What are my chances of a MEB?

Camel Whisperer

Camel Whisperer

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Facts: Title 10 Orders 6/25/2020 to PRESENT
8 + years of Title 10
National Guard: 38.5 YOS
56 yrs

Medical:
LOD approved 10/30/2020: Cervical Disc Degeneration and Cervical Disc Disorder with Radiculopathy
Physical Profile since 4/07/2021
MRI: 3/22/2021 & 5/22/2021 (Cervical)
X-Ray: 1/22/2022 (Lumbar)
Artificial Disc Replacement: 1/21/2022 (C4-C6)
Findings:

Straightening of Cervical Lordosis with muscle spasm

C2-C3: Mild left facet arthropathy.

C3-C4:
Posterior disc osteophyte complex is mild stenosis. Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy contributes to mild left foraminal narrowing.

C4-C5:
Broad-based posterior disc osteophyte complex and ligamentum flavum thickening severe central canal stenosis with thecal sac 5 mm. Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy contributes to severe right greater than left foraminal narrowing.

C5-C6:
Posterior disc osteophyte complex disease contributes to mild to moderate
central canal stenosis. Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy
contributes to severe right and moderate left foraminal narrowing.

C6-C7:
Posterior disc osteophyte complex contributes to mild central canal stenosis.
Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy contributes to moderate to severe right and moderate foraminal narrowing.


Mild anterolisthesis of L3 on L4 measuring 3 mm.

There is slight disc height loss at L3/L4. Osteophytic changes throughout the lumbar spine.

Lower lumbar facet arthrosis.

Mild multilevel degenerative disc disease, most prominent at L3/L4.

Mild spondylolisthesis at L3/L4.
 
I think the probability of an MEB is high, but what would your VA rating be is the question.

The following are the biggest issues (quoting you):
C4-C5:
Broad-based posterior disc osteophyte complex and ligamentum flavum thickening severe central canal stenosis with thecal sac 5 mm. Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy contributes to severe right greater than left foraminal narrowing.

C5-C6:
Posterior disc osteophyte complex disease contributes to mild to moderate
central canal stenosis. Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy
contributes to severe right and moderate left foraminal narrowing.

I would assume you are in pain. If you are headed for an MEB, do not minimize your symtoms. I am NOT suggesting in any way that you be deceptive, rather this not the time to tough it out (aka man up). Be honest: pain, numbness, tingling, burning sensations.... Get it all om the record! If an MEB is initiated take advantage of your service's free PEB legal counsel.

Since your on Title 10, stay on Title 10. This should be automatic, but sometimes it doesn't work that way. Seek legal help if there is any attempt to remove you from Title 10 orders.
 
Camel Whisperer said:
Facts: Title 10 Orders 6/25/2020 to PRESENT
8 + years of Title 10
National Guard: 38.5 YOS
56 yrs

Medical:
LOD approved 10/30/2020: Cervical Disc Degeneration and Cervical Disc Disorder with Radiculopathy
Physical Profile since 4/07/2021
MRI: 3/22/2021 & 5/22/2021 (Cervical)
X-Ray: 1/22/2022 (Lumbar)
Artificial Disc Replacement: 1/21/2022 (C4-C6)
Findings:

Straightening of Cervical Lordosis with muscle spasm

C2-C3: Mild left facet arthropathy.

C3-C4:
Posterior disc osteophyte complex is mild stenosis. Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy contributes to mild left foraminal narrowing.

C4-C5:
Broad-based posterior disc osteophyte complex and ligamentum flavum thickening severe central canal stenosis with thecal sac 5 mm. Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy contributes to severe right greater than left foraminal narrowing.

C5-C6:
Posterior disc osteophyte complex disease contributes to mild to moderate
central canal stenosis. Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy
contributes to severe right and moderate left foraminal narrowing.

C6-C7:
Posterior disc osteophyte complex contributes to mild central canal stenosis.
Uncovertebral spurring and facet arthropathy contributes to moderate to severe right and moderate foraminal narrowing.


Mild anterolisthesis of L3 on L4 measuring 3 mm.

There is slight disc height loss at L3/L4. Osteophytic changes throughout the lumbar spine.

Lower lumbar facet arthrosis.

Mild multilevel degenerative disc disease, most prominent at L3/L4.

Mild spondylolisthesis at L3/L4.
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Since you are very close to getting to your non regular retirement age you are good either way. If rated 20% or less DOD you can decline severance and you can apply for non regular retirement in the very near future. If rated 30% or higher you will medically retire immediately and get the higher between the DOD% and your longevity earned which is your total points divided by 360 times 2.5%.
 
I am expecting to be DA Select for Officer Promotion this April 2022. I am in the National Guard currently on Title 10 (12301 H) orders with the distinct possibility of starting the MEB/PEB in April 2022. Is there anything that prohibits me from accepting my DA promotion at any time during the IDES process? Thanks!
 
Camel Whisperer said:
I am expecting to be DA Select for Officer Promotion this April 2022. I am in the National Guard currently on Title 10 (12301 H) orders with the distinct possibility of starting the MEB/PEB in April 2022. Is there anything that prohibits me from accepting my DA promotion at any time during the IDES process? Thanks!
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They are totally unrelated. My wife was just promoted to Major even though she is in IDES.
 
I am very close to a full year (continuous) on my physical profile (April 17th). I have a meeting with my PCM next week. Spine doctor says I am not ready for physical therapy post neck surgery (21 Jan 2022) and may be clear to begin physical therapy sessions next month (after April 17th). Physical therapy appointments will extend way past my physical profile yearly anniversary by a couple months or more depending on success of therapy treatments. I am still in post-surgery pain with neck pain, neck stiffness, tingling, Left arm/shoulder and lower back pain. Spine Doctor says these symptoms may improve over months, years or stay permanent. The Spine Doctor indicated I may require future surgeries on other cervical areas (not operated on) but that depends how progressively worse my condition becomes overtime (could be months or years) with physical stressors and aging. I sense the PCM may address a MEB. And if so, is it acceptable for me to express to the PCM that there are merits to begin MEB considerations for me during my appointment next week? My honest opinion is that I will never be able to perform the new Army Physical Fitness test, won't be able to deploy and for sure never be able to wear body armor with Kevlar/Weapon. The PCM office has requested I send a request to the Spine Doctor's office for release of all medical records be sent to them. I have done so. I feel the drumbeats of a MEB. Any advice as to how I should engage my conversation with the PCM would be greatly appreciated. Have a great day!
 
Camel Whisperer said:
I am very close to a full year (continuous) on my physical profile (April 17th). I have a meeting with my PCM next week. Spine doctor says I am not ready for physical therapy post neck surgery (21 Jan 2022) and may be clear to begin physical therapy sessions next month (after April 17th). Physical therapy appointments will extend way past my physical profile yearly anniversary by a couple months or more depending on success of therapy treatments. I am still in post-surgery pain with neck pain, neck stiffness, tingling, Left arm/shoulder and lower back pain. Spine Doctor says these symptoms may improve over months, years or stay permanent. The Spine Doctor indicated I may require future surgeries on other cervical areas (not operated on) but that depends how progressively worse my condition becomes overtime (could be months or years) with physical stressors and aging. I sense the PCM may address a MEB. And if so, is it acceptable for me to express to the PCM that there are merits to begin MEB considerations for me during my appointment next week? My honest opinion is that I will never be able to perform the new Army Physical Fitness test, won't be able to deploy and for sure never be able to wear body armor with Kevlar/Weapon. The PCM office has requested I send a request to the Spine Doctor's office for release of all medical records be sent to them. I have done so. I feel the drumbeats of a MEB. Any advice as to how I should engage my conversation with the PCM would be greatly appreciated. Have a great day!
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I would just state that I don't think I am going to get better enough to do my job in the military since I may never fully recover. Now this is the important part... Instead of requesting a MEB state: Hey doc at what point do with throw in the towel and go the MEB route? I want to get better but don't think the odds are good I am going to recover to the point of being fit for duty. Now listen... They will tell you when its time in their opinion. If they want they can continue to have you rehab. However, now that you know the expectations you can jump through all the hoops. Once the hoops have been jumped through and you aren't better you will be a great situation to state: Hey doc we had that conversation several Months/weeks ago and I have done everything you asked but not gotten better. Is there something else we should try or is it time for a MEB?

Basically don't demand anything. Work with your PCM as part of your healthcare team and do your best to show them you are trying. When treatment doesn't work they will eventually push you into a MEB.
 
Provis said:
I would just state that I don't think I am going to get better enough to do my job in the military since I may never fully recover. Now this is the important part... Instead of requesting a MEB state: Hey doc at what point do with throw in the towel and go the MEB route? I want to get better but don't think the odds are good I am going to recover to the point of being fit for duty. Now listen... They will tell you when its time in their opinion. If they want they can continue to have you rehab. However, now that you know the expectations you can jump through all the hoops. Once the hoops have been jumped through and you aren't better you will be a great situation to state: Hey doc we had that conversation several Months/weeks ago and I have done everything you asked but not gotten better. Is there something else we should try or is it time for a MEB?

Basically don't demand anything. Work with your PCM as part of your healthcare team and do your best to show them you are trying. When treatment doesn't work they will eventually push you into a MEB.
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Thanks very much! I appreciate your advice. I look forward to my appointment with the PCM next week.
 
I will qualify for early retirement (90-day increments) during the MEB/PEB process. If found Unfit, with a DoD percentage of 30% or more, how does the medical retirement and my eligibility for immediate early retirement work? Do I have to reach back to my National Guard Retirement poc to process early retirement or will someone in the IDES process assist me? Depending on VA rating, would I qualify for CRDP as well?
 
HELP with next step?
I am an Airborne Ranger and Infantry Officer of 12 plus years, with combat deployments to Afghanistan and Africa and numerous other deployments to foreign countries (Korea, Philippines, Australia, and Kuwait). I've had chronic neck pain for 11 years following an Airborne injury sustained in 2011. Following the neck trauma, I required immediate neck surgery on my C5/C6. The procedure was a C5/C6 Disc arthroplasty and total disc replacement. I have retained hardware (titanium plates) at the C5/C6 discs. MRI confirms I currently have disc degeneration at the C4 & C7 level with chronic pain and continued weakness in my left arm and hand, radiating pain and numbness. I’ve had neck steroid shots @ C4 and T1 epidural neck injections, acupuncture, physical therapy, deep tissue sports massage, CT with Contrast, and pain management that continues to fail. The most recent MRI (April) findings showed “C3/C4 and C4/C5 Degenerative changes result in moderate left foraminal narrowing. Subsequent moderate left foraminal stenosis at C4/C5”.

Neurosurgeon, Dr. XXXX, KU Spine center:

Flexion-extension x-rays reviewed anterolisthesis at C3-4 worsening with flexion and reduce in extension.

Assessment/Plan

XX-year-old male who presents with a history of a C5-6 artificial disc replacement with progressive neck pain left arm and hand symptoms
Imaging findings reviewed the patient.
He is unable to perform any strenuous activities due to this neck pain and left arm symptoms.
I do not see a surgical intervention to help him. Recommend lifestyle and activity modifications to avoid strenuous activities which can increase the stress and strain on his neck.

I have had two left knee surgeries with continued chronic pain. After I got back from Afghanistan in 2020 I immediately had knee surgery on my left knee for the removal of torn meniscus, meniscus debridement, and again in 2022 for a re-torn meniscus, torn ligament, and baker’s cyst removal. All of this resulted with me on permanent profile (P2) for upper and lower body. I’m currently seeking treatment for Combat related PTSD. I have obstructive sleep apnea and experience daily chronic fatigue. This current profile prevents me from doing my Infantry job and especially leading troops. At what point do we throw in the towel and go the MEB route? I want to get better, but don't think the odds are good I am going to recover to the point of being fit for Infantry duty. CNP and I had that conversation 6 months ago and I have done everything asked, but not gotten better. Is there something else we should try or is it time for a MEB?

My Permanent profile (P2) states:

RESTRICTED: No lifting > 20 lbs. No jumping or Guerrilla Drill. No combatives. Load bearing: No foot march. No body armor or helmet > 30 minutes per hour when performing mission essential training or duties. Run at your own pace/distance not to exceed 15 minutes continuously. No Unit Formation Runs. This profile is a death sentence for my Infantry career and doesn't allow me to do my Infantry job.

I cannot continue to do my job and I’m in daily pain that affects all aspects of my personal and work life. I am constantly in pain. My Infantry (MOS 11A) job requires more than I can do physically. Shouldn’t this initiate an MEB since I’m unable to do my job with my physical limitations.
 
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