Ethical Dilemma (Blow the whistle or not?)

What shall I do?

  • Do nothing

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Post it to Youtube

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Use it to force him to do his job

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Turn it over to the news affiliate that's been asking to air it

    Votes: 7 77.8%
  • Turn it over to his COC and hope they quietly do the right thing by kicking him out of the military

    Votes: 1 11.1%

  • Total voters
    9

Bamboonga

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
So I have a recording of the commander of the medical unit here throwing a tantrum at me with my mom in the room.

According to him, wounded soldiers are 'nothing but a burden' to their families (that is a direct verbatim quote).

He sees nothing in our future but 'living in mom's basement drinking Mountain Dew and eating Oreos'.

During a conversation with my mom he pulls out a picture of some 'marital aids' (okay, fine, sex toys) my girlfriend left in my barracks room last time she visited me here and says 'this is all your son has been doing for the last ten months'. He said this to my MOM. Like she's really going to believe I know how to use a vibrator. But seriously...is that not the most inappropriate shit ever perpetrated in the history of the universe? Every other word was 'fuckin' this and 'fuckin' that...again, to my mom.

And this is the guy who's responsible for the care of every wounded Soldier from over 4 states.

A local news affiliate wants to air the recording...if I give it to them, I hope to GOD the public outcry would be enough to get him removed.

But it could also hurt the entire army's wounded warrior programs. People like him have no business being in charge of disabled people (or, hell, people in general). He's dishonest, apathetic, and incredibly INCREDIBLY good at pretending he cares about our disabilities or the difficulties we face.

The way I see it, I have a few choices.

1) Do nothing, he continues to gleefully make life a living hell for wounded veterans after I leave. But, the program as a whole wouldn't be harmed.

2) Put the recording up on Youtube or something, so everybody can hear the kind of person he REALLY is and how much he REALLY hates having to deal with wounded vets. I fear this would hurt the program immensely. But at the moment the public view of him is this caring, compassionate crusader looking out for us all.

3) Play it for him and make it very clear that if he doesn't start treating the Joes better (or resign) it will become public (I don't know if this would be considered a crime...is it blackmail if you threaten to expose somebody's wrongdoing if they don't do their job/obey the law? I mean, he's supposed to be doing his job anyway, but he's actually going to considerable lengths to make things harder for the guys here)

4) Give the recording to the news affiliate and put it out of my mind. (I kinda see #2 as eventually leading to this)

5) Give it to his boss and boss's boss. They could bury it to avoid the trouble or they could bury him to avoid the embarrassment. In my experience in the army, it could go either way.

I'm tired of fighting the sadists and bullies of the world. It's like killing ants...you know you're never going to actually kill the 'last one'.

I could seriously use some ethical advice here, guys.
 
Last edited:

gsfowler

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I would talk to someone well versed in legal to make sure no laws were broken by recording the commander (I'm assuming you did not ask for consent). Cover your ass legally.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
@Bamboonga,

I am not sure it is best framed as an ethical issue. It may well be an issue with legal ramifications (but, as the terms of service of this site point out and I am repeating, I do not give legal advice here, and nothing should be taken as legal advice on this site). Seems to me it is a matter of practical consideration and, perhaps, a bit of "right or wrong." Still, it could have personal ramifications for you. (I suppose that might be an ethical issue- personal impact vs. greater good type analysis.

Cutting to the chase, if it were me, I would be inclined to give it to the news station. (But, that is me...I have been more inclined to raise issues and point out problems, sometimes to my own detriment, because I have thought it was the right thing to do).

So I have a recording of the commander of the medical unit here throwing a tantrum at me with my mom in the room.

According to him, wounded soldiers are 'nothing but a burden' to their families (that is a direct verbatim quote).

He sees nothing in our future but 'living in mom's basement drinking Mountain Dew and eating Oreos'.

During a conversation with my mom he pulls out a picture of some 'marital aids' (okay, fine, sex toys) my girlfriend left in my barracks room last time she visited me here and says 'this is all your son has been doing for the last ten months'. He said this to my MOM. Like she's really going to believe I know how to use a vibrator. But seriously...is that not the most inappropriate shit ever perpetrated in the history of the universe? Every other word was 'fuckin' this and 'fuckin' that...again, to my mom.

And this is the guy who's responsible for the care of every wounded Soldier from over 4 states.
This "commander" needs to be out of the Army. He needs to find a new job because he is way out of line. Doing nothing seems to me to be a non-starter.

A local news affiliate wants to air the recording...if I give it to them, I hope to GOD the public outcry would be enough to get him removed.

But it could also hurt the entire army's wounded warrior programs. People like him have no business being in charge of disabled people (or, hell, people in general). He's dishonest, apathetic, and incredibly INCREDIBLY good at pretending he cares about our disabilities or the difficulties we face.
If publicized, I cannot imagine the Army allowing this officer to continue to serve. He needs to be gone.

I don't see how publicizing the recording would hurt the Wounded Warrior program. I think it would help it- a great deal.

The way I see it, I have a few choices.

1) Do nothing, he continues to gleefully make life a living hell for wounded veterans after I leave. But, the program as a whole wouldn't be harmed.
Again, not sure how this would hurt the program. I think doing nothing is far more likely to do harm to the program. It would leave an officer in charge of Soldiers who has no business being in command. I don't think this is a good option.

2) Put the recording up on Youtube or something, so everybody can hear the kind of person he REALLY is and how much he REALLY hates having to deal with wounded vets. I fear this would hurt the program immensely. But at the moment the public view of him is this caring, compassionate crusader looking out for us all.
This is more tenable as an option to expose this commander. Still, it may not get the publicity it deserves or may take longer than needed to achieve the result of exposing this "officer" (I put the last in quotation marks, because I think this commander has deviated so far from expectations as to place his position and commission in jeopardy...the Army does not accept this type of conduct from its officers).

3) Play it for him and make it very clear that if he doesn't start treating the Joes better (or resign) it will become public (I don't know if this would be considered a crime...is it blackmail if you threaten to expose somebody's wrongdoing if they don't do their job/obey the law? I mean, he's supposed to be doing his job anyway, but he's actually going to considerable lengths to make things harder for the guys here)
I don't care much for this option. It may raise the issues you alluded to...but, it puts it in a direct "you vs. him" situation. I think that is a bad place to be in. And, it seems like the impetus for this would be to have him "do the right thing" or resign. But, in trying to get him to act in accordance with this office and position, it basically makes an unenforceable "deal." Does he just "tone down" his words? What if he "plays nice" for a period of time in his choice of words, but continues with an attitude and actions towards Soldiers that it contrary to requirements and expectations? How would this "deal" be enforced? I think this is a bad choice.

4) Give the recording to the news affiliate and put it out of my mind. (I kinda see #2 as eventually leading to this)
I think this is a viable choice. Not saying it is best or preferred choice, but, I think it may well accomplish the early exit from leadership position (and the Army) for this "officer."

5) Give it to his boss and boss's boss. They could bury it to avoid the trouble or they could bury him to avoid the embarrassment. In my experience in the army, it could go either way.
I think this is also a tenable choice. However, as you mentioned, it relies on trusting that the right outcome will follow. I am not sure that this can be trusted. But, it might. And, if you were really diligent and continued to raise the issue, it might work to accomplish getting this officer into his proper position- out of the Army and away from decision-making in matters that impact Soldiers.

I am not sure that you have hit all of the possible courses of action, or if you have considered taking multiple steps described (especially over time). That is, you might consider first giving a copy to his boss and his bosses boss. And, then, if nothing happens, releasing it to Youtube and the local news affiliate. Or, you could take another course and have us publish it here on the PEB FORUM. I think that I could get the "right eyes" on the issue (and, I could send a copy of the link to his boss, his boss, and up the chain of command. As well as possibly reaching out to Army Times and/or other media outlets). If this last idea interests you, please send me a private message:
http://www.pebforum.com/site/conversations/add

There are probably personal issues that you have to consider and how your choices might impact your own situation. That is, there may be practical considerations to take into account. I would not "do nothing"- but that is just me and you have to make your own decisions. You have to consider what is the best course of action for you as well as considering taking steps to rid the Wounded Warrior program of a toxic leader who is not competent to lead Soldiers.

I hope this helped, and I hope you make the right decision.
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
@Bamboonga,

I am not sure it is best framed as an ethical issue. It may well be an issue with legal ramifications (but, as the terms of service of this site point out and I am repeating, I do not give legal advice here, and nothing should be taken as legal advice on this site). Seems to me it is a matter of practical consideration and, perhaps, a bit of "right or wrong." Still, it could have personal ramifications for you. (I suppose that might be an ethical issue- personal impact vs. greater good type analysis.

Cutting to the chase, if it were me, I would be inclined to give it to the news station. (But, that is me...I have been more inclined to raise issues and point out problems, sometimes to my own detriment, because I have thought it was the right thing to do).



This "commander" needs to be out of the Army. He needs to find a new job because he is way out of line. Doing nothing seems to me to be a non-starter.



If publicized, I cannot imagine the Army allowing this officer to continue to serve. He needs to be gone.

I don't see how publicizing the recording would hurt the Wounded Warrior program. I think it would help it- a great deal.



Again, not sure how this would hurt the program. I think doing nothing is far more likely to do harm to the program. It would leave an officer in charge of Soldiers who has no business being in command. I don't think this is a good option.



This is more tenable as an option to expose this commander. Still, it may not get the publicity it deserves or may take longer than needed to achieve the result of exposing this "officer" (I put the last in quotation marks, because I think this commander has deviated so far from expectations as to place his position and commission in jeopardy...the Army does not accept this type of conduct from its officers).



I don't care much for this option. It may raise the issues you alluded to...but, it puts it in a direct "you vs. him" situation. I think that is a bad place to be in. And, it seems like the impetus for this would be to have him "do the right thing" or resign. But, in trying to get him to act in accordance with this office and position, it basically makes an unenforceable "deal." Does he just "tone down" his words? What if he "plays nice" for a period of time in his choice of words, but continues with an attitude and actions towards Soldiers that it contrary to requirements and expectations? How would this "deal" be enforced? I think this is a bad choice.


I think this is a viable choice. Not saying it is best or preferred choice, but, I think it may well accomplish the early exit from leadership position (and the Army) for this "officer."


I think this is also a tenable choice. However, as you mentioned, it relies on trusting that the right outcome will follow. I am not sure that this can be trusted. But, it might. And, if you were really diligent and continued to raise the issue, it might work to accomplish getting this officer into his proper position- out of the Army and away from decision-making in matters that impact Soldiers.

I am not sure that you have hit all of the possible courses of action, or if you have considered taking multiple steps described (especially over time). That is, you might consider first giving a copy to his boss and his bosses boss. And, then, if nothing happens, releasing it to Youtube and the local news affiliate. Or, you could take another course and have us publish it here on the PEB FORUM. I think that I could get the "right eyes" on the issue (and, I would send a copy of the link to his boss, his boss, and up the chain of command. As well as reaching out to Army Times and/or other media outlets). If this last idea interests you, please send me a private message:
http://www.pebforum.com/site/conversations/add

There are probably personal issues that you have to consider and how your choices might impact your own situation. That is, there may be practical considerations to take into account. I would not "do nothing"- but that is just me and you have to make your own decisions. You have to consider what is the best course of action for you as well as considering taking steps to rid the Wounded Warrior program of a toxic leader who is not competent to lead Soldiers.

I hope this helped, and I hope you make the right decision.

I don't know about the legal ramifications, but IF this were me:

I'd burn a complete/complete unaltered copy and keep the original in a safety deposit box or somewhere outside my home/residence.

Put it on YOUTUBE AND THEN hand the copy to the press. Let the push come from public airing of this. Something tells me his higher ups are either duped to his conduct or they are turning a blind eye.

Regardless, whatever the ways they're thinking, once this goes public, his bosses will have no choice but to take action to cover THEIR asses. This puts them in a spot where they will have no choice but to deal with this or risk their own jobs if they try to "cover it up".

No amount of kitty litter should be given to cover up this stink - there's too much of a stench!

No quarter ought to be given here.

Let us know what you do and where you post this recording.

I'd also send a copy to your Congressional Reps and your two Federal Senators - and a copy to the Senate Armed Services Committee. Include a one-page cover letter to each of these places, too, with the YOUTUBE addy and press articles if you have those, too.

Courtesy copy us with what you've done and your web-site postings.

Keep us posted. We care and want to see justice done!

Oh. A GREAT place to keep the ORIGINAL recording is with an attorney.....
Just saying.... cover your butt, too.

V/R,
nwlivewire
 
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Bamboonga

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Oh definitely - the first thing I did after his little temper tantrum was to put this on the cloud and on several e-mail drafts. I'm not too worried about the legal ramifications, for the obvious reason that stealing from a thief is hard to report, but also because I didn't make the recording (remember I wasn't the only one in the room).

I will definitely think on it... The only urgency is that they want to air it on the 4th. I doubt they'd turn it away on the 5th but that does seem like the right time to expose something like that.
 

Weapons loader

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I also would go to the press, however I think it's in bad taste to do it on the 4th and would try and push out the date. How in the world was it okay in his head to talk about these things in front of your mother? This guy has no business dealing with anyone let alone injured service members. I wouldn't be able to get over that if he is doing this to you that he is also doing it to others, and that his behavior will continue until he is kicked in the nuts. I only wish that I was the one swinging the leg.
 

bpreachers

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
So what ended up happening? I saw nothing of this on the news (and given current climate I have to assume this story would grow legs quickly).
 

Bamboonga

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
The gal at ABC said it would be better to wait until I had my retirement card in hand (got it yesterday). Now that Kunz guy who used to do the meat at the commissary is the big 'Fort Carson' story right now. She wants to wait until this VA investigation going on 'gets hot' (whatever that means).
 

No Slack Bayonet

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Dude that was your first mistake...ABC REALLY???? Try FOX news at least they tell 90 percent of the truth. You don't hear jack about anything concerning us on ABC, CNN or MSNBC.
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Dude that was your first mistake...ABC REALLY???? Try FOX news at least they tell 90 percent of the truth. You don't hear jack about anything concerning us on ABC, CNN or MSNBC.
CNN just broke the big VA story last month about Vets dying before they got their VA appts; they are the news channel that broke the story about the VA "cooking the books" on carrying two appointment books - one for the Vets, that take months & one for the admin records that get reported as "appt.cancelled by Vet".

It seems like everyone is piling on the VA right now, due in part to the VA expose by CNN news.

I'm sure CNN would like a shot at this as it underscores how broken this system is - from pre-Vet to post-Vet status.

CNN has also been exposing several non-profit orgs that have been set up to assist wounded/injured SMs/Vets - organizations that for every non-profit dollar they generate, less than one cent goes to the Veteran. The rest goes to the organization that's in charge of fundraising for the non-profit and for the non-profits admin "overhead".

FOX and CNN are both worthy of your time and this story!

nwlivewire
 

Bamboonga

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
CNN just broke the big VA story last month about Vets dying before they got their VA appts; they are the news channel that broke the story about the VA "cooking the books" on carrying two appointment books - one for the Vets, that take months & one for the admin records that get reported as "appt.cancelled by Vet".

It seems like everyone is piling on the VA right now, due in part to the VA expose by CNN news.

I'm sure CNN would like a shot at this as it underscores how broken this system is - from pre-Vet to post-Vet status.

CNN has also been exposing several non-profit orgs that have been set up to assist wounded/injured SMs/Vets - organizations that for every non-profit dollar they generate, less than one cent goes to the Veteran. The rest goes to the organization that's in charge of fundraising for the non-profit and for the non-profits admin "overhead".

FOX and CNN are both worthy of your time and this story!

nwlivewire
lol I only said ABC cuz their local affiliate happened to be the one that called me about it...

Which was more than a little creepy cuz they called like 4 hours after the conversation took place.

I mailed it with a hatchet and a big bag full of dimes. I can only hope the person opening their mail gets the joke...
 

danieldresen

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Post on Youtube and give it to the news. Heck, the news can be LAZY at times and if it goes viral on youtube, it will end up in the news at some point anyways.
 
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