I have a total of 19 years of service with 13 years AD/AGR, and the rest as a drill status guardsman. I keep reading and hearing conflicting information regarding the ability to receive a military retirement and VA disability concurrently immediately after retiring. From what I gather, it is dependent on the individuals VA rating that would allow them to collect both immediately via the permanent disability retirement list (PDRL) and concurrent retirement and disability pay (CRDP). Is this possible? If so, how?
Can you receive a military retirement immediately after retiring as a DSG?
- Thread starter viper2152
- Start date
Concurrent Receipt (formerly CRDP)
Example: A regular component service member is retired under Chapter 61 for disability in 2020 after completing more than 20 years of creditable service under 10 U.S.C. § 1405. The member is also entitled to VA Disability Compensation based on a service-connected disability that is rated by VA as 50 percent disabling. This member may only receive concurrent military disability retired pay in an amount equal to what the member would have hypothetically received had the member retired for longevity/years of service. Any remaining amount of military disability retired pay is still subject to the waiver requirements of Title 38 United States Code (U.S.C.), sections 5304 and 5305.
Note: For Reserve/Guard members who receive their Notification of Eligibility for Retired Pay at Age 60 (“NOE”) and are later retired under Chapter 61 for disability with immediate retired pay, concurrent retired pay may not be paid until the member reaches the eligibility age that (s)he otherwise would have been required to reach in order to start receiving military retired pay. This is because there is no provision of law under which such a member would be entitled to receive retired pay before eligibility age if the member had not been retired under Chapter 61 for disability.
Reserve/Guard members who are retired under Chapter 61 for disability should contact their Branch of Service to determine their eligibility age and creditable service/points, and to ensure that the Branch of Service is in contact with DFAS so that concurrent retired pay may be started. DFAS must receive the information directly from the Branch of Service. Any recalculation of creditable service/points must be addressed with the Branch of Service.
Ron
Edited to add: A VA rating of 50% or more is also required.
Concurrent Military Retired Pay and VA Disability Compensation
Entitlement Amount (for Retirees Who Are Entitled to Retired Pay Due to Retirement Under Chapter 61 for Disability):
A military disability retiree with more than 20 years of creditable service for retirement must still waive retired pay in order to receive VA Disability Compensation. The waiver amount is the amount that the military disability retired pay exceeds the amount of military retired pay to which the member would have been entitled to receive if the member had hypothetically been retired under another law (such as the law that permits voluntarily retirement based on longevity/years of service). As a result, the amount of military disability retired pay that a disability retiree may receive concurrently with VA Disability Compensation may be limited. (Disability retirees who retired before December 31, 2013 were also subject to the phase-in described above).Example: A regular component service member is retired under Chapter 61 for disability in 2020 after completing more than 20 years of creditable service under 10 U.S.C. § 1405. The member is also entitled to VA Disability Compensation based on a service-connected disability that is rated by VA as 50 percent disabling. This member may only receive concurrent military disability retired pay in an amount equal to what the member would have hypothetically received had the member retired for longevity/years of service. Any remaining amount of military disability retired pay is still subject to the waiver requirements of Title 38 United States Code (U.S.C.), sections 5304 and 5305.
Note: For Reserve/Guard members who receive their Notification of Eligibility for Retired Pay at Age 60 (“NOE”) and are later retired under Chapter 61 for disability with immediate retired pay, concurrent retired pay may not be paid until the member reaches the eligibility age that (s)he otherwise would have been required to reach in order to start receiving military retired pay. This is because there is no provision of law under which such a member would be entitled to receive retired pay before eligibility age if the member had not been retired under Chapter 61 for disability.
Reserve/Guard members who are retired under Chapter 61 for disability should contact their Branch of Service to determine their eligibility age and creditable service/points, and to ensure that the Branch of Service is in contact with DFAS so that concurrent retired pay may be started. DFAS must receive the information directly from the Branch of Service. Any recalculation of creditable service/points must be addressed with the Branch of Service.
Ron
Edited to add: A VA rating of 50% or more is also required.
make sure to delay until you hit 20 good years. That way if you get out and don't qualify for CRSC at the very least you will qualify for it once you reach eligible age as a Guardsman. For most that is age 60 or slightly less if reduced due to qualified deployments.
Is CRSC automatic or is it something I have to fill out and submit? Who do I submit it to, DFAS?
CRSC can be applied for once you are retired. Application is sent to one’s service.
See
Contemporary CRSC Information--Also See Update at Bottom of this Resource Page <—-LINK
Ron
@viper2152
@RonG is correct. The source document that can answer all your questions - even the ones you don't know you have yet - is DoD 7000.14-R, Financial Management Regulation, Volume 7B, Chapter 63
Regarding your immediate question, I'd look to Section 4, Paragraph 4.3.1.
Hope this helps,
Joel
Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.
@RonG is correct. The source document that can answer all your questions - even the ones you don't know you have yet - is DoD 7000.14-R, Financial Management Regulation, Volume 7B, Chapter 63
Regarding your immediate question, I'd look to Section 4, Paragraph 4.3.1.
Hope this helps,
Joel
Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.
I greatly appreciate the info. My unit is telling me that there is absolutely no way I can receive my VA disability and my military retirement concurrently immediately after retirement regardless of CRSC or CRDP.
My wife was 17 year AFS AGR in the Army she maxed out compensation due to being approved for CRSC. She applied a couple months after she was medically retired. She has a 20 year letter but since CRSC clawed back everything she lost out on for the VA offset there is no need for her to do anything at age 60. She is already maxed out getting all of her longevity pension earned + VA compensation.
You would miss out on immediate pay and you would have to wait to apply for retirement age qualifying age for your Reserve retirement. There is no downside to accepting a chapter 61 pension. You do want to delay the process until you hit 20 good years. A while back a Solider went that route thinking they could later on try to medically retire. That of course didn't happen. He hit 20 good years and was put in the gray area retirement awaiting pay. He missed out on 10+ years of a monthly pension just to try to reach to good years.
YES! if you qualify immediately for your Reserve Retirement meaning you can apply for it and go into the retired reserves you will get your pension. You will also get your VA compensation since you have your 20 year non regular retirement.
That's the issue. You don't get to choose a chapter 61 retirement as an option. You would have to be referred by a doc to IDES. Having medical issues doesn't guarantee a retirement.
I'm about to embark on a similar journey. Case management initiated the day after my 20-year mark. Only 7 years AFS out of 20 total for me, the rest in the ARNG, and sitting at 90% VBA rating. Case manager's already thinking medical retirement is the likely outcome, but I still need to go through the process.
The note I've read at Defense Finance and Accounting Service > RetiredMilitary > disability > crdp (that's just beneath what @RonG bolded in the first reply) makes me leery that I'd be able to draw retirement immediately, but the consensus here is that I actually would be under Chapter 61 after a PEB with CRDP?
What I could find using @JoelPettit's source has a note: "A retired reserve member, retired under the provisions of 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61, is entitled to CRSC." under paragraph 8.5.2. "Reductions for Periods On or After January 1, 2013." I couldn't find a reference to CRDP in this instance though.
Sorry if I'm retreading already-answered content, I'm just looking for something more concrete than the note on the DFAS page that states "Reserve/Guard members who are retired under Chapter 61 for disability should contact their Branch of Service to determine their eligibility age." Thanks.
The note I've read at Defense Finance and Accounting Service > RetiredMilitary > disability > crdp (that's just beneath what @RonG bolded in the first reply) makes me leery that I'd be able to draw retirement immediately, but the consensus here is that I actually would be under Chapter 61 after a PEB with CRDP?
What I could find using @JoelPettit's source has a note: "A retired reserve member, retired under the provisions of 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61, is entitled to CRSC." under paragraph 8.5.2. "Reductions for Periods On or After January 1, 2013." I couldn't find a reference to CRDP in this instance though.
Sorry if I'm retreading already-answered content, I'm just looking for something more concrete than the note on the DFAS page that states "Reserve/Guard members who are retired under Chapter 61 for disability should contact their Branch of Service to determine their eligibility age." Thanks.
If I am reading your information correctly, below is what I came up with...
7 yrs active w/ 13 guard drilling yrs = total of 20 yrs based on points for gray area retirement
Already Rated 90% VA
Starting IDES MEB/PEB
Below are the possible outcomes pending PEB result...
If found DoD 30% or greater then Chapter 61 Medical Retirement
Immediately you would receive DoD Retirement Pay OR VA Disability based on whichever is greater.
If there is any leftover pay, you would keep that... i.e. VA pay minus DoD pay.
Potentially, if qualified, you could apply for CRSC to reclaim some lost pay - need more info to calculate.
Then at retirement age of 60 or a little earlier for some you would qualify for CRDP (which is no longer called CRDP). This would stop any CRSC and allow you to keep both your VA disability and DoD retirement that you would have actually earned anyways. That DoD amount is on your NGB 23.
If under DoD 30%, then you will be retired only under the gray area and not receive immediate DoD pay.
Dave
You may not even have to wait to max out compensation. If you are retired immediately via chapter 61 its possible for your DOD% to be high enough to equal more than the combination of your longevity pension + VA. That would be the one scenario where you can earn a pension that is more than the combination of your VA compensation and earned Guard pension.
How long have you been in? What is your expected unfitting conditions ratings?
You mentioned , "its possible for your DOD% to be high enough to equal more than the combination of your longevity pension + VA."
What would that calculation look like?
Normally for that to work out you need to be an officer or if enlisted have low points since that would be a low amount of longevity pension earned. So for example. My wife was an O4. She maxed out DOD at 75%. Her High 3 was $8,038. (High 3 calculated by adding your highest 36 months pay using active duty charts regardless if you were Active or Reserve/Guard and divide by 36). Here high 3 was $6,029. If $6,029 is higher than the combination of your earned longevity pension and VA compensation combined you have maxed out compensation. When I calculated her longevity pension earned which at 17AFS = 42.5% of $8,038 it equaled $3,416.15. $6,029 - $3,416.15= $2,612.85 If her VA compensation is lower than $2,612.85 then she has maxed out compensation. In 2022 when she retired her proposed VA compensation was 90%. That amount was less than $2,612.85 so she was maxed out.
It also, helped her realize she needed to try to get 100% VA because if she did her VA compensation would increase to $4,000 which was higher making it possible to gain more compensation via CRSC. So she worked on filing some additional claims. She actually forgot to file a claim for all of her issues. Those additional ratings got her VA% to 100%. Now that means she is missing out on about $1,400 a month. She immediately applied for CRSC and was approved for 80% CRSC. That amount using VA tables was higher than $1,400 a month so she maxed it out and got an additional check from DFAS for CRSC for $1,400 a month.
So lets say that your Chapter 61 pay is higher than your longevity pension earned + VA compensation at 100%. In that case you are maxed out and there is no way to increase compensation. Its the only time in ALL scenarios you can get more than the combination of your longevity pension earned + VA compensation. Had that been the case my wife would not have had to even apply for or care about her VA compensation since she would be maxed out for life via her chapter 61 pension. This only would make sense if you had at least 1 combat related designation by the PEB for an unfitting condition. If that's the case your chapter 61 pension was tax exempt. If that same scenario where she was already maxed out with her chapter 61 pension with out a combat related designation she would still want her VA compensation to offset some of that pension because her VA compensation would be tax exempt while her chapter 61 pension would be subject to state and federal taxes.
Excellent explanation. I fully understand what you’re mean. I definitely think i might max, since I was only an E-6 army reserve 19 years credible service with only 3500 points. I think my High 3 like $4,500. So my longevity pay is like $1,100 if that.
My question to you.
Do CRSC give rating to combat related disabilities base on how bad your symptoms are? ( ex: ptsd, with suicidal ideation, panic attacks = 70%; back pain- can barely bend over = 30%, rhinitis- no pulips =10%) or they just use VA rated #s the veteran already rated for
My question to you.
Do CRSC give rating to combat related disabilities base on how bad your symptoms are? ( ex: ptsd, with suicidal ideation, panic attacks = 70%; back pain- can barely bend over = 30%, rhinitis- no pulips =10%) or they just use VA rated #s the veteran already rated for
@teey
The CRSC Boards must use the disability rating(s) the VA assigns. This is why CRSC pay will increase or decrease if the VA later changes the rating concerning a condition for which you receive CRSC.
S/f,
Joel
Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases at Joel Pettit Law. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.
The CRSC Boards must use the disability rating(s) the VA assigns. This is why CRSC pay will increase or decrease if the VA later changes the rating concerning a condition for which you receive CRSC.
S/f,
Joel
Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases at Joel Pettit Law. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.
Oh I see, Thank you very much.