IMR Advice

Ifly64s

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I just had my IMR and the Dr seemed very helpful and sounded like she agreed with my issues. I'm an Apache Pilot. I crashed due to mechanical problems killing my gunner and leaving me with a TBI.

My original NARSUM addressed all but one of my conditions but they only found two unfitting conditions. PTSD and Cognitive.

My Flight Surgeon wrote a very detailed letter referencing all my conditions as they relate to Aviation MOS ref AR40-501 Chapter 4. My Flight Surgeon also stated that I'm medically unqualified to attend any school for change of MOS and that both my former MOS 15B (Combat Aviator As Captain) and current MOS 152H (AH64D Apache Pilot) are Aviator MOS's. I reverted from Captain to CW2 when I joined the National Guard. According to these regs I'm unfit due to brain bleed, vertigo, amnesia and headaches in addition to PTSD and Cognitive.
The IMR Dr told me that the letter was extremely well done and that she would ref the points in her review letter. She also said that I needed to write my own letter of appeal because the MEB wouldn't change my NARSUM just on her advice.

My PEBLO told me that he could change my NARSUM if the IMR Dr "worded her letter correctly." Whatever that means. My PEBLO gets lost on unnecessary lectures about what his role is vs Dr's etc. He is very difficult to glean any information other than rote boiler plate.

My PEBLO says to wait and review my IMR before doing an appeal letter. What is your experience tell you that I should be doing while awaiting my IMR and after receipt? Thank you,
 

ceilingfan

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I just had my IMR and the Dr seemed very helpful and sounded like she agreed with my issues. I'm an Apache Pilot. I crashed due to mechanical problems killing my gunner and leaving me with a TBI.

My original NARSUM addressed all but one of my conditions but they only found two unfitting conditions. PTSD and Cognitive.

My Flight Surgeon wrote a very detailed letter referencing all my conditions as they relate to Aviation MOS ref AR40-501 Chapter 4. My Flight Surgeon also stated that I'm medically unqualified to attend any school for change of MOS and that both my former MOS 15B (Combat Aviator As Captain) and current MOS 152H (AH64D Apache Pilot) are Aviator MOS's. I reverted from Captain to CW2 when I joined the National Guard. According to these regs I'm unfit due to brain bleed, vertigo, amnesia and headaches in addition to PTSD and Cognitive.
The IMR Dr told me that the letter was extremely well done and that she would ref the points in her review letter. She also said that I needed to write my own letter of appeal because the MEB wouldn't change my NARSUM just on her advice.

My PEBLO told me that he could change my NARSUM if the IMR Dr "worded her letter correctly." Whatever that means. My PEBLO gets lost on unnecessary lectures about what his role is vs Dr's etc. He is very difficult to glean any information other than rote boiler plate.

My PEBLO says to wait and review my IMR before doing an appeal letter. What is your experience tell you that I should be doing while awaiting my IMR and after receipt? Thank you,
There's nothing, really, that you can do at this point (at the MEB level) beyond the IMR. You can appeal the PEB findings but that won't come until later. Also, if you're not satisfied with ratings you can request a Ratings Review.
 

Ifly64s

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Can the IMR result in changing my NARSUM before it goes to the PEB?
 

Sascha Roberson

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
You may want to look into doing a MEB appeal to get things changed. The IMR is only there to explain what the NARSUM states, not to change any diagnosies.
 

Ifly64s

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
The diagnosis are correct. Their status ref to Unfitting for MOS is the only correction needed.
 

ranger2992

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
What exactly does your NARSUM state? After each condition it should state either "meets retention standards" or "fails to meet retention standards". Are you saying they say it meets Army retention standards, but fails for your MOS?. Is your concern that they are going to find you unfit to be a pilot, but fit for continued service? With PTSD and cognitive problems, that seems very unlikely. With cognitive issues, reclassification to tech warrant officer positions would be hard. Also being aviation, the only tech field to go into is 151A (aviation maint officer) and there are very limited positions available.
 

Ifly64s

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
The NARSUM states
PTSD and Cognitive as Unfit for duty
All the rest are diagnosed as Fit for Duty.

I've gone through every test available to get back on flight status and I know now that is never going to happen. I'm grounded for life. My concern is that all the Fit for Duty diagnoses on my NARSUM are Unfit for Duty according to my MOS. I don't qualify medically to attend a Different MOS qualification Course so I'm not worried about that. My only concern is that all my conditions that are Unfitting for my MOS are entered as Unfitting on my NARSUM. The letter from my flight Surgeon to the IMR supports this with reference to the Regs and ref to my medical recorders. Thanks for your help.
 

Sascha Roberson

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
The NARSUM states
PTSD and Cognitive as Unfit for duty
All the rest are diagnosed as Fit for Duty.

I've gone through every test available to get back on flight status and I know now that is never going to happen. I'm grounded for life. My concern is that all the Fit for Duty diagnoses on my NARSUM are Unfit for Duty according to my MOS. I don't qualify medically to attend a Different MOS qualification Course so I'm not worried about that. My only concern is that all my conditions that are Unfitting for my MOS are entered as Unfitting on my NARSUM. The letter from my flight Surgeon to the IMR supports this with reference to the Regs and ref to my medical recorders. Thanks for your help.
There may be some confusion. the local MEB cannot determine fit/unfit. All they can determine is retension standards as meets/not meets. The PEB determines fit/unfit.
 

ranger2992

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Write an appeal based on paragragh 4-1 of AR 501-40 and state it in clear terms that each of those conditions make you "unfit" for flight duty. The MEB will then either add them as "fails to meet retention" or keep them the same. Either way, your appeal will be added to your packet and be seen by the PEB. As Sascha said, the PEB will be the one who determines "fit or Unfit" on each condition. The MEB only recommends. Filing the appeal will help you build a foundation for later.
 

Ifly64s

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Sorry guys, I misspoke. I should have said fails or meets retention standards instead of fit or unfit. I'm aware that only the PEB determines fitness. I just want to get my recommendation from the MEB in line with the regs before being sent to the PEB. Thanks!
 

ceilingfan

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Shascha and Ranger

Can we "appeal" or do rebuttal through IMR the MEB findings. I'm not aware of being able to "appeal" MEB findings...
 

ranger2992

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Shascha and Ranger

Can we "appeal" or do rebuttal through IMR the MEB findings. I'm not aware of being able to "appeal" MEB findings...
Yes you can appeal the MEB findings. It's part of the whole process. When your PEBLO presents you with your NARSUM for review and signing, you have 10 days to ask for an IMR, appeal, or sign. Usually the first step is to ask for IMR because it gives you some more medical evidence and more time to decide whether to appeal or not. After your IMR you can then chose to sign, or appeal. Usually MEB counsel helps generate an appeal, but you can write your own if you choose to.

In my case, the MEB had my right leg radiculapathy rolled up with DDD on my NARSUM. I appealed this and referenced AR 501-40 stating that it was a seperate condition and needed to be listed as a seperate unfitting condition. I wrote and submitted the appeal myself. I turned it in at 0900 in the morning and had a response by 1500 the same afternoon. They agreed with me and hand wrote it on my NARSUM. This appeal ended up being the difference between receiving 20% and severance for DDD based on only ROM and the 30% and retirement I got based on 20% for DDD and 10% for radiculapathy.

I see so many people who get wrapped around timelines and not wanting to wait by filing an appeal. It's a mistake because they are giving up a great chance to get a good result early in the process. Even if they don't get the desired result, they still have added information to their packet that otherwise would have never been seen by the PEB. Lastly, the time a MEB appeal takes is a drop in the bucket to how long a PEB appeal takes.
 
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