HIGH 3

NJOnguard

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HIGH 3 how does this work for me, I'm at the end of the MEB process I'm a National Guardsmen MDAY, please see below key information
60%DOD- 100% VA
29 yrs of service
14yrs active duty pass deployments and ADOS orders
E-8/P
Been on orders for over 3 years now still on orders
base pay $6,264.00 for rank and time in service
5300 retirement points
 

RonG

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You asked about high three.

High three is used in computing retired pay.

It is the total of the highest three years of pay (not necessarily consecutive) divided by 36.

Ron
 

RonG

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If you would like a retired pay computation, please provide ALL the following info within one reply:
a. Current average high three base pay for retirement (OR gross retired pay from most recent DFAS RAS...indicate if this is your source)
b. Your approved DoD disability percentage
c. Years and months of active duty or active duty equivalent (for reserves/NG) Non-regular is points divided by 360 = equivalent
d. VA compensation percentage, amount, categories of dependents and the ages of dependent children plus amts and types of SMCs
e. Approved CRSC percentage if applicable
f. If one qualifies for another type retirement, that information is necessary as well. Also indicate if you transitioned to the Blended Retirement System.
g. Do you have a 20 year letter?
h. Have you met the age requirement for reserve retirement?

Ron
 
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RonG

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HIGH 3 how does this work for me, I'm at the end of the MEB process I'm a National Guardsmen MDAY, please see below key information
60%DOD- 100% VA
29 yrs of service
14yrs active duty pass deployments and ADOS orders
E-8/P
Been on orders for over 3 years now still on orders
base pay $6,264.00 for rank and time in service
5300 retirement points
Hello,

Although much of the needed info is missing, I will make some guesses and provide the result.

1. High three missing. Pure guess: 6000 6000 x 0.60 = 3600 disability retired pay.

2. VA info missing @ 100% Pure guess: 3,279.22 veteran with spouse only

3. 3600 retired pay reduced by 3279.22 = 320.78 residual retired pay

4. 5300 points divided by 360 = 14.72 active duty equivalent (I prefer the retiree to provide the conversion)
14.72 x 0.025 = 36.8% longevity multiplier. You should confirm the conversion of 5300 points.

5. Guess high three 6000 x 0.368 = 2208 longevity portion of retired pay.

6. 2208 longevity minus residual 320.78 = 1887.22 CRDP

7. DFAS would pay in this scenario which uses incomplete info:
CRDP = 1887.22
Residual retired pay =320.78
TOTAL: 2208 (same amount as longevity)
This is assuming you have a 20 year letter and have met the age requirement for reserve retirement.

Ron
 

NJOnguard

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I Have my 20 yr letter and all requirements are met, is it assumed that DFAS Will evaluate all the scenarios and the highest will be the award amount to the Medically retired SM. I’m Fully eligible for CRDP. Mikey concerned with was whether they were going to gauge compensation on my 28 years of the National Guard or my 14 years of active duty for retirement pay at my current or because I’m promotable when I’m promoted,will my promotable rank equate to my salary For compensation. I’m sorry for the multiple questions this is a high anxiety related situation right now.
 

NJOnguard

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I Have my 20 yr letter and all requirements are met, is it assumed that DFAS Will evaluate all the scenarios and the highest amount will be awarded to the Medically retired SM. I’m Fully eligible for CRDP. My concerned with was whether they were going to gauge compensation on my 29 years of the National Guard time or my 14 years of active duty for retirement pay or at my current active duty status or because I’m promotable when I’m promoted,will my promotable rank equate to my salary For compensation. I’m sorry for the multiple questions this is a high anxiety related situation right now.
 

RonG

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I Have my 20 yr letter and all requirements are met, is it assumed that DFAS Will evaluate all the scenarios and the highest amount will be awarded to the Medically retired SM. I’m Fully eligible for CRDP. My concerned with was whether they were going to gauge compensation on my 29 years of the National Guard time or my 14 years of active duty for retirement pay or at my current active duty status or because I’m promotable when I’m promoted,will my promotable rank equate to my salary For compensation. I’m sorry for the multiple questions this is a high anxiety related situation right now.
Hello,

1. I encountered another MSG(P) a few months ago and he was curious whether he would be promoted to SGM before retirement. He returned last week and confirmed he had been promoted to SGM E-9. If promoted to SGM just before you retire, it will will little impact on the retirement base by which your pay is computed unless the following applies:
Final Pay: Primary retirement plan for Reserve members with initial date of entry into service prior to September 8, 1980 .

2. Your retirement plan will likely be: High-36 (or "High 3").
High-36Defined Benefit that equals 2.5% times the number of years of service times the average of the member’s highest 36 months of basic payPrimary retirement plan for members with initial date of entry into service on or after September 8, 1980, but before January 1, 2018

3. Both retirement pay plans shown at items 1-2 use a multiplier percentage that is 2½% times the years of creditable service. The creditable years of service for a reserve retirement calculation is determined by the sum of all accumulated reserve points divided by 360. Example: 6000 creditable points divided by 360 = 16.67 Active Duty Equivalent years.
16.67 AD equivalent years x 2.5% = 41.68% retirement multiplier

4. Example computation, reserve retirement with high three of $5500 and 16.67 active duty equivalent years (which is 41.68% multiplier): 5500 x 0.4168 = 2292.40 gross retired pay

5. You asked, "...is it assumed that DFAS Will evaluate all the scenarios and the highest amount will be awarded to the Medically retired SM.[?]" Yes, it will be computed as I showed in the example at post number 4 of this thread. CRDP will restore the waived longevity portion of retired pay. It will not restore the amount of waived retired pay in excess of the longevity amount.

6. DFAS, computation of retired pay: https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/plan/estimate.html <---LINK
DFAS uses the method that results in the largest payment.

Ron
 
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NJOnguard

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Hello,

1. I encountered another MSG(P) a few months ago and he was curious whether he would be promoted to SGM before retirement. He returned last week and confirmed he had been promoted to SGM E-9. If promoted to SGM just before you retire, it will will little impact on the retirement base by which your pay is computed unless the following applies:
Final Pay: Primary retirement plan for Reserve members with initial date of entry into service prior to September 8, 1980 .

2. Your retirement plan will likely be: High-36 (or "High 3").
High-36Defined Benefit that equals 2.5% times the number of years of service times the average of the member’s highest 36 months of basic payPrimary retirement plan for members with initial date of entry into service on or after September 8, 1980, but before January 1, 2018

3. Both retirement pay plans shown at items 1-2 use a multiplier percentage that is 2½% times the years of creditable service. The creditable years of service for a reserve retirement calculation is determined by the sum of all accumulated reserve points divided by 360. Example: 6000 creditable points divided by 360 = 16.67 Active Duty Equivalent years.
16.67 AD equivalent years x 2.5% = 41.68% retirement multiplier

4. Example computation, reserve retirement with high three of $5500 and 16.67 active duty equivalent years (which is 41.68% multiplier): 5500 x 0.4168 = 2292.40 gross retired pay

5. You asked, "...is it assumed that DFAS Will evaluate all the scenarios and the highest amount will be awarded to the Medically retired SM.[?]" Yes, it will be computed as I showed in the example at post number 4 of this thread. CRDP will restore the waived longevity portion of retired pay. It will not restore the amount of waived retired pay in excess of the longevity amount.

6. DFAS, computation of retired pay: https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/plan/estimate.html <---LINK
DFAS uses the method that results in the largest payment.

Ron
Thank you sir
 

RonG

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Hello, NJOguard,

This addresses the disability aspect of your retirement using the example figures in the preceding post. You mentioned, "60%DOD- 100% VA".

The process by which a reserve/NG retirement would be computed using the longevity factor is shown in the preceding post.

Using the 60% DoD disability percentage you mentioned, the following would occur.

1. Example 5500 high-three x 0.60 = 3300 retired pay
2. 3300 retired pay reduced by amount of VA compensation 3,279.22 (veteran & spouse example) = 20.78 residual retired pay (i.e., left over)
3. Since you meet the age requirement for reserve retirement and also have a VA rating of 50% or more, you are eligible for CRDP. CRDP is computed as I showed for a normal reserve retirement in the preceding paragraph. The example amount of the reserve retirement (and longevity) is 2292.40.
4. 2292.40 longevity portion of retired pay minus 20.78 residual retired pay = 2271.62 CRDP
5. You would receive in this example:
a. 20.78 plus 2271.62 = 2292.40 paid by DFAS
b. 3279.22 VA Compensation (example amount)

Ron
 

Armypilot

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Ron, or one of your great cohorts, like GuardGuy, perhaps can enlighten me on a question dealing with CRDP and my particular situation:

I was an Army Reserve CW4 pilot Warrant, and was put thru IDES/MEB process because I had several issues that I could not fly with anymore (never mind that the Army had approved waivers for years when they needed me more, but that is besides the point). I was retired in March of 2017 by the Army MEB/PEB system rated at 100% DoD, 100% VA. But I had not turned 60 yet (all my combat time was before 9-11), although I had received my 20 Yr Letter. So here we are, and I applied for CRDP after turning 60 yrs old, and even though DFAS has not mailed me anything yet, they told my Congressman (after a year of waiting, I had to file a Congressional request for info) that even though "I am entitled to CRDP, you won't get it because you would loose about 168 dollars a month". Like I said, I have not seen this letter, but wanted to give you the basic info, to see if it makes sense to you. Here is my data:

Rank CW4 (39 Yrs 1 mo 8 day for longevity pay)
DoD Rating 100% (and yes, I have been receiving the 75% of the pay at 6,210/mo. The actual Base Pay for CW4 at 39 yrs is $ 8280)
VA Rating 100%
Retired Gross Pay currently is 6210.00 (I guess the 0.75 times 8280)
VA Waiver is 3760.14 (it's 100% plus wife and some organ losses)
Reserve points are 4028 from DA Form 5016 (Should be equal to 11.18 yrs, but my Retirement Orders said "Disability Retirement 10 yrs 11 mo and 26 days". I am not sure how the 4028 points translate to that, but regardless).

Is it possible, with the information given, to estimate the CRDP pay, and what my total pay should be? I would appreciate it very much!

I tried going the CRSC route a year ago, but nothing was approved. I guess 39 yrs of flying Army aircraft can't lead to Tinnitus, or the damaged back the Army retired me for, lol.

Thanks for your help with this,

Harold
Old Army Aviator
 

RonG

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Hello Harold,

Using your info...

1. 6210/0.75 = 8280 retired pay base

2. 6210 gross minus 3760.14 amount of VA comp = 2449.86 residual retired pay

3. Disability retirement time (AD) 10.915 x 0.025 = 27.29% longevity multiplier

4. 8280 x 0.2729 = 2259.61 longevity portion of retired pay

5. 640401. Special Rule for Disability Retirement Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61, §§ 1201 through 1222 remain subject to the offset required under 38 U.S.C. §§ 5304 and 5305 for any retired pay they receive that is in excess of the amount of retired pay to which they would be entitled under any other provision of law based on service in the Uniformed Services, had they not retired for disability. Since retired pay in excess of the amount calculated for years in service is still subject to offset under the CRDP program, a member with an amount of retired pay remaining after offset of VA disability compensation, that is greater than the amount calculated for years of service, is not eligible for any increase in payment of retired pay under the CRDP program. DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 64 * October 2018

6. Based on the info you provided, the residual retired pay is more than the amount computed for years of service. This results in zero CRDP.

Ron
Old Finance SGM

Added:
"...that even though "I am entitled to CRDP, you won't get it because you would loose about 168 dollars a month" -- DFAS
I found a potential loss of 190.25 instead, but that is likely due to rounding plus DFAS has the source documents for your case.
 

RonG

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The computation shown in the preceding post will not be shown on the DFAS RAS, but the mechanics of the computations are presented above.

Incidentally (and as you likely know), CRDP is retired pay, restored.

Ron
 

Armypilot

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Hello Ron,

Thanks so very much, you have explained it so that even I can understand it. You are a huge help and support to all the veterans in this site, and I for one, thank you for your years of service in and out of uniform, and may God Bless you and help you stay well.

Harold
 

RonG

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Thank you Harold. You made my day.

Take care and be safe.

Ron
 

Armypilot

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Ron,

I am so glad. You have been one of the quiet heroes in this website that have helped hundreds, if not thousands, by providing guidance, encouragement and valuable, accurate information.

I can't tell you how nervous I was when my 39 Yr Army Aviation career was coming to an end by the prospect of the MEB/PEB process, but reading and informing myself fro you and the other smart gurus put me at ease. Life doesn't end when you can't serve any more, it just takes a different track (hard to admit for a guy that spent 39 years doing the same, flying airplanes and helicopters, but it's true).

Again, thanks for everything and have a Blessed Day!

Harold
 

RonG

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Thank you Harold.

I left Germany (16 years total there) in 1991 for retirement. I had no specific place to go.

Three weeks after returning from Germany, I was employed by a major university to develop research proposals and the associated budgets. I'm confident from the little I know about you that you will find something to do that is satisfying.

Good luck,
Ron
 

krichardson1964

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If you would like a retired pay computation, please provide ALL the following info within one reply:
a. Current average high three base pay for retirement (OR gross retired pay from most recent DFAS RAS...indicate if this is your source)
b. Your approved DoD disability percentage
c. Years and months of active duty or active duty equivalent (for reserves/NG) Non-regular is points divided by 360 = equivalent
d. VA compensation percentage, amount, categories of dependents and the ages of dependent children plus amts and types of SMCs
e. Approved CRSC percentage if applicable
f. If one qualifies for another type retirement, that information is necessary as well. Also indicate if you transitioned to the Blended Retirement System.
g. Do you have a 20 year letter?
h. Have you met the age requirement for reserve retirement?

Ron
I would like a quote and some clarification on DA PAM 635-40 section 3-12, as it relates to counting inactive duty points and membership points for eligibility for a disability retirement.

I am an AGR Soldier, CW5, 31 years of service, going through the MED Board process which started 15 Jan. I have been rated DOD 60% and VA 100%. I was promoted to CW5 September 2018, current Basic pay is $9560, I anticipate my end date to be sometime in August/September timeframe. but I am still waiting on the 199. (PEBLO gave me the ratings). CW4 pay with 29 years of service is around $7920. roughly 2 years as a five and 1 year as a four would be $9013 (if calculating correctly). I am Married (kids grown, though one keeps coming back...lol). I am 55 years old.

I am currently at 19.1 years AFS, and based on my calculations will hit 20 years AFS 3 NOV. I have attached retirement statement. I do have a 20 year letter. The regulation I quoted says that a minimum of 7200 points service is counted for disability retirement and that both membership and inactive duty points are included, plus points up to this point. Would that count toward the concurrent pay from both DOD and VA? If needed I can do a COAD to get me until December, but based on the regulation, I should be good for 20 AFS.

Hope I included everything. Let me know what you think.


Thanks!
 

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RonG

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I would like a quote and some clarification on DA PAM 635-40 section 3-12, as it relates to counting inactive duty points and membership points for eligibility for a disability retirement.

I am an AGR Soldier, CW5, 31 years of service, going through the MED Board process which started 15 Jan. I have been rated DOD 60% and VA 100%. I was promoted to CW5 September 2018, current Basic pay is $9560, I anticipate my end date to be sometime in August/September timeframe. but I am still waiting on the 199. (PEBLO gave me the ratings). CW4 pay with 29 years of service is around $7920. roughly 2 years as a five and 1 year as a four would be $9013 (if calculating correctly). I am Married (kids grown, though one keeps coming back...lol). I am 55 years old.

I am currently at 19.1 years AFS, and based on my calculations will hit 20 years AFS 3 NOV. I have attached retirement statement. I do have a 20 year letter. The regulation I quoted says that a minimum of 7200 points service is counted for disability retirement and that both membership and inactive duty points are included, plus points up to this point. Would that count toward the concurrent pay from both DOD and VA? If needed I can do a COAD to get me until December, but based on the regulation, I should be good for 20 AFS.

Hope I included everything. Let me know what you think.
Thanks!

Hello krichardson1964,

1. We see folks retire (disability retirement) every week with far less than 7200 points. That number of points makes one eligible for a regular retirement. Their retirement pay is usually high three average base pay x DoD disability retirement percentage = disability retirement pay.

2. VA compensation is not based on the number of years one has served. The VA compensation tables are at This LINK <----

3. Active duty equivalent years and months are what you are looking for it seems, for CRDP. The 7200 points of which you spoke = 20 year AD equivalent. That and at least a 50% VA rating qualifies one for CRDP.

4. On such an important issue that needs to be precise, recommend you visit with the Human Resources Command of your service, That said, I recently had a conversation with a colleague on another board about a similar situation. I'll post it after I retrieve it. Some of the NG people who are part of this forum are: @Guardguy11 @Ocean @Sullysull48
They have been tagged and hopefully they will contribute to this thread.

5. Here is a summary of the conversation I mentioned:
"Ref: "I reached out to xxxx who had a 1405 issue on VBN. He was short of 20 years by a few weeks and being retired on chapter 61 but he confirmed that his 1405 time got him to 20. As I recall, this would not happen on a regular retirement to get to 20 but 1405 is applied to disability retirement calculations ."--the colleague

That is very helpful. Thank you.

So...in summary for 1405 time:
--Regular retirement: 1405 does not help getting to 20 years AD or equivalent
--Disability retirement: 1405 does count toward achieving 20 years AD or equivalent
--CRSC (inferred): 1405 does count in computing the longevity portion of retired pay for a Chapter 61 retiree (disability)

Regards,
Ron
----
6. He subsequently agreed with the summary. However, both of us have regular retirements and never served in the NG. As mentioned, the Human Resources Command is recommended.

Ron
 

krichardson1964

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Thanks Ron, very helpful. I will have HRC take a look as I do not want to end up a few weeks short. My command will endorse a COAD to get me to the 20. It may be better to be safe.

Ken
 

RonG

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Thanks Ron, very helpful. I will have HRC take a look as I do not want to end up a few weeks short. My command will endorse a COAD to get me to the 20. It may be better to be safe.

Ken

Hi Ken,

I agree and I am glad you are taking that path. Please let us know how this turns out...

The longevity portion of your retirement would be the CRDP amount in a CH 61 case.

Re: 1964 in your name. The year I graduated high school. Laura Bush graduated the same year but at one of the other two high schools there at the time. Tommy Lee Jones was another, but left early to attend a private school in Dallas.

Ron
 
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