MEB w/almost 20 years.......

LinXa1903

LinXa1903

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
I just received my NARSUM back yesterday and was found unfit due to cervical disk disease and am now being referred to the PEB.

My question is this: I have 19 years and 6 months active duty time as of right now. I will not hit 20 years until 3 September 2013. My PEB will most likely come back before then but hopefully, with my transition leave/PTDY, I can take it out past 3 September in order to get my 20 years in. When do they calculate my time in service? At the PEB or after they take in consideration my leave dates, etc?

Also, can someone still receive severance, even if they have 20 years in, if they don't receive 30% from DoD?

Sidenote: The reason I am not voluntarily retiring is because I was hoping to complete my ten years commission time, which won't be until Feb 2018.

Thanks!!
 
what branch of service are you in? The reason I ask is that the Marine Corps will ensure you get your 20. WRT to the commission piece, should only be a requirement of 8 years unless things have changed, but then again, you would be looking at quite a ways away from now. While at the same time, if you are found unfit for duty and med boarded out, that should not count against you on the service obligation. Not your fault that you have a cervical disk disease.
Not sure about the severance piece, but with you being eligible for retirement, that may play a factor into you not receiving it. Are you able to link the disease to being combat related? If so, CRSC can come into play.
 
It is very important to make it to the 20 yr mark so don't rush anything. I personally don't think you have anything to worry about but stranger things have happened. Your leave and PTDY all counts toward retirement. You will be retired at your highest rank if you are MEB'd. You will only lose your commission if you retire early, that was the way I read it when I was trying to get commissioned. If you have 20 yrs toward retirement, you will get 50% (or what you earned) of your high 3 base pay even if you only get 30%. If you are old enough to fall under the final pay then it isn't high 3.
 
Thank you both for your responses. I am in the Army, and yes, worried about not making it to 20 because that will affect CRDP as well as other benefits of being medically retired vs. severance. I just know my timeline is off and don't want the PEB to come back with severance being so close to 20 years or if the DoD comes back with 20% vs 30%.

Chuck_Jones, as far as your question about CRSC, I've never been deployed so I always thought CRSC didn't apply to me. But my PEBLO said that because my injury occured during combatives training, that it can be considered for CRSC.....still need to research the validity behind that.
 
Brother ive been waiting since june of last year, but i can tell you this my peblo told me that he had an E8 that put his paperwork in after me and had already gotten it back ! So id be honest that id drag my feet at all times!!
 
That's exactly what I'm afraid of. My PEBLO told me not to assume this will carry out until September. I can use whatever appeals processes I have available to me, but definitely not taking anything for granted. My PEBLO also said I could still get severance even if I have 20 years but that just doesn't make sense to me. That's got me a little stressed since I don't know what I can expect with CDD.
 
LinXa1903 said:
That's exactly what I'm afraid of. My PEBLO told me not to assume this will carry out until September. I can use whatever appeals processes I have available to me, but definitely not taking anything for granted. My PEBLO also said I could still get severance even if I have 20 years but that just doesn't make sense to me. That's got me a little stressed since I don't know what I can expect with CDD.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the question of interest is disability versus severance...will I get disability retirement or severance pay?

Once you are eligible for disability benefits, the severity of your condition will determine whether you receive disability retirement or are separated with severance pay.
  • Military service members rated with a 0%, 10% or 20% disability who have less than 20 years of active service or 7,200 points of combined service, will be separated with severance pay
  • Military service members rated at 30% or more, or who have 20 or more years of active military service or 7,200 points of combined service, receive disability retirement.
Moreover, disability retirement is either temporary (TDRL) or permanent (PDRL) depending on the stability of your medical condition. Disability retired and severance pay awarded to military service members who were not members of the Armed Forces on September 24, 1975, is considered taxable by the Internal Revenue Service. An exception exists for a military service member receiving separation or retired pay by reason of a combat-related injury. To that extent, the PEB will make combat-related determinations on all cases considered.

Thus, I often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer."

Best Wishes!
 
If you make it to the 20 yr mark, you won't walk away with a 20% retirement check. You earned the retirement and they can't take that away without good cause. I also agree you can't count on the fact that you will make it to the 20 yr mark just because they are slow. Sometimes thing line up just right to cause problems or it could be called Murphy's Law. I still think you should make it, just don't take any chances.
 
The magic question of the night is can anybody provide me the reference to where I can find 7200 points????
 
akbanone said:
The magic question of the night is can anybody provide me the reference to where I can find 7200 points????
Click to expand...

A "year" for DFAS calculation purposes is based on a 360 day year.

So, 360 days in a year X 20 years = 7200 days/points.

Can't remember the exact regulation/DOD regulation that says this, but that's how DFAS calculates a year.

They also use 30 days as a "month".

Must be easier for DFAS to multiply/divide by the 360/30 figures as both these numbers end with a zero.

V/r,
nwlivewire
 
EDIT; I must look at my calculations. I may be closer than personnel told me. :)

My Points History reflects 365/366 points per year.
 
At 19 yrs 6 mos, you should have no problem getting to 20.
- Take the maximum time allowable for each phase
- Request as many appointments as you can for evals and try to set them up as far out as possible
- You can request changes to your NARSUM, rebuttal, IMR = all take time
- You have 10 days to review and sign the NARSUM= use it all
- When your PEB results come back (usually 2-4 months), you can request FPEB= getting a hearing can take a month or more
- You can appeal the FPEB results and, from what I hear, SEC appeals are taking 2+ months to get lined up
- Use all of your leave

From what I have read from other Army guys/gals, the backlog is so bad that (even when a sm does everything as quickly as possible) Army MEB's/PEB's are taking longer than 6 months (on average) so, if you do everything in your power to slow it, you should have no problem.
 
Yeah I got the "you only need 7200 points". I need a reference; kinda hard to press the point home that you tell the RSO that your reference is PEB Forum. I've been thru been both main DFAS Financial Regs and practically everything else but I cant find specifically where a reg states that 7200 points equals 20 years AFS; anybody have the smoking gun?
 
Not the smoking gun, but maybe a few bullets...here are a few rough points and sources:

"A 20 year active duty retirement equates to 7200 points, with 50% of their active as retirement pay."
http://www.roa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=early_retirement_for_the_21stCentury

"Permanent disability retirement. Permanent disability retirement occurs if the member is found unfit, the disability is determined permanent and stable and rated at a minimum of 30%, or the member has 20 years of military service (For Reserve Component members, this means at least 7200 retirement points)."

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/medseparation_2.htm

"You have 20 or more years of service for the purposes of computing retired pay. A
reservist must have 7,200 or more points to qualify"

http://www.feddesk.com/freehandbooks/2012-MilitaryRetirementGuide.pdf
 
That's the issue I have been bumping into; is a 20 year retirement 7200 or 7300 points. I've heard both. Here is what I think the differences that definitively (WAG on my part) explain an Active Federal Service retirement and a Reserve Retirement. An Active Federal Service (AFS) retirement is a combination of active federal service under Title 10 and maybe Title 32 AGR (depending) time that in the end of 20 years equates to 7300 points (365*20= 7,300) A National Guard/Army Reserve retirement is just that; it is a combination of points attained by a Guard/Reserve soldier/airman maxing out drills, ATs, AFTPs, ADTs conducted under Title 32 that equate to 7200 points (360*20=7,200), however points earned during active duty are one for one meaning that Reserve soldiers/airman mobilized under Title 10 earn 1 point for each day activated. Its a confusing system, I hope somebody out there has a definitive answer.
 
akbanone said:
That's the issue I have been bumping into; is a 20 year retirement 7200 or 7300 points. I've heard both. Here is what I think the differences that definitively (WAG on my part) explain an Active Federal Service retirement and a Reserve Retirement. An Active Federal Service (AFS) retirement is a combination of active federal service under Title 10 and maybe Title 32 AGR (depending) time that in the end of 20 years equates to 7300 points (365*20= 7,300) A National Guard/Army Reserve retirement is just that; it is a combination of points attained by a Guard/Reserve soldier/airman maxing out drills, ATs, AFTPs, ADTs conducted under Title 32 that equate to 7200 points (360*20=7,200), however points earned during active duty are one for one meaning that Reserve soldiers/airman mobilized under Title 10 earn 1 point for each day activated. Its a confusing system, I hope somebody out there has a definitive answer.
Click to expand...

From what I understand, for NG/Reservists that have various points under times as AD, NG drills, etc:

It takes a combined total points of 7200 to get a retirement letter OR,

20 "Good" Years of NG service or a combination of 20 "good" years (some AD time, some regular "good" years of NG time, etc).

I was a Servicemember who spent time in the AD Navy, the Army Reserve, the National Guard, and the AD Army.

I had points from all these different places and services and years and my RPAS was a mess!

Took awhile to straighten it all out and get properly credited.

I found out that during my final year in the IDES process, that I was going to hit 20 "good" years and qualify for a retirement letter from the NG.

BUT, I also found out that in order to get my last and final 20th year to qualify for a "good" year for this retirement letter, I had to make sure I was NOT discharged to PDRL PRIOR to hitting the anniversary date as stated on my RPAS (NG Retirement Points Statement).

I had all the points I needed to qualify my last year as a good year, BUT I also had to make sure my discharge to retirement on PDRL (or TDRL) did NOT happen BEFORE my RPAS anniversary year END DATE. I saw the IDES process was slowing down - which worked in my favor, as I was able to cross that RPAS anniversary year END DATE.

So although I had the points already done for that anniversary year, I also had to NOT be discharged to PDRL before the completion of that full anniversary year end date on my RPAS.

When I crossed that RPAS anniversary year end date and started a new anniversary year (the 21st year), I did in fact complete both those requirements (minimum points requirement AND completion of full anniversary year) - just by the skin of my teeth. I got my 20-year NG retirement letter signed and dated 6 weeks prior to my discharge to PDRL.

Now I am not familiar with how it works for someone who is strictly on AD time only. But I would imagine your 20 years without any Reserve time - just straight time as an AD servicemember - I suspect you need to know what your BASD is or something similar to that.

I suspect it's not only just about the points, but it may also be crossing whatever finish line your "AD birthday" year dates are, too.

I would call DFAS early in the morning on Monday (their time zone time) and ask them.

Any others know what DFAS uses as their references to this???

V/r,
nwlivewre
 
I always thought it was 7200 active duty points to get an active duty retirement, but a guy in my reserve Sqdn has "7305" on his office door (he hit 7305 points about 4 months ago). 7305 is 20 years, including 5 leap years and he said that's really the number you need. I know that for my sanctuary waiver the personnel people said I'll need a waiver begining on/about Sept 21. That's exatly when I'll have 6574 points. Almost exactly two years later is 7305 points. I can't find anything in writng except for a USMCR memorandum dealing with sanctuary waivers. Accoriding to the memo (MCO 1800.11 dated 29 Oct 2009), an active duty retirement for a reservist occurs when the reservist reaches 7305 points.

Here's the link to the document:
http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCO 1800.11.pdf

Here's the pertinent part:
Chapter 1
Management of Reserve Marines Exceeding 16 Years Active Duty
1. General. This chapter provides detailed information on the policy, authority, overarching procedures, and effects associated with the management of Reserve Component (RC) Marines between 16 years cumulative paid Active Duty
(AD) points (5,844 paid AD points) and 20 years cumulative paid AD points
(7,305 paid AD points). For the purposes of this Order, the terms "AD
retirement" and "regular retirement" are used interchangeably.

I'm planning on 7305, personally. I wish it was 7200, but I don't think so. Hopefully somebody has something that proves me wrong.
 
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