor seizure.

 

[Jason Perry]

Probable best course of immediate action- re-enlist. Otherwise, it sounds like you will have to fight this out post-separation.

 

[ParrisSup1]

@ ScottCC: solid advice Sir, definetly the input i was looking for. Evidently the MEB hasnt received the newly sent Code 37 just yet so now im waiting a call from my PCM. @ Jason Perry: i hear what your saying Sir. Then i think thats hard to swallow, being at risk to another 4yrs if they dont push my issues and potentially endangering myself or someone else just for them to justify the board. Then i think if i walk away im walking away from additional income that could help my family out considering a strong part of my weeks im mentally out of it. It sparks this cycle i know alot of you guys have been through on here. I wish i could just clear the slate of these things and function normally. Ive tried so many methods all to no real resolution. Excuse the brief rant, it doesnt help the situation whatsoever. Needless to say im still "coded" 4K preventing even a reinlistment and now my profile reads 4 under P.

 

[ParrisSup1]

Officially notified today that the MEB will not go up and 37 was never placed on profile spite being told it was. I've forwarded this to Guard and still come up as DQ'd with the 4 under my "P" in profile. Began the push back in August, wish they would have just told me then it would be a no go and could have started Terminal, still have this lump to throat/burping/nausea issue as well but will be released from AD this Monday. Just posting the final update for any viewers of this particular blog. Thank you for all contributions.

 

[Jason Perry]

Good luck with the transition! Remember, you have appeal options even once you are separated.

 

[scoutCC]

How did they cancel the MEB? The only way to cancel an MEB is for the docs to say you meet retention criteria. If that happened, your profile would be changed to a 2 (and it would have been very shady, and most likely incorrect).

I recommend you escalate the issue before you get out. I am surprised the guard hasn't escalated the issue, they should be aware this is FUBAR. Regulation is pretty clear that if you are DQed for medical reasons you need a PEB to declare fit or unfit. I'd get active retention (you're gonna need an extension), reserve retention (they're the ones denying you enlistment), the transition people who do DD214s (they'll know for sure you're getting the wrong discharge, the ones on JBLM often escalate issues if a DD214 is FUBAR based on codes not matching ETS reason), and IG all involved and then use the open door policy with the highest ranking commander you can muster. I've had Soldiers use open door with generals to get situations like this under control.

If you're done, you're done, but you certainly have an issue to bring to a record correction board if you choose to, and your story as told is accurate.