ROM Results... Does this equal 20%?

mkew77j said:
Amazing. Never get responses on these boards
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Forward Flexion is the primary rating. 30-60 degrees equals 20% in the VASRD unless you have some other conditions. Fusion, hardware, and low back pain are all based on range of motion. If you have pain that goes beyond your back and into your legs, feet, etc. then you should request a nerve conduction / EMG test. If you have documented nerve issues, you may qualify for a rating under the sciatic or nerve codes in the neurological portion of the VASRD. If you haven't read through the VASRD (VBA 38 CFR Book C (U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs)), it will answer most of your questions regarding percentages.
 
Amazing. Never get responses on these boards
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Careful... This form has been amazing. Without it I would have been a good little airman and signed my life away in this MEB process. You may have received a better response if you started a new thread.

Ruptured Duck- Sorry for the delay... life has been busy... the valium stops the muscle spasms. It does help, that being said I only use it when needed which has not been as much lately. I have had days were I would top out at 10mg of perk, 10mg valium, 50 mg of tramadol with in an hour and still need need more drugs. The latest drug they have started me on is elavil/25mg at night. It seems at low dosage it helps with the pain, and I must agree so far it seems to be helping as long as I don't go to far.
 
It is funny. I went to sign my MEB paperwork yesterday and it also listed AGAIN OSA. I asked why it was on there as I have already been MEB'ed for OSA and she said since someone mentioned it in the paperwork it was there again. She said if you are rated for anything on your back they could give you another 10% for OSA in combination with you back surgury. I dont know how that will work out. Any ideas.
 
It could get rated if you have duty limitations due to OSA. If you are on CPAP, it is 50% rating (but again, it has to be unfitting).
 
It does not have duty limitations as it was already MEB'ed. It was return to duty with assignment limitation code C-2 to be exact. CI have had on my re-enlistment code 4k for the longest since that happened. She said the back is rated up to 40% at most. But that is based on a ROM of not more than 30. From what I wrote below, if I am reading that correctly, the forward flexation is greater than that if I am reading below correctly.

But she said since OSA is mentioned again that it could be rated 10% if the L5 fusion is rated as anything above 0%. So if the back is rated at 10% then OSA could be rated at 10%. But if L5 is rated at 0 then they probably wont assign anything to the OSA. According to my PCM he said in his report that my physical activity is completely gone and that wont never change as i have permanent restrictions.

So if the rate the back at 10 or 20 or more they will or could assign the OSA as 10% Is this correct and am i reading the below correctly. This is like greek to me and i dont understand it. What is LX F and the rest.

LX F 45A/55P Muscle guarding prevents further F
LX E 5A/10P Muscle guarding prevents further E
L LX SB 25A/P
R LX SB 15A/P

I am talking solely about the military and not the VA. I know what i am getting from the VA, but i am talking solely about what the military is going to rate.
 
That does not make sense about the OSA. It is either unfitting (or contributes to unfitness) or it is not. If unfitting, it should be rated according to VASRD.

Don't know what LX refers to, but F= flexion, E= extension, the L and the R are right and left, but they should be measuring both rotation and flexion. They appear to be missing two measurements. I would also think they need to address if guarding is causing additional limitation of ROM, per Deluca criteria.
 
Well then I dont know. All i know is the MEB for sleep apnea with cpap came back return to duty with an assignment limitation code of C-2. That was over a year ago. Whether according to the military it is fitting or unfitting I am still on the job. I was not kicked out or medically retired out.
As for the measurements I gave the ones that are on the PDF file that they gave to the MEB people. There are no other numbers and it has left the base already. As for Deluca criteria i have no idea what that is.
So if they are missing 2 numbers then I guess my MEB will be stalled then cause thats the only numbers theyve got. So if those numbers are not all that is required then i may still have a chance at the 30%, and possibly 40 with sleep apnea.
 
Package was sent to AFPC on 13 Sept 10... now I wait. I did secure Jason to represent me, the way my package is written I fully expect less than retirement from from IPEB and will have to go to the formal. Jason has been very helpful and it really took a lot of stress off of my family. On a separate note I received an MRI today, I will have the results in two days so it will be interesting to see is found. I will keep everyone posted on what is happing.

As a note: Stay away from Elavil … that stuff makes you gain weight and the withdrawal is bad if you don’t taper off. I got sick from a cocktail of drugs during an ER visit resulting from a flair up, the left me unable to eat/drink for a few days causing a cold turkey withdrawal.
 
IPEB Results In at 20%... Going to the FPEB...

Batcheej - Sorry I didn't see your post until now. I have no option for a second neurosurgeon consult as that would require a medavac. I did just have a new MRI but with out contract and it did not so any nerve impingement. Needless to say I do have some as my right leg does bother me and what not. I have been using a cane (have it on my profile also) since August at it helps.

I also received my reply from the IPEB today - 20% for lower back pain.

View Here ->http://www.pebforum.com/f117/september-package-2010-a-22114/
 
Trembly,

Glad you retained Jason, good move. BTW- Did you ever have an EMG test?

-duck
 
Nope... No EMG as of yet. When I ask I am always told its not needed/warranted. I have also never received a straight answer if I could even receive an EMG on Guam. If not I would have to be Medivac to Trippler costing my MTF about $5K in travel cost. Unless the EMG would "fix" me they have no interest in spending the money. Being on Guam has limited my treatment options and I am certain that if I was at a larger base I would not be in the pain/condition I am in right now. Then again, I am sure the Lord has a reason for all this and after going though this mess... I have no desire to stay in the AF to wear out my body some more.
 
Trembly, i feel your frustration. I have been dealing with my back issues now for 3 years at my command, and my command wrote up a NMA that basically said i was faking, even though medical said i was messed up. Problem was the IPEB agreed with my Chain of Command, which is BS. My latest ROM was alot worse than my last one.
March 2010
FF 50
BB-10
LF
Left -10
Right-15
ROT
Left-10
Right-10

Now
FF- 12
BB-10

Left -11
right-12
ROT
Left-10
Right-10

And i like you have had the whole gambit of Meds, from Percocet ( My doc is afraid i am going to be addicted to it) Been on that for over 2 years now. and a bunch of other stuff too. I am just wondering what the Navy might rate me at. I haven't been able to find how the Navy rates these things. The VA is tough to track down takes a little time. SO i am curious to see what the Navy is going to rate me at now, and how long i have since we are basically trying to change the PEB from Fit to Continue to Unfit.
 
I have been very blessed as my leadership (with the exception of the shirt or top depending on branch) has been very supportive of me. I couldn't have asked for much better. Our local Med group is another matter. I have said it before but asking Jason to help in this mess has taken a lot of stress off my family. While great legal counsel is not always the best for the short term budget this is one of those situation were a person can Not-Not afford it (Double negative intended).

From what I have read it seems the Navy is really trying to avoid MEB's and instead just hand out admin discharges and that is just straight out wrong. Fight this tooth and nail as I am sure you are. I would hate to have gone though this with my leadership against me but that would have made me more determined to fight. One of the things that has helped (on top of this amazing forum) is going to the Air Force Regs and finding out what they say and not what people are trying to tell me they say. I have never been a fan of 3rd party info as the information always seems to get screwed up somewhere.

This may not be the best laid out site but it is current. Do a search for Lumbar and you will find the percentages about half way down. -----> Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:
 
Yes i agree it would be nice if i had my CoC on my side. But you are right the Navy seems to be more concerned with Money than the welfare of it's sailors. That is just morally wrong. Yeah i like you have been doing my research ever since i was accused of starting the MEB and PEB process by my CoC. That was the kicker for a fun day. :) I hope your FPEB goes the way you want. Please let me know how it goes cause right now, if my Lawyer can't get the FPEB to over rule the IPEB, my FPEB is 30 Nov. My lawyer has new information which she thinks makes my case better because of what my CoC wrote.
 
I'm glad to hear that you have a lawyer involved the further I go in this process the more I am thankful to have one myself. I will post the result of my board on here once it is done. I will not forget and that is a promise. Failure to post your outcome is like reading a book only to find out the last chapter has been rip out or there is a scratch at the end of the DVD. Just plain sucks and is enough to make a person mad. I too want to know the come of your case. I just met a SeaBee at the local Navy hospital getting yet another X-Ray for his back. Turns out his have was given a medical separation years ago and he is starting to wonder if he is going down the same path.
 
Had a MRI-Follow up with Orto at our Navy Hospital... Great Doc, but there's not much they can do for me. That being said they are going to "try" to refer me to Tripler AMC HI to see if a Spinal Cord Stimulator would benefit me. Reason I say "try" is the fact that I have my FPEB coming up at the end of this month. The good thing is that when Navy Refers you for Medivac, they pay the bill. The Air Force here on Guam really does not like to send people off island due to the $$$, exp if they are in the process to getting out for any reason. So time will tell, and if it is God's will it will happen, if it doesn’t happen then I have the doctors notes to go to the VA with.

The most frustrating part today is with the Doc pushing on my leg a little my back has flared up resulting in me using perk. I sat at the Doc office until my Percocet started working; even then I'm walking like a 90 year old instead of a 70 year old with the help of a cane. However, I am very thankful that I CAN walk, that alone is more than others
 
FPEB Results

Its done, saw the FPEB at Lackland on 02Dec10 and had my results on 03Dec10- 20%=Medical Separation. Jason did a good job in preparing my case and the advice he gave before hand was very helpful and reassuring but in the end it seemed the board had their decision prior to me entering the room. That week of the FPEB was was either the worst or the second worst week of my life as in the amount of pain I was it and what but I am thankful it is now over. Jason would have liked to appealed to the SAF and I have no doubt that his appeal would have gave them a lot to chew on as my rating has some serious problems. That being said, we are tired, and ready to move on. We are ready to enter the VA and see what rating the give me and then fight the Board of Corrections and if need be the Federal Appeals Court.

-In the end my Prior Army Doc wrote my NARSUM to reflect a 20% or less rating and the Board did not view my ER visits at our Navy hospital as periods of incapacitation as they only wrote my disposition as "Home" and not Quarters. Additionally, the ER always wrote "Improved" in my discharge notes. Well, after 60mg Toradol mixed with Dilaudid who wouldn't be "Improved". You might ask why didn't I just go to the Air Force Clinic... as a chronic patient they have two weeks to provide me with an appointment hence why I had to see the Navy ER.

This Med-Board Process is not a nice process. I have been very blessed to have an amazing wife, supervisor, friends and church supporting our family during this entire mess. I am currently waiting on orders and will post back when I receive them so anyone out their can watch the time line if need be.
-In the end my Doc wrote my NARSUM to reflect a 20% or less rating and the Board did not view my ER visits at our Navy hospital as periods of incapacitation as they only wrote my disposition as "Home" and not Quarters. Additionally, the ER always wrote "Improved" in my discharge notes. Well, after 60mg Toradol mixed with Dilaudid who wouldn't be "Improved".

This Med-Board Process is not a nice process. I have been very bless to have a wonderful wife, supervisor, friends and church supporting our family during this entire mess. I am currently waiting on orders and will post back when I receive them so anyone out their can watch the time line if need be.
 
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