No separation pay for failed PFT?

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
My husband, an officer, with almost at 18 years failed 3 PFTs and he is getting separated. Several people have said that my husband will get half of his separation pay but I just saw this new order....would this be specific for enlisted or officer, or does it matter?

there are codes in it that I don't know. I do know that his separation papers do say honorable discharge with code GFT

NAVADMIN: NEW POLICY REGARDING INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION PAY FOR PHYSICAL FITNESS ASSESSMENT FAILURE

2 January, 2011 (22:11) | NAVADMIN | By: admin
FM CNO WASHINGTON DC
TO NAVADMIN
NAVADMIN 420/10
SUBJ/NEW POLICY REGARDING INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION PAY FOR PHYSICAL
FITNESS ASSESSMENT FAILURE//
REF/A/DOC/DUSD(MPP)/29NOV10//
REF/B/DOC/OPNAV/20DEC05//
NARR/REF A IS MEMORANDUM FROM DUSD(MPP) REGARDING SEPARATION PROGRAM
DESIGNATOR (SPD) CODES.
REF B IS OPNAVINST 1900.4, SEPARATION PAY FOR INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION
FROM ACTIVE DUTY.//
RMKS/1. EFFECTIVE 1 JANUARY 2011, IN COMPLIANCE WITH REF A, MEMBERS
SEPARATED FOR FAILURE TO PASS THE PHYSICAL FITNESS ASSESSMENT (PFA)
SHALL BE ASSIGNED A SEPARATION PROGRAM DESIGNATOR (SPD) CODE ENDING IN
EITHER “FT” OR “CR.”

2. IF A MEMBER IS BEING SEPARATED SOLELY FOR FAILING THE PHYSICAL
READINESS TEST (PRT) PORTION OF THE PFA AND HAS PASSED THE BODY
COMPOSITION ASSESSMENT (BCA) PORTION IN EACH OF THE FAILED CYCLES, THEY
SHALL BE ASSIGNED AN SPD CODE ENDING IN “FT” (PHYSICAL STANDARDS) AND
WILL NO LONGER BE AUTHORIZED INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION PAY (ISP).
3. IF A MEMBER FAILS TO PASS THE BCA PORTION OF THE PFA IN ANY OF THE
FAILED CYCLES, THEY SHALL BE ASSIGNED AN SPD CODE ENDING IN “CR” (WEIGHT
CONTROL) AND MAY RECEIVE ONE HALF ISP. THE SAILOR MUST BE ELIGIBLE IN
ALL OTHER RESPECTS INCLUDING THE REQUIREMENT TO SERVE IN EITHER THE
SELECTED RESERVE OR INDIVIDUAL READY RESERVE COMPONENTS IN ORDER TO
RECEIVE ISP.
4. THIS PROVISON WILL NOT BE USED TO SEPARATE MEMBERS WHO MEET THE
CRITERIA FOR SEPARATION UNDER OTHER, MORE APPROPRIATE PROVISIONS OF NAVY
SEPARATION POLICY. FOR EXAMPLE, A MEMBER WHO IS SEPARATED FOR WEIGHT
CONTROL AND IS ALSO INVOLVED IN MISCONDUCT OR UNSATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE
SHOULD BE SEPARATED FOR MISCONDUCT OR UNSATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE AND NOT
FOR WEIGHT CONTROL.
5. THIS GUIDANCE SUPERSEDES THE POLICY REGARDING THIS ISSUE IN REF B.
PERMANENT CHANGES TO REF B ARE FORTHCOMING.
6. POC IS LT GRANT SCHWEIKERT, N130C4 (703)614-5635, DSN/224, OR EMAIL
AT GRANT.SCHWEIKERT(AT)NAVY.MIL.
7. RELEASED BY VADM MARK FERGUSON, N1.//
BT
#0001
NNNN


If you care to know more about our desperate situation....My husband failed these test and immediately after he failed the third one I got him to medical. He was diagnosed with severe depression, High blood pressure, severe anemia, and surprisingly PTSD.
You would think that would be a light bulb moment for our command to say "Ahh, that is why he failed them" but nope. We have had to fight and fight for a year and a half to have a BOI and then a Medical Board. My husband has all of these conditions and is on 5 medications a day, has been in and out of mental health but yet the Medical Board came back "FIT FOR ACTIVE DUTY" Therefore the command released the dagger and we got separation orders...Effective in 30 Days. Hows that for telling a man with over 17 years thank you for your service? If you did read all of this, Thank you.
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

I just found this information on line and I am wondering if anyone can tell me if this looks like it is to enlisted and to officers? I feel like it is the new rule for both.

NAVADMIN: NEW POLICY REGARDING INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION PAY FOR PHYSICAL FITNESS ASSESSMENT FAILURE

2 January, 2011 (22:11) | NAVADMIN | By: admin
FM CNO WASHINGTON DC
TO NAVADMIN
NAVADMIN 420/10
SUBJ/NEW POLICY REGARDING INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION PAY FOR PHYSICAL
FITNESS ASSESSMENT FAILURE//
REF/A/DOC/DUSD(MPP)/29NOV10//
REF/B/DOC/OPNAV/20DEC05//
NARR/REF A IS MEMORANDUM FROM DUSD(MPP) REGARDING SEPARATION PROGRAM
DESIGNATOR (SPD) CODES.
REF B IS OPNAVINST 1900.4, SEPARATION PAY FOR INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION
FROM ACTIVE DUTY.//
RMKS/1. EFFECTIVE 1 JANUARY 2011, IN COMPLIANCE WITH REF A, MEMBERS
SEPARATED FOR FAILURE TO PASS THE PHYSICAL FITNESS ASSESSMENT (PFA)
SHALL BE ASSIGNED A SEPARATION PROGRAM DESIGNATOR (SPD) CODE ENDING IN
EITHER “FT” OR “CR.”

2. IF A MEMBER IS BEING SEPARATED SOLELY FOR FAILING THE PHYSICAL
READINESS TEST (PRT) PORTION OF THE PFA AND HAS PASSED THE BODY
COMPOSITION ASSESSMENT (BCA) PORTION IN EACH OF THE FAILED CYCLES, THEY
SHALL BE ASSIGNED AN SPD CODE ENDING IN “FT” (PHYSICAL STANDARDS) AND
WILL NO LONGER BE AUTHORIZED INVOLUNTARY SEPARATION PAY (ISP).
3. IF A MEMBER FAILS TO PASS THE BCA PORTION OF THE PFA IN ANY OF THE
FAILED CYCLES, THEY SHALL BE ASSIGNED AN SPD CODE ENDING IN “CR” (WEIGHT
CONTROL) AND MAY RECEIVE ONE HALF ISP. THE SAILOR MUST BE ELIGIBLE IN
ALL OTHER RESPECTS INCLUDING THE REQUIREMENT TO SERVE IN EITHER THE
SELECTED RESERVE OR INDIVIDUAL READY RESERVE COMPONENTS IN ORDER TO
RECEIVE ISP.
4. THIS PROVISON WILL NOT BE USED TO SEPARATE MEMBERS WHO MEET THE
CRITERIA FOR SEPARATION UNDER OTHER, MORE APPROPRIATE PROVISIONS OF NAVY
SEPARATION POLICY. FOR EXAMPLE, A MEMBER WHO IS SEPARATED FOR WEIGHT
CONTROL AND IS ALSO INVOLVED IN MISCONDUCT OR UNSATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE
SHOULD BE SEPARATED FOR MISCONDUCT OR UNSATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE AND NOT
FOR WEIGHT CONTROL.
5. THIS GUIDANCE SUPERSEDES THE POLICY REGARDING THIS ISSUE IN REF B.
PERMANENT CHANGES TO REF B ARE FORTHCOMING.
6. POC IS LT GRANT SCHWEIKERT, N130C4 DSN/224, OR EMAIL
AT GRANT.SCHWEIKERT(AT)
7. RELEASED BY VADM MARK FERGUSON, N1.//
BT
#0001
NNNN



We have been fighting a year long battle of my husband failing 3 PFT's due to health issues. He is almost at 18 years and the command gave him separation orders effective in 30 days!! Then I found this new update about the separation pay and am in shock.

We are actually still looking for a lawyer and looking for ways to put a hault to this but it isn't looking good.
 

maparker

Moderator
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

Does he have a condition requiring a MEB/PEB?

Mike
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

Does he have a condition requiring a MEB/PEB?

Mike
Yes but he had a MEB after his BOI and they found him fit fir active duty. Just so they can turn around and kick him out.

His doctors diagnosed him with severe depression, severe PTSD, severe sleep apnea, severe anemia, and high blood pressure. Yep, he sounds Fit to me.

We didn't even know what PTSD was and I'm starting to think it has put a target on our head.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

Looks like it applies to all "members," i.e., enlisted and officers alike.

The language towards the end pretty much hits the issue square on the head- if he should be evaluated for disability for failing to meet retention standards (sounds like he does), then PFT failure is not correct basis to separate...and he should be processed for MEB/PEB.
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

Can we request another MEB? Is there a board to review disability while active duty? I have heard of all the VA options once he is a vet.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Did he just have a MEB or did he have a PEB as well? (MEB is local, PEB would have been processed through the Washington DC Navy Yard).
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I just looked and it was an informal PEB and after the results we requested a formal PEB and it was denied on July 27th.

Not sure if it matters but the board was out of corpus. Not at our base.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Seems to me he should challenge the separation action first (if possible). Did he have a Board of Inquiry? Did he have an opportunity to request a board and, if so, did he request it? As a separate, but related matter, he should look into challenging his separation on basis that he should have gone to MEB/PEB and have been retired.
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
We go today to meet with our base LT. Lawyer and I am trying to get every bit of questions in line for him. We have worked with this guy for a short part of this year and I just don't have faith that he knows all the ins and outs of things. ugh!

There was another LT here last year that helped us by requesting a BOI. That came out bad (Recommend Separate but should have medical look at him). Then we had a informal PEB and of course they declared him FIT.

Every single person that knows this case is in shock that they would not medically retire my husband. Although the conditions that he has can get better with treatment and medicines.

He has been on LIMDU two times for 6 months each. He has never been put on Permanent LIMDU and I wonder if he could be since there are task of his job that he can NO longer do...because of the triggers it causes his PTSD.

We are going to go to Medical and see if there is any way they will declare him Not Fit to Separate....but my husband's condition has improved over the last 3 months.

One thing that I keep hanging on to, is that everyone legally has to have a Medical clearance before they even do the PRT and if my husband would have had one then they would have seen he had high blood pressure and was not on medicine. My husband said there was a form he signed and then the doctor signed off on it, but no doctor examined him at all. He was in such a poor medical and mental health state when he signed that, I wish I could bark that he was in poor judgement to sing that.

Also, and I am just sounding off things here to see if anyone thinks of something that we could do, I am curious WHY the XO would not have sent my husband to medical after his 1st or 2nd failure? Also, when he failed his 3rd...why would the XO not request a MEB for my husband? Oh, I know why...because he could care LESS.
Wonder if I can press charges that this was not handled properly? Would the act of that put everything on hold at least?

Shouldn't my husband's command been there for him, instead of treating him like he had committed a felony and ostracizing him? Oh wait, this is the military though, right?

Sorry for my rambling. I am just venting and trying to get my thoughts together. And will appreciate any ideas anyone might think of.
 

maparker

Moderator
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I think this may turn on the evidence that his medical conditions prevent the successful completion of his PFTs. If you can state clearly and consisely why his conditions prevent him for passing the PFT, I would be glad to make an issue of this in the DC area. It sounds like another manifestation of the Navy's fit but unsuitable scheme. What did his MEB state in terms of his conditons impact on his ability to do PT?

Mike
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I think this may turn on the evidence that his medical conditions prevent the successful completion of his PFTs. If you can state clearly and consisely why his conditions prevent him for passing the PFT, I would be glad to make an issue of this in the DC area. It sounds like another manifestation of the Navy's fit but unsuitable scheme. What did his MEB state in terms of his conditons impact on his ability to do PT?

Mike
We just found out today that my husband had no current PHA prior to any PFT. That is a requirement but I don't know that it causes the 3 failures to be thrown out. the command did not follow protocol. I would hope that could get us somewhere.

3 of my husbands medical issues caused severe fatigue, weakness, weight gain, and inability to think clearly(just to pull out the top four symptoms) That is not even
counting what PTSD does to a person.

I appreciate your encouragement. We could use all the help we could get and I would be so honored for you to speak on our behalf.
 

89Falcon

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
We just found out today that my husband had no current PHA prior to any PFT. That is a requirement but I don't know that it causes the 3 failures to be thrown out. the command did not follow protocol. I would hope that could get us somewhere.

3 of my husbands medical issues caused severe fatigue, weakness, weight gain, and inability to think clearly(just to pull out the top four symptoms) That is not even
counting what PTSD does to a person.

I appreciate your encouragement. We could use all the help we could get and I would be so honored for you to speak on our behalf.
It may not get you anywhere with the Navy or the BCNR, but it just may get you somewhere in Court....

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/HORN.Wisotsky.pdf

Harmless error vs fundamental error......
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
That's interesting that they would call it a "harmless error". HA Sounds just like the Navy.

I know we will fight this and I will take it to federal court/supreme court but I just wish they would do something before October 1st. My husband makes a very nice salary and it is earth shattering to go from that to zero in 30 days. He is looking for other jobs as I type this but even if he were to find something this week, it takes more time than that to get started on the job and then get a paycheck.

We were told today that since the BOI recommended separation in August of 2010 then that was my husbands separation date....but I just don't buy that. To me a separation date is Official Orders to separate and we did not get those till last week. I wonder if they knew that if they held on to him until this year then he would not get separation pay? I'm talking about our command. I feel like it has turned in to a vendetta against him.
 

Amygal82

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

Does he use a CPAP? Lately they have been just profiling sleep apnea. The HBP and anemia is normally not considered duty restricting. He will get VA benefits for all these conditions. PTSD and depression could be MEB'd if it is affecting his work, relationship with co-workers, deployability, ect.

What is BOI?
 

maparker

Moderator
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

What conditions does he have?

mike
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

Does he use a CPAP? Lately they have been just profiling sleep apnea. The HBP and anemia is normally not considered duty restricting. He will get VA benefits for all these conditions. PTSD and depression could be MEB'd if it is affecting his work, relationship with co-workers, deployability, ect.

What is BOI?

BOI is Board of Inquiry. He got a BOI to investigate if he should be separated or retained. The verdict was Separate (but he should be looked at by medical)

He does use a CPAP machine and we do not think that it prevents him from doing his duty now, but he was not diagnosed with it until we realized he had a problem. Point is, he had all of these medical issues that had Not been diagnosed and not treated so his health had gone to an all time low. He could not function to pass a PFT due to the untreated illnesses going on.

My goal is that someone would realize that a man in his condition could not have ever passed a PFT and he should have been offered a medical waiver or at least sent to medical. He wasn't sent to medical until I got involved and by then he had already failed 3. After the first or second failure you think the XO would have recommended him to medical. OR at least saw that the had NO updated PHA.
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
No separation pay for 3 failed PFT?

Mike, he has been diagnosed, and is currently on 5 medications plus a CPAP machine, with Depression (severe), PTSD (severe), also discovered he had a depletion of Iron and could not explain why he was losing Iron...so they have sent him out in town for extensive test for that, also discovered that he had high blood pressure that had gone untreated for at least a year.

He has been to BAMC for a month and then another in patient clinic for 30 days. He goes to psych every week and another doctor once a month. He has improved a great deal this year (this all melted down and he snapped March of 2010). It has been a very long year and a half. We have four school age children and we as a family have grown very strong. I'm very thankful that my husband is proactive in getting the help he needed. I just wish we all would have known this prior to the PFTs so that we could have prevented this horrible life changing experience.
 

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Well Praise be to God we got someone to listen about the separation pay. Since my husband failed the weight part of at least one of those 3 failures, then he Does get 1/2 sep pay. They are in the process of changing that code right now!!!!

Now if we could just get his retirement. HA

If anyone learns anything from this...If you fail 3 PFT's then you better fail the weight part too. Or else NO sep pay for you.
 

maparker

Moderator
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I am going to send an email to Secretary Stanley and Secetary Campbell about this. Something is not right when a military member has anemia, low iron, sleep apnea amongst other conditons and they get admin sep because they cannot perform well on a PT test.

Mike
 
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