A lawsuit, unfortunately, is what it will take for DoD to do its part.
LODs / MEB / PEB lost in the sauce
- Thread starter nomad_romad
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Good afternoon, Mr. Perry:
Yesterday i received my VA rating and informal 199 of all my conditions the only i had a P# for was Type II Diabetes all my other conditions met standards so i was found unfit for Duty because of my Diabetes and was only given 20% since i have 17 yrs, 5 months, 29 Day they are going to give me a Disability Severance Separation i do not know how to calculate that i'm an E-6 in the Army Reserve. My other is that on May 22nd 2021 During BA we were doing excessive PT which i injured my hand i told a soldier but it did not hurt to much at the time so i brought some but did not go to the medic after a couple of weeks the pain started getting worst so i contacted my primary Doctor at the VA he said go to an urgent facility that has x-ray capability this was June 6th 20221 they gave splint X-Rays showed no fractures but my hands continue to hurt my primary refer me to the Hand Surgery Clinic to be seen, I completed and LOD it was submitted then returned for correction because the digital form did not match mines and it was never corrected and resubmitted it's been over 120 days i had 3 surgeries in my left hand. in the VA rating that i got back with the 199 said that my Hand injury is not service connected because there is no LOD or any investigations. my finger tips, elbow is currently numb and i have hyper sensitivity in the palm of my hand currently getting physical Therapy please advice.
I know this is a question for Jason Perry but you don't want to accept severance. If you have 15 good years or more you will qualify for a 15 year letter. If you except severance you will lose out on your non regular retirement. You should decline severance and get issued a 15 year letter to retire when eligible. Then 6 months out from age 60 (or less with qualified deployments) apply for your non regular retirement. At that time you will get your pension and Tricare. This is a much better result than a one time check which is the result of accepting severance.
Now if i got the 15 year letter how does that work and would that affect my VA compensation.
Is there anything that can be done if the Air Force Reserve never initiated LOD's for injuries incurred while in training status? I had never heard of an LOD until I began this MEB process. I am getting no help from with this process.
Just a quick update. I had 3 LODs determined to be NILOD-EPTS-NSA by NGB. Their reasoning was that even though they agree I incurred the conditions while in a qualified duty status that "authoritative medical literature" supports the conditions pre-existed. They made this determination with zero evidence as there is none to support their determination in my military or medical record. I have already submitted my appeals based on the principle that they did not overcome the presumption of ILOD, they did not present clear and unmistakable evidence, they did not provide what, if any, evidence that they used, and they failed to recommend the conditions to the DES as mandated in the AFI.
Their remarks on the 348 are contradictory at best. The board has the burden to overcome the presumption of ILOD. They must base their decision on clear and unmistakable evidence that also must be given to me for the appeal process. All the decision makers did was put a copy and paste reply for each condition that alluded to medical literature, but they failed to quote or cite one source, doctor, or study. In many of the LODs they say things like while x conditions causation and onset is unknown it is clear your condition existed prior to service. Or, x condition is multi-factoral. Yet, they ignore any factors that are related to service such as combat stress, combat trauma, or anxiety and depression disorders. They hand picked whatever factor best supported their argument and denied all others. They dissented with my immediate commander, wing jag, and CC.
I fully expect for their egos to not allow them to do the right thing. I expect them to deny or not even grant the appeal, and my next option will be the BCMR. My appeal argument is focused on them not abiding by the AFI, and them not following procedure. We will see where this goes, but I'm in it for the long fight.
Their remarks on the 348 are contradictory at best. The board has the burden to overcome the presumption of ILOD. They must base their decision on clear and unmistakable evidence that also must be given to me for the appeal process. All the decision makers did was put a copy and paste reply for each condition that alluded to medical literature, but they failed to quote or cite one source, doctor, or study. In many of the LODs they say things like while x conditions causation and onset is unknown it is clear your condition existed prior to service. Or, x condition is multi-factoral. Yet, they ignore any factors that are related to service such as combat stress, combat trauma, or anxiety and depression disorders. They hand picked whatever factor best supported their argument and denied all others. They dissented with my immediate commander, wing jag, and CC.
I fully expect for their egos to not allow them to do the right thing. I expect them to deny or not even grant the appeal, and my next option will be the BCMR. My appeal argument is focused on them not abiding by the AFI, and them not following procedure. We will see where this goes, but I'm in it for the long fight.
Jason Perry
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This is a pervasive problem, one that I am going to get after in Federal Court (sooner rather than later). I currently am tracking an Army case and a Navy case, but am interested in including an Air Force case in pressing this issue in order to cover all three of the largest branches.
If you would like to discuss, send me a message.
@Jason Perry, I tried to send you a message, but I received an error message saying that I could not message you. I definitely would like to discuss this with you, and I would like to help out in any way to prevent this from happening to others. Let me know if there is an alternate way that you would like for me to get in contact with you.
Jason Perry
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I supersized your account (I think) and sent my own PM. Let me know if that works.
Same base and still waiting approval from 2 LODs that was sent up 6+ months ago. They have been kicked back multiple times now because the medical squadron did not code them right or didn't attach medical notes or something seemingly simple. Had surgery canceled the evening before a scheduled surgery because on a LOD issue. I am currently on my fourth contact (new hire) to handle the LOD processes but yet still no progress. The only consistent communication I have received is requesting the same medical notes time after time because they can't find them or they argue saying they were never submitted. It's been two years since the initial injury and approaching a year since aggravation to the injuries and I still have no real progress.
I have been told a DAWG was convened and my medical file sent to PEBLO (or something like that) for review. That was almost three months ago and still no contact from PEBLO or updated info from our medical squadron. It's been a rough go with this process
@jr0718, this whole process has been disgraceful. I have submitted my appeals, but I was told by the LOD PM that they have to go through a Wing Board to even see if they will send them up for consideration. They will not even refer me to the DAWG/IRILO/DES for processing. At this point the NILOD determinations really do not matter as I am covered under the 8 year rule making them ILOD. I either get ignored by the Wing and medical staff, or if I am lucky enough to be blessed with a reply it is please be patient as we have new staff. The AFI states clearly that they cannot hold up medical treatment due to administrative reasons. I am going to send another pointed email asking why I have not been referred to the DAWG/IRILO/DES with AFI citation. If that doesn't get a reply then I'll start the congressional/IG process again. This is insane all they have to do is submit the paperwork. This is not a new process, and it definitely does not hinge on new personnel. These are more delaying tactics by them. Hit me up if you need anything.
I do agree they have intentionally delayed several steps along the way and I believe they wouldn't worry about my case (or anyone else's) had I not continuously pressured them along the way. Luckily I have saved all of my documentation along the way and kept an e-mail chain of communication of each person they have placed me in contact with. I've been slowly building AFI and DoDI folders of what is supposed to take place during and after this process. It sincerely seems as if they are okay with doing the bare minimum to assist any service member. It's been an anxious and infuriating roller coaster
BLUF: Asked for status update, and I was threatened with UCMJ
Latest Update. I sent an email to my Commander requesting that he ask the MDG where I was at in the DES process. I asked that he find out if anything has been done, and if not what is the timeline to accomplish it. I made the statement that this was to have been accomplished over a year ago, and most recently the Wing CC ordered that it be accomplished. I stated that if the answer from medical was to be patient and continue to wait then my only recourse would be to go outside the wing for resolution. In the email I also provided short excerpts from the USC, DODi, and AFI. This was so that my Commander would be armed with the federal law that covers the situation I am in (LOD denial that is covered by the Eight Year Rule).
The response I got back was to "knock off the veiled threats," and to stop writing them research papers. He went on to allude that I am opening myself up to UCMJ bc when I began orders I swore that I was in sound physical and mental condition. He said that if I keep drawing attention to myself that I may receive scrutiny that I do not want. I simply replied to him that I am not making any threats. I will do what I stated in the email, and I was giving him the courtesy of informing him before I do it. I went on to say that I am not writing research papers, I copied a few sentences from the federal law so that he would know what I am fighting for.
He then called me on my way to physical therapy and confirmed to me that he was in fact alluding to UCMJ, specifically Art 15, for gaining orders for the sole purpose of receiving medical care. Intentionally defrauding the DOD by "hiding" conditions so that I could get on and stay on orders. I told him this was not the case, and that he could do what he needed to do. He told me that he is not going after me, but people within the Wing may if I continue to set fires. I told him I do not care and have them do what they will. I shared with him a conversation that I was privy to (speakerphone) wherein the MDG commander openly called me a SOB, and said that he is done with me and refused to do anything else for me. This is the same MDG commander that told me the clinic was broken beyond repair, and it will take years to fix it. I have also been told not to communicate with my Wing CC. I told my commander that I know where I stand in the Wing, and I know exactly how they feel about me.
Mind you, these "fires" I am starting is requesting that the MDG do their job. All I have have asked for was LOD initiation, waiver requests, and DES referral. This has been over 2 years of denial, delaying, ignoring, and threats.
Apparently, unbeknownst to me or my commander, the MDG had sent my packet to the DAWG. They recommended a MEB, but it cannot begin until the last LOD condition that was submitted receives a determination. This was a condition that I asked for LOD initiation back in 2020, but it did not get submitted until Feb of this year.
Latest Update. I sent an email to my Commander requesting that he ask the MDG where I was at in the DES process. I asked that he find out if anything has been done, and if not what is the timeline to accomplish it. I made the statement that this was to have been accomplished over a year ago, and most recently the Wing CC ordered that it be accomplished. I stated that if the answer from medical was to be patient and continue to wait then my only recourse would be to go outside the wing for resolution. In the email I also provided short excerpts from the USC, DODi, and AFI. This was so that my Commander would be armed with the federal law that covers the situation I am in (LOD denial that is covered by the Eight Year Rule).
The response I got back was to "knock off the veiled threats," and to stop writing them research papers. He went on to allude that I am opening myself up to UCMJ bc when I began orders I swore that I was in sound physical and mental condition. He said that if I keep drawing attention to myself that I may receive scrutiny that I do not want. I simply replied to him that I am not making any threats. I will do what I stated in the email, and I was giving him the courtesy of informing him before I do it. I went on to say that I am not writing research papers, I copied a few sentences from the federal law so that he would know what I am fighting for.
He then called me on my way to physical therapy and confirmed to me that he was in fact alluding to UCMJ, specifically Art 15, for gaining orders for the sole purpose of receiving medical care. Intentionally defrauding the DOD by "hiding" conditions so that I could get on and stay on orders. I told him this was not the case, and that he could do what he needed to do. He told me that he is not going after me, but people within the Wing may if I continue to set fires. I told him I do not care and have them do what they will. I shared with him a conversation that I was privy to (speakerphone) wherein the MDG commander openly called me a SOB, and said that he is done with me and refused to do anything else for me. This is the same MDG commander that told me the clinic was broken beyond repair, and it will take years to fix it. I have also been told not to communicate with my Wing CC. I told my commander that I know where I stand in the Wing, and I know exactly how they feel about me.
Mind you, these "fires" I am starting is requesting that the MDG do their job. All I have have asked for was LOD initiation, waiver requests, and DES referral. This has been over 2 years of denial, delaying, ignoring, and threats.
Apparently, unbeknownst to me or my commander, the MDG had sent my packet to the DAWG. They recommended a MEB, but it cannot begin until the last LOD condition that was submitted receives a determination. This was a condition that I asked for LOD initiation back in 2020, but it did not get submitted until Feb of this year.
@nomad_romad .... dude. I was seriously reliving so much of my nonsense in your last post. There are so many things wrong with this situation that it takes a 10 minute back story to even begin. If it makes you feel better, @Hawaii5-0 has a similar story of nonsense.
I was under the impression that all LODs were now being processed at the wing level and only had to go to NBG/DN2DP if it was a formal LOD for a death. It certainly sounds like everything is still the same nonsense it was when I left in 2019.
@Jason Perry, I have at least 7 FOIA requests that if ever fulfilled by the NGB FOIA office will give you more than enough ammo in federal court. Because I am not a news source, they don't have to prioritize it so I don't think I will get the first wave until April of next year. If there is a way for you to push them to the front for the sake of litigation, I would be happy to help you parce through the data to really hammer these bastards.
I was under the impression that all LODs were now being processed at the wing level and only had to go to NBG/DN2DP if it was a formal LOD for a death. It certainly sounds like everything is still the same nonsense it was when I left in 2019.
@Jason Perry, I have at least 7 FOIA requests that if ever fulfilled by the NGB FOIA office will give you more than enough ammo in federal court. Because I am not a news source, they don't have to prioritize it so I don't think I will get the first wave until April of next year. If there is a way for you to push them to the front for the sake of litigation, I would be happy to help you parce through the data to really hammer these bastards.
Latest Update:
I have sent a few emails just asking what my status is. I have been terminated from medcon against my PCM and Surgeon's recommendation. I am without pay or benefits. I am waiting on my Wing Medical to submit the MEB package. We are well over the 90 day timeline that is spelled out in DODi 13321.8. The initial Congressional inquiry from Senator Rubio's office only achieved my Wing sending me my entire medical record. I've always had access to that. I reached back out to his office to explain the dire straights that I am in right now. I wrote a heartfelt email baring my soul to his office. I included all the threats, denials, delays, and how I am outright ignored. I included the blatant disregard for USC, DODi, and AFI's. Senator Rubio sent me back an email and stated that he is going to start a new inquiry.
I have been told by my Commander that the Wing 100% wants me off their books, yet they are doing everything in their power to prolong this process. Most email responses I get if I am lucky to even get one is we'll look into it, or we thought that x had already been accomplished. Could you imagine if you were tasked to do something by your command and took months to respond to their emails, or if I then took literal years to accomplish the task. It would not be condoned or tolerated, yet this is the principle leadership operates under. Punishment would be swift and severe for me, but those in protected positions operate without repercussions. So my fight will continue.
Edit: I have been also waiting for almost a year for the VA to make a decision on my disability claim. I also never heard back on the status of my appeals for conditions NGB made the determination of NILOD-EPTS.
@Hawaii5-0 add this guy to your contact list
Update: I contacted my FSS to as the status of my LOD appeals. I was told that the appeals were all denied. The FSS says that they have a letter that I need to sign. I am geographically separated from my Wing. I requested that they email me the letter. I'm assuming the appeal was denied by my Wing CC as they are the appellate authority. This wouldn't make sense as they are also the approving authority that previously found the conditions ILOD, but when they sent the LOD's to NGB they where deemed NILOD-EPTS-NSA. My appeal focused on the fact that they did not follow procedure outlined in AFI 36-2910. The AFI states that they "shall" provide me with the evidence used to make that determination. The evidence must also be clear and unmistakable. They never provided me with any evidence. They only alluded to "medical literature." I am in the process of writing my appeal now to the BCMR. If anyone has any pointers or experience in that arena I am all ears.
I am still waiting to hear what the status is on the MEB packet. I am dumbfounded by this as the Wing CC is required to have the med group maintain and update the CC on a monthly basis as to the status of all troops with LOD's / MEB / injuries. It's in the AFI. It should be very easy to provide me with information that at best is 30 days current. If my command would just communicate with me I think we could clear this up. Instead I am kept in the dark and treated like a POS.
I am still waiting to hear what the status is on the MEB packet. I am dumbfounded by this as the Wing CC is required to have the med group maintain and update the CC on a monthly basis as to the status of all troops with LOD's / MEB / injuries. It's in the AFI. It should be very easy to provide me with information that at best is 30 days current. If my command would just communicate with me I think we could clear this up. Instead I am kept in the dark and treated like a POS.
I can't tell you how sorry I am that NGB and your Wing screwed you. You are absolutely right with everything you are asking for and it just infuriates me to no end how much injustice happens during the Pre-IDES process for Guardsmen. Please reach out to @Hawaii5-0 with a DM. He is working with his Congressman to really kick NGB in the balls for reasons such as this.
As for your BCMR, this may be a point where you want to lawyer up. I was able to successfully do mine without one but that was because I presented clear new evidence that the board didn't have when they made their judgement. In your case, you're not presenting new evidence, just that you believe that NGB / DN2DP office didn't provide you with the evidence as to why they rejected it. I'm certainly not saying don't do it, but you need to get all of your ducks in a row. You will need to submit medical literature and evidence that your condition was not NILOD-NSA-EPTS. Stating you case clearly, evidence based approach, then submitting clear medical evidence to back-up your case.
Do not use your BCMR as the moment to show how fucked up the Guard is with not following their own AFI. These people know and don't care. There are several people working on the outside that are going to trying to go to war with NGB through our representatives. If we are going to be successful, it will have to be in that direction, not your BCMR.
Also of note, you have to be incredibly patient. My BCMR from submission to fix from DFAS was 19 months. Maybe things are slightly faster now than 2019/2020, but I highly doubt it.
Godspeed.
@Guardguy11, I really appreciate your insights. As far as the BCMR I do not have new evidence outside of presenting pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov studies that clearly link the conditions I have to combat injury/exposure. My main argument is that they do not follow AFI's that they are mandated to. They are making determinations based on opinion that is not evidence based. The injustice is that they have to provide me with the evidence that they used in their denial. None was presented. Senator Rubio has already started a second inquiry that is very targeted. I truly appreciate your advice. I would not have thought to provide my own medical evidence via .gov studies had you not mentioned it. I have time on my side to make sure I cover all the bases before submitting my BCMR forms. Even though they made the conditions NILOD I am covered under the 8 year rule making them ILOD for the purposes of disability determination. I am fighting this out of pure defiance at this point. Patience is the name of the game. I am also thinking of reaching out to Gov. DeSantis as he is my Gov. My Wing is in another state, but possibly he could reach out to the MS Gov. If I could just get one small win.
I just got an email back from my FSS. They are going to send me the LOD appeal denial letters. Apparently my Wing had nothing to do with it. They were denied at the NGB A2/3/6 level by Maj Gen. Keith G. MacDonald. He was an A-10 pilot at one point. After seeing that I was disappointed as I am/was a JTAC. We have a undying love for the A-10. I guess when you get so high up you treat folks like numbers and do everything to protect the status quo. @Hawaii5-0 hit me up if there is anything I can do to help you out or to bounce strategies off each other.
@Guardguy11 you inspired some new COAs for me as well. I don't know that they will go anywhere, but I just submitted 3 FOIA requests. 1 is for the General that denied my appeals. I requested how my many appeals have been approved/denied by him and his office for the last fiscal year. The second request was to Tyndall, AFB to request the CDI report for the impaired provider that injured me. The last one was to my Wing to include any emails that pertain to me in respect to LOD/MEB process/referral. I don't know that it will go anywhere, but I have time before pulling the trigger on the BCMR request. It would be nice to have some additional evidence. I'm sure like everything else so far they will find a way to not deliver them, but no stone unturned.