Honorable Discharge Changed to "Uncharacterized"

It is always easier to help, once all of the information gets out.. ;)
 
From what I am reading, you should still be eligible for your severance pay, however your claim with the VA may need some assistance from a VSO.

The whole uncharacterized discharge can really create an issue later in life if you try to get federal or state employment.
 
That's what i tried to explain to my unit ...
They told me it was "Regulation"

But if i was issued an Honorable discharge .. how can they change it to uncharacterized?
 
pvt.brittenum said:
That's what i tried to explain to my unit ...
They told me it was "Regulation"

But if i was issued an Honorable discharge .. how can they change it to uncharacterized?
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Well, the regulation states that if you have not completed basic training and AIT, then they can separate you with an uncharacterized discharge. The discharge order was amended as a entry level separation (ELS).

Entry level separation (ELS): uncharacterized

Entry level separations, or uncharacterized discharge, are given to individuals who separate prior to completing 180 days of military service, or when discharge action was initiated prior to 180 days of service. This type of discharge does not attempt to characterize service as good or bad.
 
BUT ... I was given an honorable discharge through PDA ...
Isn't that the whole point of the MEB/PEB? I have 2 years of service... so this can still apply to my service?
 
gsfowler said:
Well, the regulation states that if you have not completed basic training and AIT, then they can separate you with an uncharacterized discharge. The discharge order was amended as a entry level separation (ELS).

Entry level separation (ELS): uncharacterized

Entry level separations, or uncharacterized discharge, are given to individuals who separate prior to completing 180 days of military service, or when discharge action was initiated prior to 180 days of service. This type of discharge does not attempt to characterize service as good or bad.
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Recall, though, that AR 600-200 states that disability evaluation separation/retirement takes precedence over all non-misconduct based administrative separations. So, the above would not apply.


pvt.brittenum said:
BUT ... I was given an honorable discharge through PDA ...
Isn't that the whole point of the MEB/PEB? I have 2 years of service... so this can still apply to my service?
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No, it can't. They are wrong for having separated you this way and with an uncharacterized discharge. Sounds like a local commander (whether through his own direction or through the delegated actions of staff....but, I bet you see something like "confirms VOCO of The Adjutant General, so likely, it is the TAG or a BDE Cdr) decided that he had the authority to ignore the fact that the Secretary of the Army (who delegates the decision to the PEB and/or PDA) decided you should be separated with an honorable discharge. Last time I looked, everyone else in the Army is junior to the Secretary of the Army.

So, something is very foul here.
 
Jason Perry said:
Recall, though, that AR 600-200 states that disability evaluation separation/retirement takes precedence over all non-misconduct based administrative separations. So, the above would not apply.




No, it can't. They are wrong for having separated you this way and with an uncharacterized discharge. Sounds like a local commander (whether through his own direction or through the delegated actions of staff....but, I bet you see something like "confirms VOCO of The Adjutant General, so likely, it is the TAG or a BDE Cdr) decided that he had the authority to ignore the fact that the Secretary of the Army (who delegates the decision to the PEB and/or PDA) decided you should be separated with an honorable discharge. Last time I looked, everyone else in the Army is junior to the Secretary of the Army.

So, something is very foul here.
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Exactly ... Jason is on Point
 
That's what i felt from the beginning ...
They are wrong for separating me the way that they did ...
 
As Jason said ... it was indeed a "Brigade Commander" a colonel that did the separation order.

COL. J. MARTIN LYLES
TNARNG

He obviously felt he could ignore orders from the Secretary of the Army.
And will not let them get away with giving me an "Uncharacterized Discharge"
 
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Explain a bit about what happened to you...You wrote that you were injured in basic training. Did you have a profile at that time? If so, was it a permanent profile (P3)? Were you kept on orders thereafter? Able to drill? If not, were you paid INCAP pay? Have you received your VA pay (and what was your VA ratings)? What was your separation date?
 
Jason Perry said:
Explain a bit about what happened to you...You wrote that you were injured in basic training. Did you have a profile at that time? If so, was it a permanent profile (P3)? Were you kept on orders thereafter? Able to drill? If not, were you paid INCAP pay? Have you received your VA pay (and what was your VA ratings)? What was your separation date?
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I fractured my Hip in Basic Training in 2012 .. I was Refrad back to the State off Active Duty.
I was able to drill a few months after i was discharged from Active Duty.

After a year .. my paperwork was sent to MEB/PEB
I did not receive INCAP pay because i was told i needed surgery.

I did receive a (P3) profile ... I was not kept on Active Duty Orders.

My VA rating was 10%

My Separation Date was July 25th 2014
 
A lot of issues here- trying to determine if, in addition to your severance pay, if you should have been kept on orders and/or have received INCAP pay. (Short answer, I am almost certain you should have either been kept on orders OR gotten INCAP pay; either way, if I am right, it changes the amount of money you are due likely by a great margin- perhaps many tens of thousands of dollars).

BTW, the rationale for not being eligible for INCAP pay because you needed surgery is among the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard (though, it is actually a close call; I just had a case where I got 5 years of back INCAP pay for a Soldier...one of the rationales the unit gave for refusing to process the case? "INCAP pay is not for Reservists." I almost choked and fell out of my chair at the same time when I read that; INCAP pay only applies to Reserve Component members).

Did you work in the interim? Are you in receiving that 10% pay from the VA now? (You likely should have been granted VA pay as of the date of the day after you left active duty...but this issue is somewhat more complicated and, more importantly, if you are due INCAP or active duty pay for a wrongful discharge, it is fine if you did not receive back VA compensation as that money would just be subtracted from your INCAP/active duty monies due).

I wish I could say your situation was unique. Though I don't think that there is a "systemic" conspiracy to "save money" by denying members their due (be it via INCAP denials, wrongful discharges, or failure to refer to the PEB in the first place), I think it is a systemic problem and that there are likely tens of thousands, if not more, who have been improperly denied pay.
 
How did you fracture your hip?
 
Jason Perry said:
A lot of issues here- trying to determine if, in addition to your severance pay, if you should have been kept on orders and/or have received INCAP pay. (Short answer, I am almost certain you should have either been kept on orders OR gotten INCAP pay; either way, if I am right, it changes the amount of money you are due likely by a great margin- perhaps many tens of thousands of dollars).

BTW, the rationale for not being eligible for INCAP pay because you needed surgery is among the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard (though, it is actually a close call; I just had a case where I got 5 years of back INCAP pay for a Soldier...one of the rationales the unit gave for refusing to process the case? "INCAP pay is not for Reservists." I almost choked and fell out of my chair at the same time when I read that; INCAP pay only applies to Reserve Component members).

Did you work in the interim? Are you in receiving that 10% pay from the VA now? (You likely should have been granted VA pay as of the date of the day after you left active duty...but this issue is somewhat more complicated and, more importantly, if you are due INCAP or active duty pay for a wrongful discharge, it is fine if you did not receive back VA compensation as that money would just be subtracted from your INCAP/active duty monies due).

I wish I could say your situation was unique. Though I don't think that there is a "systemic" conspiracy to "save money" by denying members their due (be it via INCAP denials, wrongful discharges, or failure to refer to the PEB in the first place), I think it is a systemic problem and that there are likely tens of thousands, if not more, who have been improperly denied pay.
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Yes, I am receiving 10% from VA now.
I was not kept on orders ... and i feel should have been.
I did not work since the injury occurred
I have a case of "Wrongful Discharge" ... and my unit has done me a great injustice.
 
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Since you did not retain an MOS and were separated from Basic, and this happens frequently, you would be separated as Uncharacterized. The issue with National Guard is that yes, under most cases after you are in 180 days you are no longer considered entry level but this only applies to federal active service. You must complete 180 days of federal active service (look at your RPAS and see if you have over 195 points, 15 are membership) then you should qualify for a characterization. Now if Tennessee processes these like we do here, they may have put you in the ING prior to separation. If you weren't in the ING and were actively drilling, speak with counsel and apply through ABCMR. They should NOT have discharged you until you received severance. Once you drop out of SIDPERS, unless you are retired and transferred out as retired, they can no longer see you or pay you. DEFINATELY contact your TAG ASAP! You need to be manually added back into SIDPERS to get your severance. I am out on the 1st. If you want, I can give you some numbers to talk to at TAG and tell you what regs you need to research. Separations are my job... until the 30th. Most guys I separate get in and a few days later are separated from Basic for some injury. I have only processed 3 severance cases and all 3 ended up uncharacterized due to the 180 day requirement but still received severance. All also got VA benefits. I wish you luck on this.
 
Were you at Ft. Benning? They screw up medical retentions and 214s ALL THE TIME. We have a guy who was arrested on a DUI after going AWOL... Ft. Benning graduated him while in jail. I think ABCMR and sitting with counsel is your best bet on this. Start with TAG and your state IG. If they aren't helping, ABCMR and counsel. Another option, you have your 214 which states severance... File an SF 95 with the staff judge advocate of your state demanding release of the severance.
 
danieldresen said:
Since you did not retain an MOS and were separated from Basic, and this happens frequently, you would be separated as Uncharacterized. The issue with National Guard is that yes, under most cases after you are in 180 days you are no longer considered entry level but this only applies to federal active service. You must complete 180 days of federal active service (look at your RPAS and see if you have over 195 points, 15 are membership) then you should qualify for a characterization. Now if Tennessee processes these like we do here, they may have put you in the ING prior to separation. If you weren't in the ING and were actively drilling, speak with counsel and apply through ABCMR. They should NOT have discharged you until you received severance. Once you drop out of SIDPERS, unless you are retired and transferred out as retired, they can no longer see you or pay you. DEFINATELY contact your TAG ASAP! You need to be manually added back into SIDPERS to get your severance. I am out on the 1st. If you want, I can give you some numbers to talk to at TAG and tell you what regs you need to research. Separations are my job... until the 30th. Most guys I separate get in and a few days later are separated from Basic for some injury. I have only processed 3 severance cases and all 3 ended up uncharacterized due to the 180 day requirement but still received severance. All also got VA benefits. I wish you luck on this.
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I definitely need those numbers to TAG and Regs.
 
I only got 148 points.

I have orders from PDA that authorize me Severance Pay ...
My NGB 22 states 2 years toward retired pay, etc.
 
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