CRSC Affected by PEB Results?

Buck Nasty

Buck Nasty

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Hey there, I'm looking for help with my recent DA 199 and how it affects CRSC.

I received my DA 199 today with a rating I'm very happy with, and yet Section V states Non-Combat related.

Here's the crux of it: 22 years of service, 3xcombat deployments. 1xas a ground guy, 1xas an aircraft mechanic, 1x as a helicopter pilot. Issues started after my first deployment in 2004/2005. Each subsequent deployment brought with it more pain. I started seeing a physician after my first deployment, but laws only require record retention for the last 7 years. I submitted all my medical records from the last 7 years, but those dates don't coincide with my deployments. It would seem, then, that I just came out of nowhere with the pain.

I'd like to apply for CRSC as I've been found unfit and have the rating to be medically retired and am currently receiving VA pay.

I'm wondering if it's doable to get awarded CRSC if the PEB found the conditions to be not combat related. If instrumentality of war includes helicopters, and Army Medical documentation states the following:
Intervertebral Disc Disease (herniated nucleus pulposus, HNP) at any
spinal level is of concern in an aviation environment due to its potential impact on mission availability,
functional limitation, task distraction, and treatment side effects. Further of concern is the individual’s
increased risk in both short-term health status and in long-term progression/extent from G-Forces,
ejections, hard-landings, prolonged sitting, frequent awkward postures, wear of heavy equipment and
career-long exposures to vibration. History of clinically significant spinal HNPs, degenerative disc disease
(DDD), spinal stenosis, conditions producing neural impingement, and spinal conditions with histories
associated radiculopathy (with or without corrective surgery and with or without current symptomatology)
is disqualifying for all classes, both Initial and Rated.

The Army acknowledges that flying helicopters exacerbates back issues. Is this enough to go on to apply for CRSC as an instrumentality of war since my medical records appear incomplete to the PEB?
 
@Buck Nasty here's the rub: if it looks like "wear and tear" the Army won't award CRSC. I'm surprised about the retention, was that a mil or civ doc you were seeing? As for the PEB finding it "not combat-related" - if you can get that corrected before getting out, do so, ASAP. Here's why: it "might" become a thing when/if the MAJ Richard Star Act gets passed. The mechanisms determining what is and is not combat-related hasn't been worked out to the best of my knowledge, however, getting this changed now is an actionable item vs once you're out, because once you're done, you're done. Short of going the ABCMR route, there's no changing the PEB findings. Now, in today's world, what the PEB or VA finds as being combat-related or not has no bearing on the findings of HRC's CRSC section. So, if you can't get it changed, don't over think it: put in for CRSC with enough supporting documentation that you can gather as close to the point(s) of injury as possible. You can also see about getting statements from any E-8/O-3 or higher from your wartime chain of command. That is not a sure bet, but it does give you something to work on.
 
RetiredColonel-MikeT said:
@Buck Nasty here's the rub: if it looks like "wear and tear" the Army won't award CRSC. I'm surprised about the retention, was that a mil or civ doc you were seeing? As for the PEB finding it "not combat-related" - if you can get that corrected before getting out, do so, ASAP. Here's why: it "might" become a thing when/if the MAJ Richard Star Act gets passed. The mechanisms determining what is and is not combat-related hasn't been worked out to the best of my knowledge, however, getting this changed now is an actionable item vs once you're out, because once you're done, you're done. Short of going the ABCMR route, there's no changing the PEB findings. Now, in today's world, what the PEB or VA finds as being combat-related or not has no bearing on the findings of HRC's CRSC section. So, if you can't get it changed, don't over think it: put in for CRSC with enough supporting documentation that you can gather as close to the point(s) of injury as possible. You can also see about getting statements from any E-8/O-3 or higher from your wartime chain of command. That is not a sure bet, but it does give you something to work on.
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I’m really becoming pessimistic about MRSA ever passing. It seems to have lost a lot of steam. I hope I’m wrong.
 
RetiredColonel-MikeT said:
@Buck Nasty here's the rub: if it looks like "wear and tear" the Army won't award CRSC. I'm surprised about the retention, was that a mil or civ doc you were seeing? As for the PEB finding it "not combat-related" - if you can get that corrected before getting out, do so, ASAP. Here's why: it "might" become a thing when/if the MAJ Richard Star Act gets passed. The mechanisms determining what is and is not combat-related hasn't been worked out to the best of my knowledge, however, getting this changed now is an actionable item vs once you're out, because once you're done, you're done. Short of going the ABCMR route, there's no changing the PEB findings. Now, in today's world, what the PEB or VA finds as being combat-related or not has no bearing on the findings of HRC's CRSC section. So, if you can't get it changed, don't over think it: put in for CRSC with enough supporting documentation that you can gather as close to the point(s) of injury as possible. You can also see about getting statements from any E-8/O-3 or higher from your wartime chain of command. That is not a sure bet, but it does give you something to work on.
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Civilian docs. I am National Guard so all my medical documents, outside of deployment, are civilian and they only have a 7 year retention policy. I've mentioned the back pain on pre/post deployment documents before, even have MRIs that predate their findings but for some reason they didn't correlate it to anything in service. As far as Major Star Act, I don't see it going it getting approved, but if it does, you're right, it's specifically for combat related injuries. If approved CRSC is enough to prove that then hey that's great, but as you say, if the trigger is something else, I want to be prepared for that.
 
It is far better to apply for a single event. As stated above wear and tear will not get you CRSC.
 
chaplaincharlie said:
It is far better to apply for a single event. As stated above wear and tear will not get you CRSC.
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I do have an event, but only with statements from officers, no in service documentation until the end of the deployment. Is that shaky ground to make a case, or do you think that can work?
 
Get written statements from witness. Always keep the originals.
 
Buck Nasty said:
I do have an event, but only with statements from officers, no in service documentation until the end of the deployment. Is that shaky ground to make a case, or do you think that can work?
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They can work, unfortunately, witness statements won't help with CRSC, however, you COULD use them when requesting from your wartime chain of command, i.e., at least E-8/O-3 or above (as I mentioned earlier). Shaky? Perhaps, but I do know that HRC will use them in lieu of medical documentation. Also, if you have any combat-related awards, such as CIB/CAB/CMB/PH/BS/SS/CMoH or any award with an "A", "C" or "V" device, would help even moreso.
 
RetiredColonel-MikeT said:
They can work, unfortunately, witness statements won't help with CRSC, however, you COULD use them when requesting from your wartime chain of command, i.e., at least E-8/O-3 or above (as I mentioned earlier). Shaky? Perhaps, but I do know that HRC will use them in lieu of medical documentation. Also, if you have any combat-related awards, such as CIB/CAB/CMB/PH/BS/SS/CMoH or any award with an "A", "C" or "V" device, would help even moreso.
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I do have such awards, are you saying that for CRSC they will help?
 
Here’s an update I didn’t expect, can you help me understand this?

JAG says informal board rebuttal came back with, v4 code, putting narrative on my 199 with “occurred in combat zone.” This is instead of putting a combat code that would go on my orders.

They told me that if I got the combat code on my orders my DOD pay would be tax free, however, my buddies with the code on their orders are being taxed their DOD pay.

Does anyone know the actual benefit of combat code on orders, rather than just a statement in the narrative that would help with CRSC?

Next course of action is accept it and retire, or wait for my formal board and attempt to get the code on my orders.
 
Buck Nasty said:
Here’s an update I didn’t expect, can you help me understand this?

JAG says informal board rebuttal came back with, v4 code, putting narrative on my 199 with “occurred in combat zone.” This is instead of putting a combat code that would go on my orders.

They told me that if I got the combat code on my orders my DOD pay would be tax free, however, my buddies with the code on their orders are being taxed their DOD pay.

Does anyone know the actual benefit of combat code on orders, rather than just a statement in the narrative that would help with CRSC?

Next course of action is accept it and retire, or wait for my formal board and attempt to get the code on my orders.
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Basically they acknowledge the condition happened in combat zone. Having a condition that is unfitting and occurs in a combat zone isn't the same at having an unfit that is combat related. So I am assuming V1 and V3 are no meaning no federal tax exemption.
 
Buck Nasty said:
Here’s an update I didn’t expect, can you help me understand this?

JAG says informal board rebuttal came back with, v4 code, putting narrative on my 199 with “occurred in combat zone.” This is instead of putting a combat code that would go on my orders.

They told me that if I got the combat code on my orders my DOD pay would be tax free, however, my buddies with the code on their orders are being taxed their DOD pay.

Does anyone know the actual benefit of combat code on orders, rather than just a statement in the narrative that would help with CRSC?

Next course of action is accept it and retire, or wait for my formal board and attempt to get the code on my orders.
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Sounds like they don't agree with you that the unfitting conditions are combate related. Having combat related doesn't mean you still cant get CRSC though. They are seperate and a lot of conditions are presumptive meaning if you have a VA rating for a service connected condition and can show you were deployed to certain countries you will be automatically be approved for CRSC for those conditions.

Also, having a combat related designation from PEB doesn't guarantee that a condition will be approved for CRSC as they adhere to different statutes.
 
Provis said:
Sounds like they don't agree with you that the unfitting conditions are combate related. Having combat related doesn't mean you still cant get CRSC though. They are seperate and a lot of conditions are presumptive meaning if you have a VA rating for a service connected condition and can show you were deployed to certain countries you will be automatically be approved for CRSC for those conditions.

Also, having a combat related designation from PEB doesn't guarantee that a condition will be approved for CRSC as they adhere to different statutes.
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You're right, I just saw a thread explaining what the V Codes mean:

Disability incurred in a combat zone, but not combat-related.

V1 - No - No Federal employment benefits.
V3 - No - Severance pay taxed initially.
V4 - Yes - Severance pay not recouped by VA.

I can stay on for the formal board and hope it gets changed. Ugh.
 
Buck Nasty said:
You're right, I just saw a thread explaining what the V Codes mean:

Disability incurred in a combat zone, but not combat-related.

V1 - No - No Federal employment benefits.
V3 - No - Severance pay taxed initially.
V4 - Yes - Severance pay not recouped by VA.

I can stay on for the formal board and hope it gets changed. Ugh.
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And they could do an "Informal Reconsideration" and change it without having to do a FPEB
 
RetiredColonel-MikeT said:
And they could do an "Informal Reconsideration" and change it without having to do a FPEB
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I may have been wrong. I requested an FPEB, but they did an early reconsideration instead of the FPEB. My new evidence was enough for them to award a V1/V3 code.

I just signed up for the Facebook page and will checkout what's there for information.

Do you all know what the Federal Employment benefits are with the V1 code? I can't find anything about that.
 
Buck Nasty said:
I may have been wrong. I requested an FPEB, but they did an early reconsideration instead of the FPEB. My new evidence was enough for them to award a V1/V3 code.

I just signed up for the Facebook page and will checkout what's there for information.

Do you all know what the Federal Employment benefits are with the V1 code? I can't find anything about that.
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One person offered within this thread :
Disability incurred in a combat zone, but not combat-related.

V1 - No - No Federal employment benefits.
V3 - No - Severance pay taxed initially.
V4 - Yes - Severance pay not recouped by VA.

You probably have seen the post.

Ron
 
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