Eight year rule

Fishmom

Registered Member
I have served 15 years on active duty and now 10 years Air Force Reserves. I was involuntarily mobilized Dec 2016 and deployed in Jan 2018. While deployed I noted a small lump in my breast. I didn't think it was anything serious until 3 months later it had tripled in size. I went to the clinic. It was evaluated with an ultrasound and determined that I needed medevac. June 2017 I was diagnosed with Stage 3a er/pr + HER- breast cancer. I was placed on Medcon for the duration of chemo and radiation but Medcon was terminated the last day of radiation. I am still waiting for the LOD determination to be completed but keep being told "it can't be ILOD because cancer is preexisting". However, doesn't the "eight year rule " apply to my circumstances?
 

Fishmom

Registered Member
Not yet. They still have not completed my LOD. My AMDS keeps saying "when it comes back as EPTS-NILOD" but I don't think that is right. If I am reading AFI 36-2910 correct, my LOD should be automatically sent to DES because of my Total Active Military Service s over 16 years now.
 

Deno

PEB Forum Veteran
I understand your concern. I agree from your statement. It’s seams some things are being done incorrectly. I personally would state your concern to your command and get into contact with jag
Also use emails when presenting your concerns. It’s a paper trail. Also save all email traffic. At the end of the day you could me first.
 

Deno

PEB Forum Veteran
That last sentence was suppose to say you come first. No one will take care of you. That’s what you need to control.
 

Fishmom

Registered Member
Thanks. I guess I am just not sure how this process is supposed to work and if in fact it is going as it should. I feel like the LOD should have been quick because my TAFMS makes it kind of a no brainer.
 

gsfowler

Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I have served 15 years on active duty and now 10 years Air Force Reserves. I was involuntarily mobilized Dec 2016 and deployed in Jan 2018. While deployed I noted a small lump in my breast. I didn't think it was anything serious until 3 months later it had tripled in size. I went to the clinic. It was evaluated with an ultrasound and determined that I needed medevac. June 2017 I was diagnosed with Stage 3a er/pr + HER- breast cancer. I was placed on Medcon for the duration of chemo and radiation but Medcon was terminated the last day of radiation. I am still waiting for the LOD determination to be completed but keep being told "it can't be ILOD because cancer is preexisting". However, doesn't the "eight year rule " apply to my circumstances?
If you were on title 10 orders for greater than 30 days when you were diagnosed, then the 8 year rule should apply.

Regardless of that, when you were placed on orders, your medical readiness was evaluated and it was determined that you met the standards for deployment. Any condition that occurred while you were entitled to active duty pay will be considered in the line of duty.
 

Fishmom

Registered Member
If you were on title 10 orders for greater than 30 days when you were diagnosed, then the 8 year rule should apply.

Regardless of that, when you were placed on orders, your medical readiness was evaluated and it was determined that you met the standards for deployment. Any condition that occurred while you were entitled to active duty pay will be considered in the line of duty.

Just spoke with LOD program manager in my AMDF. She showed me that the AGRC/JA marked my co diction as NILOD. While she indicated that nothing matters except what the final reviewer says, I fear I will end up having to appeal the determination.
 

Fishmom

Registered Member
Well, LOD came back today NILOD. I am going to have to appeal that once I get formal notification. Should I submit a letter from my oncologist with her opinion (that my cancer grew more rapidly due to the stress and night shifts during deployment this putting me in Stage 3 and requiring bilateral complete mastectomy) when appealing or just use the 8 year rule for justification.
 

Matt Kozyra

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
@Fishmom,

@gsfowler and @chaplaincharlie are giving you good advice. The 8-year rule is more complicated for Reservists than for regular Active Duty members. If you're Active Component, it's easy. Just count the time since you enlisted/commissioned, and if it adds up to 8 years, you're golden.

For Reservists, you need to meet three criteria.
1. You have at least 8 years of total active service,
2. You were on Title 10 orders specifying a length of greater than 30 days at the time of your injury, and
3. You weren't released from those orders before the 30 days was up.

That's from AFI 36-2910, incidentally. You can find it here: http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2910/afi36-2910.pdf. The section is 1.10.2.2.2, on page 11.

So, in order to take the 8-year shortcut, you'll need to show that you were on orders for at least 31 days when your cancer became unfitting.

If you don't qualify for the 8-year, then you'll probably want that letter from your oncologist. You're not dead in the water - you just need to go through the same process as everyone else and prove that your condition was incurred or aggravated while you were entitled to basic pay.

@FTP's recommendation of Jason Perry is a good one, too. There aren't a lot of us who do this work regularly. Jason's great. If you decide to go with someone else, make sure to ask them how many of these cases they've done in the last year or two, and how many of those were for Reservists. You don't want someone who only takes a DES case every six months, or who doesn't know the rules for Reserves.
 

Fishmom

Registered Member
@Fishmom,

@gsfowler and @chaplaincharlie are giving you good advice. The 8-year rule is more complicated for Reservists than for regular Active Duty members. If you're Active Component, it's easy. Just count the time since you enlisted/commissioned, and if it adds up to 8 years, you're golden.

For Reservists, you need to meet three criteria.
1. You have at least 8 years of total active service,
2. You were on Title 10 orders specifying a length of greater than 30 days at the time of your injury, and
3. You weren't released from those orders before the 30 days was up.

That's from AFI 36-2910, incidentally. You can find it here: http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2910/afi36-2910.pdf. The section is 1.10.2.2.2, on page 11.

So, in order to take the 8-year shortcut, you'll need to show that you were on orders for at least 31 days when your cancer became unfitting.

If you don't qualify for the 8-year, then you'll probably want that letter from your oncologist. You're not dead in the water - you just need to go through the same process as everyone else and prove that your condition was incurred or aggravated while you were entitled to basic pay.

@FTP's recommendation of Jason Perry is a good one, too. There aren't a lot of us who do this work regularly. Jason's great. If you decide to go with someone else, make sure to ask them how many of these cases they've done in the last year or two, and how many of those were for Reservists. You don't want someone who only takes a DES case every six months, or who doesn't know the rules for Reserves.
Matt,
I had 15 years active duty before my 10 years in the reserves and I had been activated on 10 U.S.C 12302 orders and deployed for 5.5 months before getting diagnosed.
Yesterday I had my WWDE appointment with our AMDS and I was referred for MEB. I guess I need that attorney, likely Jason, sooner rather than later.
Thank you.
 

chaplaincharlie

Staff Member
PEB Forum Lifetime Supporter
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
How would you recommend I find an attorney that is familiar with this process?
There are several attorney's that only take cases of your type. Hiring just any attorney when you have niche case is a mistake. Find one that makes his/her living doing MEB/PEB/BCMR/federal appeals.

Jason Perry is one. He host this site. He has a great reputation. But only you can decide who you want to hire. Hire the best attorney you can afford!
 

Matt Kozyra

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Some recommendations in addition to Jason. I think Jason charges for an initial consult, and none of these guys do.

1. Ryan Sears. You can reach him at
[email protected]. Ryan is an O4 in the Navy Reserves, and does PEB work in both his civilian and military capacities. I've had the privilege of working with him for years. He is, quite simply, one of the most dedicated and knowledgeable attorneys I know. Outstanding results, and a great mind for developing the evidence you need to win your case. I can't say enough good things about Ryan - he's who I'd hire if I were going through the process. If you tell him I complimented him in any way, I will deny it to the death.

2. John Gately. You can reach him through his website, https://www.gatelylawfirm.com. He's a former Coast Guard JAG who's been specializing in PEB cases as a civilian for years and years. One of the few who does these cases regularly.

3. Ordinarily I'd say me, but I recently stopped taking cases. Sorry! Real shame, too. I'm awesome.
 

Fishmom

Registered Member
Some recommendations in addition to Jason. I think Jason charges for an initial consult, and none of these guys do.

1. Ryan Sears. You can reach him at
[email protected]. Ryan is an O4 in the Navy Reserves, and does PEB work in both his civilian and military capacities. I've had the privilege of working with him for years. He is, quite simply, one of the most dedicated and knowledgeable attorneys I know. Outstanding results, and a great mind for developing the evidence you need to win your case. I can't say enough good things about Ryan - he's who I'd hire if I were going through the process. If you tell him I complimented him in any way, I will deny it to the death.

2. John Gately. You can reach him through his website, https://www.gatelylawfirm.com. He's a former Coast Guard JAG who's been specializing in PEB cases as a civilian for years and years. One of the few who does these cases regularly.

3. Ordinarily I'd say me, but I recently stopped taking cases. Sorry! Real shame, too. I'm awesome.
I appreciate the recommendations and modesty ;-) I think i will be calling attorneys this week to get the ball rolling how I want it to roll rather than letting my wing and command have the control.
 

Fishmom

Registered Member
I asked my medical people to clarify if my records were sent for MEB and was told that I am actual in the process of an IRILO and that when I went for my exam with the flight surgeon that they had already drafted the NARSUM for him to just sign. Maybe I am paranoid but that just doesn't seem right to me. Also, I still have not received official notification of the Line of Duty determination.
 
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