MEDCON Orders & the IDES Process

Guardguy11

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I am still on MEDCON orders for multiple appointments related to my condition, but they are slated to end on the 15th. The DODI seems pretty specific that when a SM is going through the IDES process they should be on orders, but it doesn't appear that the AF, or ANG more specifically, has a mechanism to fulfill the DODI.

Has anyone else had any luck with MEDCON continuation during IDES?
 

AnAmericanAirman

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I am still on MEDCON orders for multiple appointments related to my condition, but they are slated to end on the 15th. The DODI seems pretty specific that when a SM is going through the IDES process they should be on orders, but it doesn't appear that the AF, or ANG more specifically, has a mechanism to fulfill the DODI.

Has anyone else had any luck with MEDCON continuation during IDES?
Get as many people involved in having your MedCon orders continued. Do NOT let your orders lapse, it is going to be very difficult to get you back on orders. You should be continued until the conclusion of the IDES process.
My orders lapsed and I had to file with the AFBCMR to get it straitened out. You have time, this is important. Get with your PEBLO, your chain of command, Med Group

AnAmericanAirman
 

Guardguy11

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Get as many people involved in having your MedCon orders continued. Do NOT let your orders lapse, it is going to be very difficult to get you back on orders. You should be continued until the conclusion of the IDES process.
My orders lapsed and I had to file with the AFBCMR to get it straitened out. You have time, this is important. Get with your PEBLO, your chain of command, Med Group

AnAmericanAirman
when you did the ACBMR, what afi or DODI did you use for evidence?

My med group has deferred my orders continuation to my medcon liaison. My medcon liaison said that with a treatment plan that is more than medication and observation, they won't be able to extend them.

My commander has basically said there is nothing he can do if medical and ANG say there is nothing they can do... Pretty frustrating position to be in when the DODI is really clear on being on orders.
 

Padgettra

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Yes, this DODI and the IDES process is frustrating at best. The DODI is treated like a suggestion and you have to get the actual Service rules. I processed through IDES for a LOD illness that occurred on deployment back in 2010. Then, I had a reoccurrence of the condition in 2011 and 2015. At that time, I was not on active duty and was in drill status. I ask about being put on Title 10 for the IDES, yet was told to contact my Med Group which would have been very bureaucratic at best in my assessment. In hindsight, that was the way to go. You will not get a DD-214 for the PDRL unless you are on orders! Just my two cents worth.
 

flyin_dutchman

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when you did the ACBMR, what afi or DODI did you use for evidence?

My med group has deferred my orders continuation to my medcon liaison. My medcon liaison said that with a treatment plan that is more than medication and observation, they won't be able to extend them.

My commander has basically said there is nothing he can do if medical and ANG say there is nothing they can do... Pretty frustrating position to be in when the DODI is really clear on being on orders.
In my case, my AFRC base Medical staff kept on saying that the MEDCON orders are for people who have an clear case of being RTD, not folks like me who are being Med Boarded. (Yes, in clear defiance of what the AFI reads) My unit had a guy who broke his leg and was on MEDCON. ( in 2008 I had an LOD and was on MEDCON, so I know how it works) I quoted the AFI to them, and my CC was in the same boat as yours seems to be. He said there's nothing he could do? Keep on pushing and elevating the situation. As someone said, do not let them lapse; it is difficult to get them back going again if they end.
DO not get too frustrated with it all. Albeit very difficult, after awhile I treated mine like business, and not personal, even tho it is you who is being affected by it all. This helped me keep an even keel in the heat of it all (which was a lot) It's better to keep your friends close, and enemies closer. Good Luck!
 

Guardguy11

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In my case, my AFRC base Medical staff kept on saying that the MEDCON orders are for people who have an clear case of being RTD, not folks like me who are being Med Boarded. (Yes, in clear defiance of what the AFI reads) My unit had a guy who broke his leg and was on MEDCON. ( in 2008 I had an LOD and was on MEDCON, so I know how it works) I quoted the AFI to them, and my CC was in the same boat as yours seems to be. He said there's nothing he could do? Keep on pushing and elevating the situation. As someone said, do not let them lapse; it is difficult to get them back going again if they end.
DO not get too frustrated with it all. Albeit very difficult, after awhile I treated mine like business, and not personal, even tho it is you who is being affected by it all. This helped me keep an even keel in the heat of it all (which was a lot) It's better to keep your friends close, and enemies closer. Good Luck!
I am definitely trying to stay calm in this whole thing. One thing that makes it easy is that I have a great civilian gig that is waiting for me at the end of my orders so even if the DODI is completely ignored, I will still enjoy what I am doing to put food on the table for my family.

I think my MEDCON liaison is on leave because she isn't answering phone calls or e-mails. Once she gets back, I think she should be able to give me some good gouge on a way forward. I vaguely remember hearing her talk about IDES and orders a few months ago so hopefully they have fixed the glitch. I will keep you posted on the progress.
 

Guardguy11

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Well... that was fast. MEDCON Liaison literally called after I posted my last comment and said that I will definitely be kept on orders because of my 8-year rule status. Said it was really weird because of my NILOD determination but the 8-year rule and being orders is law and trumps the MEDCON AFI according to her. That was the first time I have heard someone in the process actually use common sense.

Hopefully this means things are getting better for everyone else as well. Now if we can just get the Pre-IDES process and backlogged fixed, it really would be a solid program.
 

Guardguy11

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VA MSC meeting today went well... I think. He appeared to be on my side and really walked me through my medical record on what to claim. He said that VA claims are like wet noodles... the more you throw against the wall, the more likely something is to stick. We ended up writing 24 things down from my medical records so I imagine that is going to lead to some long days at the VA clinic in the near future.
 

Whip66

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Wondering if you could share if on Title 32 or Title 10 orders? I have 25 years in ANG and over 9 AD and am on Title 32 orders for over a year. Needed a joint replacement and am being told by NGB that eight year rule does not apply to me because I am on Title 32 orders.
 

Guardguy11

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Wondering if you could share if on Title 32 or Title 10 orders? I have 25 years in ANG and over 9 AD and am on Title 32 orders for over a year. Needed a joint replacement and am being told by NGB that eight year rule does not apply to me because I am on Title 32 orders.
I am on title 10 orders now and was on title 10 orders when I was injured. Being on title 32 orders is going to hose you. Paragraph 1.10.2.2.2.2 is why they are stating that the eight year rule doesn't apply to you. Why are you on title 32 orders? MEDCON is typically title 10 orders. I would be interested in hearing your situation because I am not sure what the trigger point is for when some people are on title 10 versus title 32 for medical stuff.


36-2910
1.10.2.2.2. Eight Year Rule (10 U.S.C. § 1207a, Members with Over Eight Years of Active Service: Eligibility for Disability Retirement for Pre-Existing Conditions). An illness, injury or disease that is EPTS may be deemed to have occurred in a duty status for the purpose of determining disability separation or retirement by a Physical Evaluation Board if the member:
1.10.2.2.2.1. Has at least eight years of total active service;
1.10.2.2.2.2. Was on Title 10, U.S.C. active duty orders specifying a period of greater than 30 days at the time the condition became unfitting; and
1.10.2.2.2.3. Was not released from active duty within 30 days of commencing such period of active duty under 10 U.S.C. § 1206a, Reserve Component Members Unable to Perform Duties When Ordered to Active Duty: Disability System Processing, due to an EPTS condition not aggravated during the period of active duty.
1.10.2.2.2.4. Whether medical separation or retirement for EPTS conditions is appropriate under the Eight Year Rule is a finding made in the DES. While the Eight Year Rule is not an LOD determination, LOD referring authorities are responsible for identifying and referring to the DES those EPTS cases to which the Eight Year Rule might apply (i.e., those with members meeting the criteria of this paragraph and having an EPTS condition that is potentially unfitting in terms of retention and/or mobility standards). This ensures that such cases are entered into the DES and appropriately assessed under the Eight Year Rule.
 

7869jake

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I am still on MEDCON orders for multiple appointments related to my condition, but they are slated to end on the 15th. The DODI seems pretty specific that when a SM is going through the IDES process they should be on orders, but it doesn't appear that the AF, or ANG more specifically, has a mechanism to fulfill the DODI.

Has anyone else had any luck with MEDCON continuation during IDES?
Don't listen to anyone that hasn't actually gone through this process themselves when it comes to MEDCON. Being one of those individuals, I can tell you that if you are on MEDCON when you enter the IDES, then AFI 36-2910 is clear, stating:

5.11.1.1. Subject to paragraphs 5.2 (Eligibility), 5.8.1 (Mandatory Termination) and 5.8.2 (Discretionary Termination), members already on MEDCON orders shall be entitled to remain on those orders for the duration of IDES processing.

Most medical liaisons are clueless when it comes to MEDCON and the actual regulations. If there is ever an issue like this, then contact ARCCMD directly. If they ever give you flak, site the regulation above.
 

Guardguy11

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Don't listen to anyone that hasn't actually gone through this process themselves when it comes to MEDCON. Being one of those individuals, I can tell you that if you are on MEDCON when you enter the IDES, then AFI 36-2910 is clear, stating:

5.11.1.1. Subject to paragraphs 5.2 (Eligibility), 5.8.1 (Mandatory Termination) and 5.8.2 (Discretionary Termination), members already on MEDCON orders shall be entitled to remain on those orders for the duration of IDES processing.

Most medical liaisons are clueless when it comes to MEDCON and the actual regulations. If there is ever an issue like this, then contact ARCCMD directly. If they ever give you flak, site the regulation above.
After spending more time in this program I think I found part of the problem for me. First, I wasn't in the IDES process, I was in the "Pre-IDES" process. The Pre-IDES doesn't count as IDES and operates outside of the MEDCON program. Since I wasn't in the full fledged IDES process, and I wasn't in a restorative treatment plan, my MEDCON was going to come to an end. If my MEDCON would have ended before IDES started, they wouldn't have had to put me on orders in the IDES from what I was told, but fortunately it worked out for me.

My MEDCON was ultimately extended due to a higher up at ARC-CMD saying that he determined my extended care to be necessary outside of the AFI directed treatment plan. If I had a name for this person, they would be getting a Christmas card this year. I was approved to enter into the IDES two weeks after my extension went into effect so, since I was on orders, they put me on continuous orders through the rest of my IDES process.

With the whole LOD process, it felt like the Guard was really looking at every way possible to screw me. Fortunately I feel into the right place & right time for the eight-year rule and they had to allow my medical stuff to qualify for IDES. God has definitely been evident to me throughout this process so I am thankful for the way things have turned out and regardless of the outcome during the IPEB, I am thankful.
 
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