Article on ABCMR

maparker said:
http://interactive.fusion.net/a-losing-battle/
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Hmm, an interesting article, as I think "a program administered by Texas A&M University...mediates between soldiers and their chain of command to diffuse difficult situations before they end in a bad discharge" is a good idea and initiative for sure!

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer."

Best Wishes!
 
Warrior644 said:
Hmm, an interesting article, as I think "a program administered by Texas A&M University...mediates between soldiers and their chain of command to diffuse difficult situations before they end in a bad discharge" is a good idea and initiative for sure!

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer."

Best Wishes!
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Sure looks like the rules favor the house and that justice is secondary to rule #1.

This is a travesty and sure looks like this needs a serious "makeover".

This saddens me to read this, but I'm glad you posted it.

Beyond belief - SMH....

When will Congress or Senate step up with some (ANY) cojones and fix this?

nwlivewire
 
I was a major general commanding an infantry division which stormed Normandy during WWII . . .

Oh . . . none of that is true. But I said it so it MUST be true!

That's what we get on the ABCMR. People making statements which aren't supported by the documentation in their record.

I had one guy who said he was wounded in combat during the battle at Chosen Reservoir. Problem was he didn't enter the Army until after the Korean War ended. I've had countless people tell me that they SAW their medical records show a diagnosis of PTSD when they were in Vietnam in the 1960's. Problem is PTSD wasn't established as a diagnosis until the publication of DSM III in 1973.

Yes I think the ABCMR could do a better job. But try to understand what they're up against.
 
Ed Mercanti said:
I was a major general commanding an infantry division which stormed Normandy during WWII . . .

Oh . . . none of that is true. But I said it so it MUST be true!

That's what we get on the ABCMR. People making statements which aren't supported by the documentation in their record.

I had one guy who said he was wounded in combat during the battle at Chosen Reservoir. Problem was he didn't enter the Army until after the Korean War ended. I've had countless people tell me that they SAW their medical records show a diagnosis of PTSD when they were in Vietnam in the 1960's. Problem is PTSD wasn't established as a diagnosis until the publication of DSM III in 1973.

Yes I think the ABCMR could do a better job. But try to understand what they're up against.
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I totally get what you are saying.

And I also think that while there are cases where they may be obviously without merit, there are hundreds, if not thousands of possible situations and cases that can stand on correct standards of merit and justice.

And it's those cases that are what are failing to be found justifiable for correction.

And it's been this way for years.

This is what I find so disturbing.

Justice is not being done and this agency looks like a sham - plain and simple.

Just my humble opinion.

V/R,
nwlivewire
 
My frustration is the ABCMR, for PEB related case, is failing to address issues raised in the appeal in an itemized and orderly fashion as required by 10 USC 1222a. The soldier deserves to have the issues raised addressed.

Mike
 
This is similar to what I am facing. I have appealed on so many levels, but ultimately the discretion lies with the Commanders and too often they abuse their powers!
 
Unfortunately I have to agree Mike. They did the same thing with a case where I was counsel. Inexcusable.
 
This is extremely depressing. If I understand the current status of the ABCMR, there is a zero chance of getting a clearly unjust PEB corrected.

The fact that both LTC Parker and Mr. Mercanti agree takes a lot of the fun out of waiting 12 to 18 months for a decision.
 
I'm still in the trenches dealing with the Army/Guard's refusal to adhere to their own regulations, and the VA's failures to issue proper and accurate C&P exams, which because they weren't done correctly will adversely affect both the Army and VA ratings (aka. my family's financial future). I'm currently awaiting my initial PEB/VA ratings and what new battle(s) those will bring.

Throughout this long drawn out nightmare one can only hope that upon reaching a high enough level, the Regulations and the Law will eventually be recognized and followed. Such a simple and fair request should not have to wait until you have fought for months or years and spent or lost thousands of dollars to receive, and it is truly disheartening that even at the higher level of the ABCMR fairness and adherence to the Regulations and Law seems all too often denied.

I like most Soldiers in my position have no choice but to keep fighting, as our families depend on us, along with the idea that walking away from it all without justice would forever leave the hollow feeling of self defeat. So we continue to fight with whatever meager resources we can bring to bear, while the bureaucracy merely has to exist in its ineffective unjust form without the fear of accountability. Someday I hope this changes, but I'm not holding my breath.

To every one who reads that ABCMR article and has that fight looming on the horizon, do not feel defeated, do not walk away, that's what the bastards want you to do, don't give them the satisfaction. Keep your strength, adhere to your convictions, seek help where you can, and DEMAND JUSTICE, again and again, until it is finally heard.
 
FloridaInjuredInCombat said:
I'm still in the trenches dealing with the Army/Guard's refusal to adhere to their own regulations, and the VA's failures to issue proper and accurate C&P exams, which because they weren't done correctly will adversely affect both the Army and VA ratings (aka. my family's financial future). I'm currently awaiting my initial PEB/VA ratings and what new battle(s) those will bring.

Throughout this long drawn out nightmare one can only hope that upon reaching a high enough level, the Regulations and the Law will eventually be recognized and followed. Such a simple and fair request should not have to wait until you have fought for months or years and spent or lost thousands of dollars to receive, and it is truly disheartening that even at the higher level of the ABCMR fairness and adherence to the Regulations and Law seems all too often denied.

I like most Soldiers in my position have no choice but to keep fighting, as our families depend on us, along with the idea that walking away from it all without justice would forever leave the hollow feeling of self defeat. So we continue to fight with whatever meager resources we can bring to bear, while the bureaucracy merely has to exist in its ineffective unjust form without the fear of accountability. Someday I hope this changes, but I'm not holding my breath.

To every one who reads that ABCMR article and has that fight looming on the horizon, do not feel defeated, do not walk away, that's what the bastards want you to do, don't give them the satisfaction. Keep your strength, adhere to your convictions, seek help where you can, and DEMAND JUSTICE, again and again, until it is finally heard.
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Written like a true American who values the quality of his freedom (both freedom to and freedom from).

Justice is the offspring of our freedom and our social/cultural values. How much justice a person can receive is a pretty good gage at determining just how well these various "systems" mirror our freedom and cultural values - or NOT as the case may be.

Looks to me like something is broken here - the rules of law and those who interpret it in this agency - do not support true justice.

Their case outcomes do not support a just outcome. Their case outcomes subvert it.

Maparker and Ed Mercanti seem to be of one accord on one very important point in this issue.

To this agency, justice is "Just US" - and to hell with everybody else.

The rules favor the house.

And it's a "horse on you".

V/R,
nwlivewire
 
The bar set for an assumption of administrative regularity is not only absurdly high, but as anyone with an experiencing doing administrative paperwork for the military knows, just plain absurd. I tell new Soldiers never turn in paperwork to S1 without copies, it takes a min of 3 tries to get it right. Unless its something that you want to disappear, then turn it in as S1 is better than a paper shredder.

The administrative regularity creates some bizarre decisions I could never understand. I read a case where a Soldier wanted his record changed to reflect he served with a specific unit in combat, which was done incorrectly because the daily roll call record was incorrect. So he submits a sick call slip to show he was treated for wounds by the unit. Then he gets the commander to write a letter saying he served with the unit along with him, and explaining why the roll call record was done wrong. BCMR says well, we use the roll call record to prove the unit, so even though we are the sole source of correcting incorrect documents, we refuse to use anything but those same documents you say are wrong to verify the correctness of the documents, so no change. Blows my mind.

So if the military paperwork is always right and the most important source, their ability to truly examine the correctness of the paperwork is facetious at best.
 
I was asked to submit questions to the reporters who wrote the article to be asked to the ABCMR director. I also was given access to some of the FOIA responses and there are some really disturbing facts about how cases are processed (some of these issues are addressed in the article; others were not). I will post the source documents when I can. (Last 4 weeks I have been limited in ability to post much... I have been in the process of moving from CT to Florida. Movers are getting the furniture in as I write this- on my iPhone- but internet is not installed until Monday... Oh, I also had a trip to San Antonio and JBLM/Seattle for two Formal PEBs).

I wanted to just post that I strongly agree that there are very significant problems with how BCMRs are conducted and it is difficult for individuals to "win." However, if the arguments are drafted properly and the evidence is submitted, the success rate goes up dramatically. I don't track statistics closely, but my personal experience has shown success in about the 75-80% range ( though sometimes it takes going to court to force an ultimate good outcome). Problem is that most people - and very few attorneys- have experience with the BCMRs. I don't think folks should have to hire an attorney to get their due. Unfortunately, it does make a difference.

Will post more when I have a chance.
 
"Chuck Luther's original BCMR application was 487 pages long... the average time the BCMR spends reviewing each application - 3 minutes, 45 seconds."

That is fast "just-us."
 
No, but I knew of him from years ago when he was involved in a charitable organization that I briefly served on the Board of Directors.
 
I have to say the time I used the abcmr it worked well for me, I had an 8K "high grad" enlistment bonus to go O9S into Army OCS and then the army backed out and said they couldn't pay an enlistment bonus to officer candidates, I sent in my enlistment contract and a memorandum stating my case and was awarded the 8k bonus.

I think a lot of what is going on is people have poor or no. Counsel and have no clue how to state their cases.
 
I have used the ABCMR, and with "help" I was successful. The entire process from start (Filing the 149 to the board) to getting my DFAS Retirement account set up with partial backpay took from April 2012-September 2013. I feel extremely fortunate and grateful for the outcome of my case. The board gave me a partial relief, in which I had to enter the MEB?PEB process. This also meant enlisting back in the military to complete this process. After reading the decision about 10 times, I understand what the analyst are up against. I also understand they work off of the premise that the military probably did not make a mistake. So it is up to the individual filing to have "ALL" of their ducks in a row with "All" evidence. Made easy to read and understand, preferably with a chronological time line of events with a paper trail to support it. Again, this is just my experience with the ABCMR. It does take about a year to get a decision, then it takes a few months to implement the decision. I would much rather deal with the ABCMR than the VA!!
 
Tony292

I agree about people having "no clue how to state their case;" unfortunately, that results in justice that is skewed.
 
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