MEB Referral--Legitimate or can I fight this

N

NAV LDO

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Hello all. I'll try to keep as short as possible but w/ as much info as possible. I'm a Temporary Officer Limited Duty Officer (3 yrs, 4 mos Officer/15 yrs 3 mos Enlisted-Total 18 yrs 7mos). I've recently had a Spinal Cord Stimulator (SCS) implanted 3 mos ago for groin pain stemming from an Inguinal Hernia Surgery in '09. I'm also seeing Pain Mgmt and am on pain medication, but not so much as to affect my job/performance. I expect to have full support from my CoC, but I never know.

I was referred to an MEB as my surgeon (civilian) gave me a lifetime restriction for sit-ups and my PCM (civilian PA) when signing off on my PFA waiver sheet, deemed I needed to go to a med board. She referred me to Orthopedics and I have my appointment on Monday morning. This is the 1st PFA I've requested a waiver for situps, not 2nd. I have full ROM, just some residual pain that the SCS does not cover. I'm on shore duty after completing a Sea tour and do not expect to be required to go to an operational tour again next tour (per my detailer). I have never been placed on LIMDU for my entire career.

My goal is to continue service until I am retirement eligible at 25 yrs 3 mos total (10 years commissioned) service. I want NO part of this MEB. So here are my questions:

Can I request this MEB be dropped completely by asking the Orthopedic Dr. to "override" the sit-up restriction (basically, I'll do the darn sit-ups...it's a recommendation based upon, what I believe, is "breaking" the equipment...not that I can't physically do the sit-up)?

If he won't do this, can I request to have the MEB delayed until I actually have my 2nd PFA waiver for the same condition (next Apr or so)?

If all of this is a no-go and I must proceed, is this initial appt I have the actual start of my MEB or is there another step prior? Also, I was informed by my Nurse Case Manager late yesterday, that she has not yet received all of my records from the surgeon's office yet...Can I "demand" the process not start until all paperwork/MRI is received?

Additionally, a procedure question. My PCM is not a Dr. Can I ask to see WHO exactly signed off on this requirement to have this MEB that I SO do not want? Doesn't this MEB have to started by the CO of either the clinic or hospital?

Here's the rub. I do not want to be reverted back to enlisted status and be medically retired, separated, etc. I do not want to go the MEB AT ALL, as I fear other things will come up. For instance, I had three dislocated fingers in '01 and have some limited ROM issues, an ACL Reconstruction in '04 with minimal, but some, inhibited ROM, Migraines (though infrequent, but prescribed a triptan that I actually haven't been able to take due to interaction w/ the Tramadol iI've been on fo about 20 mos now), lots of dental work, and I was referrred to a Psych, who diagnosed me with "phase of life" issues (basically, some frustration with the pain, but no psych meds prescribed).

I will not be offered a permanent commission until I am promoted to LT next Apr. Will this MEB or any LIMDU or PEB I'm referred to affect my ability to promote to LT?

Thanks to this site, I found this:

10 U.S.C. § 1372 - Unless entitled to a higher retired grade under some other
provision of law, any member of an armed force who is retired for
physical disability under section 1201 or 1204 of this title, or
whose name is placed on the temporary disability retired list under
section 1202 or 1205 of this title, is entitled to the grade
equivalent to the highest of the following:
(1) The grade or rank in which he is serving on the date when
his name is placed on the temporary disability retired list or,
if his name was not carried on that list, on the date when he is
retired.
(2) The highest temporary grade or rank in which he served
satisfactorily, as determined by the Secretary of the armed force
from which he is retired.
(3) The permanent regular or reserve grade to which he would
have been promoted had it not been for the physical disability
for which he is retired and which was found to exist as a result
of a physical examination.
(4) The temporary grade to which he would have been promoted
had it not been for the physical disability for which he is
retired, if eligibility for that promotion was required to be
based on cumulative years of service or years of service in grade
and the disability was discovered as a result of a physical
examination.


Any chance #2 or 4 of this law saves my but and I will be medically retired at my highest Temporary Grade (LTJG right now) or what I'd be promoted to automatically (LT) next Apr?

Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated--especially if someone can answer this before my appt on Monday. Thank you all in advance for assistance.
 
You can not demand anything for stopping or halting an MEB. It is out of your hands. Though there are many things that can be done to delay the MEB by using your appeals process to get you to your 20 yr mark, but 25 years is impossible in your case...
 
Thank you; I figured as much. I'll just let it run it's course, I guess, and hope it comes back stating "meets retention" and doesn't get pushed to the PEB process.
 
Just curious, since you are high-3 and will get 36 months of retirement at your O1E/O2E, why the concern about what grade you retire as? I'm the legacy Seaman to Admiral Program--Admiral Boorda's. I am at PEB right now, but actually just boarded for O4. Same situation. But like you, I have a letter from the President making me an Officer, a picture in my uniform, and high-3. I wouldn't worry too much about WHAT you retire as and what is stamped on your ID card, but just that you DO get to retire... my 2 cents.
 
That's what I'm concerned about, sir. I really don't care if it says E-8 on my ID card, so long as my High-3 computes as you say, O-1E/O-2E, not E-7/E-8...just want to make sure my family and I are covered in that respect. Additionally, I guess I can't promote until this mess is all over...O3E sure would be nice, if course, but if for some reason I'm found not retention worthy, I don't deserve the promotion anyway.

Overall, I don't see how an SCS would prevent me from continuing Naval Service, but that's not my call, I suppose.

Thank you for your response, sir!
 
No man, don't think like that. Have you seen(of course you have) some of the guys that ooze into the senior ranks? O-3 is a lock, you've got it, as long as you have a pulse at 4 years, 1 month of commissioned service. It doesn't require a board at all. Your High-3 is based on your last 36 months of base-pay, whatever that may be.

There are a few instructions you should read that may put your mind at ease a bit, starting with SECNAVINST 1850.4E. I'm about 8 months behind you, so I'm a little more worried about being found unfit then being offered severance instead of retirement. So I intend to appeal and stall at every possible juncture.

No need for formalities, we're all in the same boat in here!
 
One of my concerns here is the MILPERSMAN 1420-030 that states if an officer is pending results of a MEB/PEB or on LIMDU, that that Officer is not eligible for promotion to the next grade. So I feel kind of between a rock and a hard place. If I push to get this resolved ASAP so I can promote next April, and the board comes back finding UNFIT, I'm at just over 19 years and hoping I can retire 8-9 months later at 20 years at HIGH-3 (which I believe should be ENS/JG pay, because I won't be able to promote). If I drag the process, my promotion will be on hold until the findings come back, which is fine, but my chance at a billet I REALLY want may fall through because they will give the billet to someone else, even if I come back as FIT.

I'll do some reading as you suggest.

But for your situation, if you are about 8 mos behind me, you should be right at your 18 year mark, which should about guarantee your ability to retire at 20, correct? Best of luck to you and please let me know how it all works out. And if you have any advice, I'm all ears!
 
Ya, I've seen that before... not sure how all the databases talk to eachother, but we actually promoted 3 in the last month, all LIMDU. One was held up, but it was initiated by the command, and it was after a board selection.

And 18 years... no sanctuary unfortunately. That is only for failure to select for promotion. Its written a little weird in the instruction, but looks like 19 is the number you need to secure another 12 months. But at 18 they encourage you to "ask" to finish out your time.
 
In the 1850.4E, it specifically states over 18 years and the member can request PLD to reach retirement. I think I know what you are talking about with the 19 year mark though, since they upped the total number of years allowed in the computation of disability severance, but I can't imagine that the Navy wouldn't allow someone with over 18 years the opportunity to retire.

Where in the process are you currently?

Tomorrow I speak with the Orthopedic Surgeon, but I'm not sure if that means the process has officially started or what. The only thing I know is my PCM stated she was going to put in a referral for me to see the Orthopedic clinic to begin the MEB, but I'm not sure what that means, TBH. Does he refer me to a PEBLO or will I get contacted by one at a later date?
 
I just finished all of my appointments, I think. My boss gave the NMA... I think its as good as an NMA can be written. The e-benefits says "review of evidence". I dont know where the package stands as of yet--I haven't seen a NARSUM yet. I've got solid NMA and the Dr said on his portion that he highly recommends me admin/instructor duty to finish my career, but never allowed operational again--worrisome. I'm 6 months shy of 18, but the big difference is: when its medical, there is no 18 year sanctuary...you gotta ask, and they have to approve...during a time of budget cuts.
 
I hear you...that's my concern as well. I won't feel "safe" til I hit 20. That's why I don't feel I should have been sent to an MEB yet since I haven't hit my 2nd PFA waiver. Are you for sure being sent to an IPEB or are you still awaiting med board results? I'm still trying to figure all this out, I guess.

You'd get a nice severance, but that's a pittance (sp?) compared to O-3/O-4 retirement (depending). Wish you all the best...and please let me know your results!
 
Well, just had my appt w/ Ortho and he certainly is not going to forward to an MEB, so I guess I just keep my head down and hope my PCM doesn't push the issue. If something comes up that triggers the MEB in the future (PHA, duty screening, etc) then fine, but by then I'll be that much closer to 20. PHA in Feb and Duty Screening whenever I get orders (if necessary). I'll be doing the sit-ups next PFA, so that won't trigger it.

If my PCM does push the issue, how will I be notified...via an e-mail from an assigned PEBLO? Just curious to see what I should watch out for. Thanks all!
 
NAV LDO said:
One of my concerns here is the MILPERSMAN 1420-030 that states if an officer is pending results of a MEB/PEB or on LIMDU, that that Officer is not eligible for promotion to the next grade. So I feel kind of between a rock and a hard place. If I push to get this resolved ASAP so I can promote next April, and the board comes back finding UNFIT, I'm at just over 19 years and hoping I can retire 8-9 months later at 20 years at HIGH-3 (which I believe should be ENS/JG pay, because I won't be able to promote). If I drag the process, my promotion will be on hold until the findings come back, which is fine, but my chance at a billet I REALLY want may fall through because they will give the billet to someone else, even if I come back as FIT.

I'll do some reading as you suggest.

But for your situation, if you are about 8 mos behind me, you should be right at your 18 year mark, which should about guarantee your ability to retire at 20, correct? Best of luck to you and please let me know how it all works out. And if you have any advice, I'm all ears!
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I understand the concern of your promotion, though you may get promoted it doesn't have an effect of the high-3 unless you hold that new rank/pay for a longer period of time. If it is just a month it may be a small difference but not much maybe a few bucks.
 
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