Is Medical Retirement Considered Gray Area Until 60?

N

Nelson68w

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
AGR with less than 20 years AD, but over 20 good years of reserve time with letter. I will be eligible to draw my Chapter 61 retirement at 60, and CRSC is not a factor. I know if I am medically retired retired with over 50% VA disability I will waive my medical pension and draw only my VA disability until age 60, then apply for Chapter 61 retirement and be able to receive both under CRDP.

That’s the long set up to a simple question: If I am medically retired, am I then considered to be in the Retired Reserve (Gray Area) from the date of medical retirement until age 60 for the purposes of the Chapter 61 pension calculation?
 
First of all Chapter 61 retirement is a medical retirement. The term for a Guard retirement is a non regular retirement. In all circumstances you must agree to offset to a retirement to receive VA compensation and there is no scenario where it makes sense to not accept VA compensation since it is tax free. CRDP is the restoration of that offset by restoring and paying you for the pension that was originally offset by VA compensation.

If you are medically retired you will get the higher between your earned longevity pension from the Guard and your DOD% awarded by the PEB for unfitting conditions. Lets say your pension was $1,000 and your DOD% was 70% with your HIGH 3 base being $4,000. Your retirement rolls will show each computation and pick for you the higher amount. In this case 70% of $4,000 is $2,800. Since $2,800 is higher than $1,000 you get $2,800 for your chapter 61 retirement. Now lets say in either scenario you get $3,800 from VA compensation. When you filled out the application you DID NOT check the box for box 26 because you wanted the compensation and so are agreeing to have it offset any pension you have. See link to application here: https://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/vba-21-526ez-are.pdf So $3,800 VA is higher than $2,800. It's also higher than $1,000 so in either case you will only get $3,800 VA compensation + Tricare. You will not receive any money from your pension.

Now here is where it gets confusing for Soldiers. The most you can get for CRDP or CRSC is the combination of your earned longevity pension and your VA compensation. So if you are getting $3,800 from the VA and then later on qualify for CRSC or CRDP the most you can get is $1,000 earned pension from longevity AND $3,800. So the most the max compensation possible would be $4,800.

In your case since you can't get CRDP until you can apply for for your non regular retirement you should look into applying for CRSC after retiring if medically retired via chapter 61 retirement. There are a lot of presumptive conditions that are combat related if you have deployed to places such as Afghanistan, Kuwait or Iraq etc. My wife qualified for 80% CRSC which allowed her to max out compensation without needing to wait for getting her non regular retirement and all of her conditions were exposure related such as Asthma, Chronic Sinusitis, Tinnitus etc.

To answer your question if you are chapter 61 medically retired you are on PDRL and are retired. At age 60 you would qualify for your Guard retirement and apply for it and it would replace your chapter 61 retirement. Typically the non regular pension amount is less than their chapter 61 amount but when their non regular pension amount is combined with CRDP the total amount is higher than what they are getting with Chapter 61. My wife maxed out compensation with her chapter 61 retirement, + her pension (Her chapter 61 retirement amount was greater than the VA offset so she did get some compensation from her chapter 61 pension too). So she gets 3 seperate checks each month (Chapter 61 pension, VA compensation & CRSC) but when you total it up the amount is the same amount as she would be receiving from her non regular retirement and VA compensation via CRDP. Since CRSC is tax free she nets more compensation compared to CRDP since CRDP is the restoration of the pension offset by VA compensation. So if your pension is taxed then that CRDP restoration will be taxed.
 
What would the results be for a reservist who has residual DoD disability money after the VA offset?
EXAMPLE:
(20+ YOS, reservist)
DoD @75% = 7,500
VA = 4,100
DoD Residual = 3,400
Longevity= 1,700
--------------------------------------
The person chooses VA amount, so they'd get?
1. 3,400 (DoD residual)
2. 4,100 (VA, tax free)
7,500 total

and upon retirement age (60) and CDRP eligible?
1. 3,400 (DoD residual)
2. 4,100 (VA, tax free)
3. 1,700 (longevity)
9,200 total
 
Last edited:
TortolliniShell said:
What would the results be for a reservist who has residual DoD disability money after the VA offset?
EXAMPLE:
(20+ YOS, reservist)
DoD @75% = 7,500
VA = 4,100
DoD Residual = 3,400
Longevity= 1,700
--------------------------------------
The person chooses VA amount, so they'd get?
1. 3,400 (DoD residual)
2. 4,100 (VA, tax free)
7,500 total

and upon retirement age (60) and CDRP eligible?
1. 3,400 (DoD residual)
2. 4,100 (VA, tax free)
3. 1,700 (longevity)
9,200 total
Click to expand...
If you apply for your non regular retirement you no longer get the chapter 61 retirement so in your example it would b $4,100 for VA compensation + $1,700 longevity. So $5,800. If you are a high ranking officer with a high DOD% AND low longevity earned towards a non regular pension it is possible to receive less. So in this example you would not apply for your non regular retirement at age 60 since earned longevity of non regular retirement + VA compensation is less than Chapter 61 pension.
 
Provis said:
If you apply for your non regular retirement you no longer get the chapter 61 retirement so in your example it would b $4,100 for VA compensation + $1,700 longevity. So $5,800. If you are a high ranking officer with a high DOD% AND low longevity earned towards a non regular pension it is possible to receive less. So in this example you would not apply for your non regular retirement at age 60 since earned longevity of non regular retirement + VA compensation is less than Chapter 61 pension.
Click to expand...
Very helpful! Thanks. That would save people from possibly losing money in retirement.

Follow on question: Since reservists can't receive CDRP until they'd otherwise be eligible (retirement age). If they take the VA amount and receive the DoD offset - that combo is not considered 'normal' CDRP and falls under an exception allowing reservists that combo?
 
Provis said:
First of all Chapter 61 retirement is a medical retirement. The term for a Guard retirement is a non regular retirement. In all circumstances you must agree to offset to a retirement to receive VA compensation and there is no scenario where it makes sense to not accept VA compensation since it is tax free. CRDP is the restoration of that offset by restoring and paying you for the pension that was originally offset by VA compensation.

If you are medically retired you will get the higher between your earned longevity pension from the Guard and your DOD% awarded by the PEB for unfitting conditions. Lets say your pension was $1,000 and your DOD% was 70% with your HIGH 3 base being $4,000. Your retirement rolls will show each computation and pick for you the higher amount. In this case 70% of $4,000 is $2,800. Since $2,800 is higher than $1,000 you get $2,800 for your chapter 61 retirement. Now lets say in either scenario you get $3,800 from VA compensation. When you filled out the application you DID NOT check the box for box 26 because you wanted the compensation and so are agreeing to have it offset any pension you have. See link to application here: https://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/vba-21-526ez-are.pdf So $3,800 VA is higher than $2,800. It's also higher than $1,000 so in either case you will only get $3,800 VA compensation + Tricare. You will not receive any money from your pension.

Now here is where it gets confusing for Soldiers. The most you can get for CRDP or CRSC is the combination of your earned longevity pension and your VA compensation. So if you are getting $3,800 from the VA and then later on qualify for CRSC or CRDP the most you can get is $1,000 earned pension from longevity AND $3,800. So the most the max compensation possible would be $4,800.

In your case since you can't get CRDP until you can apply for for your non regular retirement you should look into applying for CRSC after retiring if medically retired via chapter 61 retirement. There are a lot of presumptive conditions that are combat related if you have deployed to places such as Afghanistan, Kuwait or Iraq etc. My wife qualified for 80% CRSC which allowed her to max out compensation without needing to wait for getting her non regular retirement and all of her conditions were exposure related such as Asthma, Chronic Sinusitis, Tinnitus etc.

To answer your question if you are chapter 61 medically retired you are on PDRL and are retired. At age 60 you would qualify for your Guard retirement and apply for it and it would replace your chapter 61 retirement. Typically the non regular pension amount is less than their chapter 61 amount but when their non regular pension amount is combined with CRDP the total amount is higher than what they are getting with Chapter 61. My wife maxed out compensation with her chapter 61 retirement, + her pension (Her chapter 61 retirement amount was greater than the VA offset so she did get some compensation from her chapter 61 pension too). So she gets 3 seperate checks each month (Chapter 61 pension, VA compensation & CRSC) but when you total it up the amount is the same amount as she would be receiving from her non regular retirement and VA compensation via CRDP. Since CRSC is tax free she nets more compensation compared to CRDP since CRDP is the restoration of the pension offset by VA compensation. So if your pension is taxed then that CRDP restoration will be taxed.
Click to expand...
Thanks for correcting me on the Chapter 61 retirement, I’ll use more plain language since this is not my specialty, and I’ll take VA disability and CDRP out of the equation totally because it’s irrelevant to my what I’m trying to discern.

A “normal” person in the reserves serves his 20 good years at E-7 at the age of 40, gets out, and is transferred to the retired reserves. While in the retired reserve he gets no pension for the next 20 years, but when he hits age 60 he gets his pension based on the calculation of his points/360x2.5%, let’s make that 30% for the sake of this example. So he gets 30% of the average of E-7 pay for the 3 years before he was eligible for non-regular retirement pay, as if he were on active duty those 3 years. A crucial point here is he gets the benefit of 20 years worth of COLA’s factored into his amount.

My question is if a person on AGR orders with 20 good reserve years but less than 20 active is given a med retirement but then reaches age 60 and applies for non-regular retirement, is his non-regular retirement calculated the same way?
 
Nelson68w said:
Thanks for correcting me on the Chapter 61 retirement, I’ll use more plain language since this is not my specialty, and I’ll take VA disability and CDRP out of the equation totally because it’s irrelevant to my what I’m trying to discern.

A “normal” person in the reserves serves his 20 good years at E-7 at the age of 40, gets out, and is transferred to the retired reserves. While in the retired reserve he gets no pension for the next 20 years, but when he hits age 60 he gets his pension based on the calculation of his points/360x2.5%, let’s make that 30% for the sake of this example. So he gets 30% of the average of E-7 pay for the 3 years before he was eligible for non-regular retirement pay, as if he were on active duty those 3 years. A crucial point here is he gets the benefit of 20 years worth of COLA’s factored into his amount.

My question is if a person on AGR orders with 20 good reserve years but less than 20 active is given a med retirement but then reaches age 60 and applies for non-regular retirement, is his non-regular retirement calculated the same way?
Click to expand...
The mechanism for a Reserve or Guard retirement stays the same in all scenarios. They would get everything calculated at the current pay tables for at age 60.
 
TortolliniShell said:
Very helpful! Thanks. That would save people from possibly losing money in retirement.

Follow on question: Since reservists can't receive CDRP until they'd otherwise be eligible (retirement age). If they take the VA amount and receive the DoD offset - that combo is not considered 'normal' CDRP and falls under an exception allowing reservists that combo?
Click to expand...
that is correct. In fact accepting VA compensation has nothing to do with CRDP. Anyone who takes VA compensation agrees to have that VA compensation offset their pension. CRDP is just a mechanism to give back the money lost from not receiving the pension money offset by the VA compensation.
 
Provis said:
The mechanism for a Reserve or Guard retirement stays the same in all scenarios. They would get everything calculated at the current pay tables for at age 60.
Click to expand...
Thank you VERY much for your reply, that’s exactly the information I was looking for.
 
Provis said:
If you apply for your non regular retirement you no longer get the chapter 61 retirement so in your example it would b $4,100 for VA compensation + $1,700 longevity. So $5,800. If you are a high ranking officer with a high DOD% AND low longevity earned towards a non regular pension it is possible to receive less. So in this example you would not apply for your non regular retirement at age 60 since earned longevity of non regular retirement + VA compensation is less than Chapter 61 pension.
Click to expand...
What is the total of his Chapter 61 pension?
 
HIANG Officer said:
What is the total of his Chapter 61 pension?
Click to expand...
Since high disability rate was 70% he gets 70% of high 3 which is $7,500 a month. You get the higher between your earned longevity and your disability ratings. Since he is a Reservist with very little active duty time and being an officer there was a wide gap and huge pay difference between his AFS years towards a pension and his disability rating of 70%. For most that isn't the case.
 
Provis said:
First of all Chapter 61 retirement is a medical retirement. The term for a Guard retirement is a non regular retirement. In all circumstances you must agree to offset to a retirement to receive VA compensation and there is no scenario where it makes sense to not accept VA compensation since it is tax free. CRDP is the restoration of that offset by restoring and paying you for the pension that was originally offset by VA compensation.

If you are medically retired you will get the higher between your earned longevity pension from the Guard and your DOD% awarded by the PEB for unfitting conditions. Lets say your pension was $1,000 and your DOD% was 70% with your HIGH 3 base being $4,000. Your retirement rolls will show each computation and pick for you the higher amount. In this case 70% of $4,000 is $2,800. Since $2,800 is higher than $1,000 you get $2,800 for your chapter 61 retirement. Now lets say in either scenario you get $3,800 from VA compensation. When you filled out the application you DID NOT check the box for box 26 because you wanted the compensation and so are agreeing to have it offset any pension you have. See link to application here: https://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/vba-21-526ez-are.pdf So $3,800 VA is higher than $2,800. It's also higher than $1,000 so in either case you will only get $3,800 VA compensation + Tricare. You will not receive any money from your pension.

Now here is where it gets confusing for Soldiers. The most you can get for CRDP or CRSC is the combination of your earned longevity pension and your VA compensation. So if you are getting $3,800 from the VA and then later on qualify for CRSC or CRDP the most you can get is $1,000 earned pension from longevity AND $3,800. So the most the max compensation possible would be $4,800.

In your case since you can't get CRDP until you can apply for for your non regular retirement you should look into applying for CRSC after retiring if medically retired via chapter 61 retirement. There are a lot of presumptive conditions that are combat related if you have deployed to places such as Afghanistan, Kuwait or Iraq etc. My wife qualified for 80% CRSC which allowed her to max out compensation without needing to wait for getting her non regular retirement and all of her conditions were exposure related such as Asthma, Chronic Sinusitis, Tinnitus etc.

To answer your question if you are chapter 61 medically retired you are on PDRL and are retired. At age 60 you would qualify for your Guard retirement and apply for it and it would replace your chapter 61 retirement. Typically the non regular pension amount is less than their chapter 61 amount but when their non regular pension amount is combined with CRDP the total amount is higher than what they are getting with Chapter 61. My wife maxed out compensation with her chapter 61 retirement, + her pension (Her chapter 61 retirement amount was greater than the VA offset so she did get some compensation from her chapter 61 pension too). So she gets 3 seperate checks each month (Chapter 61 pension, VA compensation & CRSC) but when you total it up the amount is the same amount as she would be receiving from her non regular retirement and VA compensation via CRDP. Since CRSC is tax free she nets more compensation compared to CRDP since CRDP is the restoration of the pension offset by VA compensation. So if your pension is taxed then that CRDP restoration will be taxed.
Click to expand...
This is good stuff! Great explanation. Let me throw my situation at you and see if I’m in a unique situation or just hopeful. I have over 23 years of total service, NOE letter for guard retirement, but also AGR, have 18 years AD but processing for a Ch 61 retirement. If I can hold off until October (since I’m still AGR) I will hit 7200 retirement points (AD points, IAD points and membership points) I will NOT have my 7300 points for AD retirement until Jan 2026. If I hit those 7200 total retirement points will AFPC/DFAS consider me eligible for CRDP or will I still have to wait until Age 60 regardless? Currently approved at 50% DOD and 90% VA, currently awaiting my one time VA reconsideration, then IDES is basically done.
 
Jes said:
This is good stuff! Great explanation. Let me throw my situation at you and see if I’m in a unique situation or just hopeful. I have over 23 years of total service, NOE letter for guard retirement, but also AGR, have 18 years AD but processing for a Ch 61 retirement. If I can hold off until October (since I’m still AGR) I will hit 7200 retirement points (AD points, IAD points and membership points) I will NOT have my 7300 points for AD retirement until Jan 2026. If I hit those 7200 total retirement points will AFPC/DFAS consider me eligible for CRDP or will I still have to wait until Age 60 regardless? Currently approved at 50% DOD and 90% VA, currently awaiting my one time VA reconsideration, then IDES is basically done.
Click to expand...
There is no consensus. You should be able to qualify for CRDP but the issue is that retirement orders need to reflect 20 years AFS for you to get CRDP. So once you are found unfit and agree to findings the biggest thing is to make sure they use all of your points and convert them to AFS. Your retirement orders will show chapter 61 disability and % but it will also state your longevity pension earned and break it down for how many years, months and days AFS. You need that to show 20 years because that is what DFAS will be looking at to ensure you get CRDP.

Also, there is a workaround. Though you can't be certain ahead of time. CRSC has the same mechanism as CRDP where combat related injuries to include presumptive exposure ones can restore a VA offset. So lets say you didn't have 20 years AFS on disability orders this would be the other way to get to the same total. Side note: My wife medically retired as AGR with 17 AFS and a 20 year letter. She has to wait until age 60 for CRDP. However, she was awarded 80% CRSC and when you take the total of her chapter 61 pension after VA offset + VA compensation + CRSC she is maxed out at compensation with the same amount she would have gotten if she had immediately qualified for CRDP. The kicker is CRSC is tax free:)

So in addition to trying to ensure CRDP you should have a backup plan and research CRSC. All of my wife's conditions were presumptive meaning all she needed was to have a condition rated by the VA and proof that she was in a qualifying country. She has Asthma, Tinnitus, & Sinitutus and those 3 condition got her to 80%. There are many caps with CRSC so I believe all she needed was 50% CRSC to max out compensation.
 
Provis said:
There is no consensus. You should be able to qualify for CRDP but the issue is that retirement orders need to reflect 20 years AFS for you to get CRDP. So once you are found unfit and agree to findings the biggest thing is to make sure they use all of your points and convert them to AFS. Your retirement orders will show chapter 61 disability and % but it will also state your longevity pension earned and break it down for how many years, months and days AFS. You need that to show 20 years because that is what DFAS will be looking at to ensure you get CRDP.

Also, there is a workaround. Though you can't be certain ahead of time. CRSC has the same mechanism as CRDP where combat related injuries to include presumptive exposure ones can restore a VA offset. So lets say you didn't have 20 years AFS on disability orders this would be the other way to get to the same total. Side note: My wife medically retired as AGR with 17 AFS and a 20 year letter. She has to wait until age 60 for CRDP. However, she was awarded 80% CRSC and when you take the total of her chapter 61 pension after VA offset + VA compensation + CRSC she is maxed out at compensation with the same amount she would have gotten if she had immediately qualified for CRDP. The kicker is CRSC is tax free:)

So in addition to trying to ensure CRDP you should have a backup plan and research CRSC. All of my wife's conditions were presumptive meaning all she needed was to have a condition rated by the VA and proof that she was in a qualifying country. She has Asthma, Tinnitus, & Sinitutus and those 3 condition got her to 80%. There are many caps with CRSC so I believe all she needed was 50% CRSC to max out compensation.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I do not have any combat related disabilities so that option is out for me. Did your wife have 7200 points by chance? I’m trying to distinguish if I specifically need 20 years active- meaning actual active duty, or if since it’s a disability retirement, my 7200 retirement points ( combination of AD, Drill and membership points) will qualify me for the CRDP, since you wife has to wait until age 60 I was curious what her retirement points were at time of retirement. I’m ready to walk, but if waiting 6 Mos gives me better pay options it only makes sense to stay if possible. Thanks again!
 
Jes said:
Thanks. I do not have any combat related disabilities so that option is out for me. Did your wife have 7200 points by chance? I’m trying to distinguish if I specifically need 20 years active- meaning actual active duty, or if since it’s a disability retirement, my 7200 retirement points ( combination of AD, Drill and membership points) will qualify me for the CRDP, since you wife has to wait until age 60 I was curious what her retirement points were at time of retirement. I’m ready to walk, but if waiting 6 Mos gives me better pay options it only makes sense to stay if possible. Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Have you been deployed to any countries such as Iraq etc? If so look up presumptive conditions. All of my wife's combat related % were from things like asthma etc. No direct fire or hurt while deployed.

She had 6100 points so can't help you there.
 
Jes said:
Thanks. I do not have any combat related disabilities so that option is out for me. Did your wife have 7200 points by chance? I’m trying to distinguish if I specifically need 20 years active- meaning actual active duty, or if since it’s a disability retirement, my 7200 retirement points ( combination of AD, Drill and membership points) will qualify me for the CRDP, since you wife has to wait until age 60 I was curious what her retirement points were at time of retirement. I’m ready to walk, but if waiting 6 Mos gives me better pay options it only makes sense to stay if possible. Thanks again!
Click to expand...
You’re going to need the actual 20 years of time in, 20 years worth of points doesn’t make it happen. Wait it out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jes
Nelson68w said:
You’re going to need the actual 20 years of time in, 20 years worth of points doesn’t make it happen. Wait it out.
Click to expand...
There is an exceptions in the regulations where points can be used towards AFS only when the Soldier is medically retired.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jes
All good information but I have run into a bit of a quandry. I am a Reservist. I was on active duty (ADOS) when I began my medical board and was extended on active duty to complete the board. Just became a chapter 61 retiree a couple of weeks ago. Just recently i noticed that my pension was based on the chapter 61 limit of 75%. I have over 30 years of active duty and with my reserve time i have accumulated 12,354 creditable points. I am only 57 years old so I would have about three years before I reach 60. I have more than enough mobilization time to qualify for reduced age retirement but I don't think i have two years of TPU time to qualify because i was in the IRR for a few months.

I was found 90% combat-related disabled from PEB and I have been 100% for VA since 2017.
Clearly I should get the higher rate of time in service over the chapter 61 limit of 75%.
However, how would my retirement rate be calculated?
Do they take my active duty time and divide by 365/66 and take my reserve time and divide by 360 and add them together or do they just take my final points and divide by 360? That 5/6 point difference per year can add up to a lot after 38 years.

CAREER TOTALS:
235 (IDT)
328 (membership)
12004 (AD)
12567 (total)
12354 (creditable)
 
RangerVic said:
All good information but I have run into a bit of a quandry. I am a Reservist. I was on active duty (ADOS) when I began my medical board and was extended on active duty to complete the board. Just became a chapter 61 retiree a couple of weeks ago. Just recently i noticed that my pension was based on the chapter 61 limit of 75%. I have over 30 years of active duty and with my reserve time i have accumulated 12,354 creditable points. I am only 57 years old so I would have about three years before I reach 60. I have more than enough mobilization time to qualify for reduced age retirement but I don't think i have two years of TPU time to qualify because i was in the IRR for a few months.

I was found 90% combat-related disabled from PEB and I have been 100% for VA since 2017.
Clearly I should get the higher rate of time in service over the chapter 61 limit of 75%.
However, how would my retirement rate be calculated?
Do they take my active duty time and divide by 365/66 and take my reserve time and divide by 360 and add them together or do they just take my final points and divide by 360? That 5/6 point difference per year can add up to a lot after 38 years.

CAREER TOTALS:
235 (IDT)
328 (membership)
12004 (AD)
12567 (total)
12354 (creditable)
Click to expand...
Yes should be higher. Did you get your retirement rolls document from DFAS? Should state calculations between both and which one DFAS used. What was the 1405 time listed on your retirement orders.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top