Med retirement < 20 years, do I have retired pay entitlements?

lance-tek

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I'm totally confused right now about retirement pay, CRDP and CRSC.


After deployment I was medically retired (MEB) after 18 "good" years in the National Guard. I was given a 40% disability rating from the army and tricare. That's the last I heard from the Army.

Before I was fully retired from the military I had been through the WTU and then the MEB and all of that. So, I was working with the VA for about 4 years at the time I was finally medically retired (which was in 2016) . By this point I had been rated either 90% or 100% disability by the VA. In the end it became 100% P&T. One of those items the VA diagnosed me with and I get disability for is fibromyalgia.

It has been suggested to me that I might actually be entitled to retired pay (at age 60 minus deployment time) and also that I might be eligbile for CRSC.
I don't know how this works. Can anyone explain if I am entitled to one or the other or both? If CRSC is on the table (due to fibro being a combat-related presumed thing), how is it calculated and when would that start disbursing payments?
 
I'm totally confused right now about retirement pay, CRDP and CRSC.


After deployment I was medically retired (MEB) after 18 "good" years in the National Guard. I was given a 40% disability rating from the army and tricare. That's the last I heard from the Army.

Before I was fully retired from the military I had been through the WTU and then the MEB and all of that. So, I was working with the VA for about 4 years at the time I was finally medically retired (which was in 2016) . By this point I had been rated either 90% or 100% disability by the VA. In the end it became 100% P&T. One of those items the VA diagnosed me with and I get disability for is fibromyalgia.

It has been suggested to me that I might actually be entitled to retired pay (at age 60 minus deployment time) and also that I might be eligbile for CRSC.
I don't know how this works. Can anyone explain if I am entitled to one or the other or both? If CRSC is on the table (due to fibro being a combat-related presumed thing), how is it calculated and when would that start disbursing payments?
Hello,

You are not eligible for non regular (reserve/Ng) retired pay unless you have 20 Good Years and meet the age requirement which can be reduced (age) by certain deployments.

Disability retirees can qualify for CRSC.(Combar Related Special Compensation), even with less than 20 years AFS.

As a disability retiree who does not qualify for Concurrent Military Retirement Pay and DVA Disability Compensation,
your disability retired pay is reduced by the amount of your VA compensation (aka “VA Offset”).

Approved CRSC could replace some or all of the retired pay waived/reduced/offset.


Contemporary CRSC Information--Also See Update at Bottom of this Resource Page <—CRSC INFO LINK

Ron
 
Were you injured while on AD orders?
 
Yes, I spent nearly a year in the WTU and ended up having 2 surgeries. Then I eventually REFRAD before being put through the MEB and subsequently, medically retired at 20 yr and 4 months. But my first two years did not count as "good" years for retirement.
 
Yes, I spent nearly a year in the WTU and ended up having 2 surgeries. Then I eventually REFRAD before being put through the MEB and subsequently, medically retired at 20 yr and 4 months. But my first two years did not count as "good" years for retirement.
Hello @lance-tek

Your retirement orders will show your active duty equivalent under DISABILITY RETIREMENT: xx years xx months.

20 Good Years is required for a reserve/NG retirement. Guardsmen and Reservists earn points toward retirement by performing their regular duties. If they earn a minimum of 50 points in a year, they accrue a qualifying year, or "good year." Once they have 20 qualifying years, they're eligible for retirement benefits.

Since you reported you do not have 20 good years, the Concurrent Military Retirement Pay and DVA Disability Compensation
is not a factor for you.

If approved for CRSC, the active duty equivalent x 2.5% (legacy retirement) or x 2.0% (Blended retirement) = longevity multiplier.
High three average base pay x longevity multiplier = hypothetical longevity portion of retirement pay. That is one of the CRSC ceilings.

Generally, disability retirees receive the lesser/lower amount of
—hypothetical longevity amount
OR
—the amount for approved CRSC percentage using the VA compensation tables.

Ron
 
@RonG

I'm circling back to this thread and providing as much detail as I can. DFAS told me essentially to check back when I'm 60

Born March '79 (currently 45)
Joined April '96 (first 2 yrs had less than 50 points each)
Retired July '16
National Guard with 18 qualifying years (did not make it to 20)
Chapter 61 Med Retirement PDRL
PEB Rated at 40% (for 2 conditions)
VA Rated at 100% (for 17 conditions)

Currently receiving benefits from VA only.
I have never received any retired pay from the military.
I have never received any disability pay from the military.
I have never received any severance/settlement from the military (like if I would have been 20%).

DFAS told me I'm not eligible for any benefits.

Started looking into all of this after I was told that my (VA SC) Fibromyalgia was a presumed condition that qualified for CRSC.

Once I started researching it, I keep getting confusing results. (such as Reserve Component soldiers with less than 20 qualifying years who are getting CRSC)

From my retirement orders:
Retired grade of rank: E-7
Authorized place of retirement: Not Applicable
Percentage of disability: 40%
Retirement type and allotment code: 12
Component: ARNG
Authority: AR 635-40
Statute authorizing retirement: 1204
Other eligible laws: Not Applicable
Disability retirement: 06 Year(s), 06 Month(s), 04 Day(s)
Basic Pay: 20 Year(s), 03 Month(s), 10 Day(s)
Completed over 4 years of active service as Enl or WO: N/A
Disability is based on injury or disease received in LOD as a direct result of Armed Conflict or caused by an
instrumentality of war and incurred in the LOD during a war period as defined by law: NO
Member of an armed force on 24 Sep 75: NO
Disability resulted from a combat related injury as defined in 26 USC 104: NO
Format: 687
 

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Hello,

Did you retire under 10 U.S.C. §12731b ?

The FY2008 NDAA included almost all reserve disability retirees in the eligible CRSC population except those retired under 10 U.S.C. §12731b, which allows reservists with a physical disability not incurred in the line of duty to retire with between 15 and 19 creditable years of service.

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63 * June 2024



4.0 PRELIMINARY CRITERIA A retired member of the Uniformed Services must satisfy the following applicable conditions to meet the preliminary criteria to receive CRSC.



4.1 Years of Service Requirement



2.2 Expanded Eligibility in 2008 As of January 1, 2008, section 641 of the FY 2008 National Defense Authorization Act and 10 U.S.C. § 1413a provide special rules for CRSC-eligible retirees with fewer than 20 years of service, to include members who have waived their retired pay in order to receive DVA disability compensation. This expanded authority includes both 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61 (10 U.S.C. §§ 1201-1222) disability retirees and Temporary Early Retirement Authority (TERA) retirees. However, a Reserve Component retiree who receives retired pay for early retirement with physical disabilities under 10 U.S.C. § 12731b is specifically excluded from entitlement to CRSC.



10 U.S. Code § 12731b - Special rule for members with physical disabilities not incurred in line of duty​

(a)

In the case of a member of the Selected Reserve of a reserve component who no longer meets the qualifications for membership in the Selected Reserve solely because the member is unfit because of physical disability, the Secretary concerned may, for purposes of section 12731 of this title, determine to treat the member as having met the service requirements of subsection (a)(2) of that section and provide the member with the notification required by subsection (d) of that section if the member has completed at least 15, and less than 20, years of service computed under section 12732 of this title.

(b) Notification under subsection (a) may not be made if—

(1)

the disability was the result of the member’s intentional misconduct, willful neglect, or willful failure to comply with standards and qualifications for retention established by the Secretary concerned; or

(2)

the disability was incurred during a period of unauthorized absence.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



4.1.4. On or After January 1, 2008



A retired member who meets the criteria of paragraphs 4.2 through 4.4 satisfies the preliminary criteria to receive CRSC, without regard to having 20 or more years of creditable service for computing retired pay.



4.1.4.1. A member retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61, with less than 20 years of service is eligible to receive CRSC, subject to reduction under subparagraph 8.5.2. 4.1.4.2. A member retired under the provisions of section 4403 of Public Law 102-484, October 23, 1992, as amended, and by section 504 of Public Law 112-81, December 31, 2011, (commonly known as the TERA program) is entitled to CRSC. The monthly amount of CRSC payable to qualifying TERA retirees will not be reduced under the special rules for CRSC-entitled disability retirees with less than 20 years of service that are applicable only to Chapter 61 retirees



4.3 Entitled to Retired Pay 4.3.1. A member must be entitled to retired pay, notwithstanding that such retired pay may be reduced due to receipt of DVA disability compensation. A reservist who has not reached the requisite age to receive retired pay (generally age 60) is not eligible to receive CRSC payments. See Chapter 1, subparagraph 3.8.6, for when the eligibility age of a reservist will be reduced below 60 years of age and become eligible for retired pay. THIS DOES NOT DISCUSS CHAPTER 61 RETIREMENT



5.0 FINAL CRITERIA In order for the member to be entitled to CRSC, the member must meet all four preliminary CRSC criteria (as prescribed in paragraphs 4.1 through 4.4), and the appropriate Service must determine that the member has a combat-related disability or disabilities, as defined by paragraphs 5.1 and 5.2, that are compensated by the DVA

----
Ron
 
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Greetings,

I'm quite certain I did not get retired under that code. But, where would it say that if it were the case?

On my National Guard Retirement orders it says: Honorable (NGB Form 55B) (A) and the Authoirty is NGR 600-200, Para 6-36s. I don't see any reference to any USC on my Army Retirement orders or my National Guard Orders.
 
I read that since I have less than 20 'good' years [and I didn't go out on TERA] CRSC would always be calculated based off of longevity.

For the longevity calculation, in my case, would this be my 20 years for pay? (I'm thinking not)
OR
would this calculation come from the 6 years of active duty time? (this is what I am guessing)

Additionally, it is my current understanding/impression that CRSC will be based off of VA SC not DoD SC. So, it doesn't matter if you are 100% or 60% VA SC but only what of those conditions qualify for CRSC and their percentages, right?

The part about what does count and what doesn't is a bit confusing to me still... I have read the presumed conditions count but, I'm not sure what each of those are. For example IBS, I've read that it is part of it but, I've not seen that listed on the PACT Act stuff listed outright. I've only seen it in discussions as someone stating it is an approved presumptive condition.

Is there a list of each condition or diagnostic code is that would count for CRSC or PACT Act even? (I Know... I'm in the weeds)
 
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For the longevity calculation, in my case, would this be my 20 years for pay? (I'm thinking not)
OR
would this calculation come from the 6 years of active duty time? (this is what I am guessing)

It would be the latter and shown on your retirement orders Disability retirement: 06 Year(s), 06 Month(s), 04 Day(s)

That would result in 6.5 x 2.5% (legacy retirement) or 2% (blended retirement) = longevity multiplier
Average high three base pay x longevity multiplier = hypothetical longevity portion of retired pay and one of the CRSC ceilings.

Ceilings:
Chapter 61 Disability Retirees:
Each CH 61 case involves these ceilings and other factors:

—Must be entitled to retired pay
—Agrees to waive retired pay in the amount of VA compensation received.
—CRSC cannot exceed the amount of the waived retired pay.
—CRSC cannot exceed the amount of the approved CRSC percentage (amt in VA Comp tables).
—CRSC cannot exceed the dollar amount of the longevity portion of retired pay.
—CRSC when combined with residual retired pay cannot exceed the longevity amount.

As one can see, more than one of the ceilings shown above could apply to the retiree. In those cases, the lesser amount is the CRSC amount.

Ron
 
so as an E7 with 20 years for pay - I just grabbed E7 @ 18 yrs in 2015 which was 4367.10/mo. We'll say it was the average of the high 36

--I don't know that it actually matters in this case for dependents etc. I just used the base pay number I found. In my case, they only calculate it using longevity (reserve component Chapter 61 retirement with less than 20 good years for retirement) --

If the average of the High36 is 4367.10
6.5 (number of years)
multiplied by either 2.5 (legacy retirement) [or it might be 2% for a blended retirement] ---
*I had to look up the difference... From what I found, I joined between Sep 9, 1980 and the end of 2017. So, I am legacy, if someone joined the military in 2018 or after, they are then enrolled in the blended retirement system.*

6.5 X 2.5 = 15 which is the Longevity multiplier

So,
as you previously stated this is hypothetical. I understand the CRSC has to be approved by the branch and then calculated by DFAS...

Bullet A) *edit - This was stated to be the correct theory on how CRSC would be calculated in this case*
4367.10 X 0.15 =
(in this case = 655.66 / mo) -- this is the longevity portion of the retirement pay (if one were to be receiving it)

Bullet B)
That 655.66 is the amount that the high36 is reduced by, right? UP TO THE CELING of 75% (which is actually 3275.33 [ceiling] for the 4367.10 example high36 average number)

(ex 4367.10 - 655.66 = 3711.44 / mo) which is over the limit of 75% as shown above


So, to be clear, is bullet A or bullet B the correct calculation for what the service member end up receiving (using digits/numbers instead of nouns)

I'm trying to ensure I understand this but also trying to plainly spell it out for anyone who happens to come across this and read through it. I'd like to make it easier for the next Gun Bunny who comes along. please remember that Gun Bunnies hide in the weeds I think in mils, not degrees :D
 
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I just came across this post you made which breaks it down using some numbers which is helpful.

 
Hello,

You said:
Bullet A)
4367.10 X 0.15 =
(in this case = 655.66 / mo) -- this is the longevity portion of the retirement pay (if one were to be receiving it)

Bullet B)
That 655.66 is the amount that the high36 is reduced by, right? UP TO THE CELING of 75% (which is actually 3275.33 [ceiling] for the 4367.10 example high36 average number)

(ex 4367.10 - 655.66 = 3711.44 / mo) which is over the limit of 75% as shown aboveYou

COMMENT:
Your bullet A is correct in concept.

Your bullet B is not applicable and is not part of any CRSC computation I have seen.

Ron
 
Thank you for breaking that down to the most basic level with me :)

You are a very patient man @RonG
 
Thank you.

Ron
 
I'm about to loose my marbles... my anxiety is getting the better of me and I feel like I'm gonna puke after all of this...

After the responses to my thread, I ended up calling DFAS on Tuesday and was told I don't have a retired pay account (which i read I would need to have in order to apply for CRSC and get it approved)

So, I was a bit lost and confused. And, of course, you guys were trying to help me but I don't understand any of it like you do, and I guess I have a peculiar situation.

I ended up calling HRC Help Desk for CRSC (1-888-276-9427 opt 1, opt 3) to try to figure out what was wrong and what i needed to do. They said they focus specifically on grey area cases (reserve component retirements [less than 20 years of AD time]) so I was definitely in the right place. In their system I am on the PDRL. She explained that in every case PDRL is PAID retirement (they sub the P in permanent for paid). So, therefore I SHOULD have a retirement account at DFAS. She was helpful in finding me, understanding my confusion, and trying to mitigate my situation. She gave me a couple of numbers to call. The first being the PDRL POC.

I was to call the PDRL POC office to make sure my orders and paperwork were submitted to DFAS like they should have been. If that office found everything to be in order, then I was to call DFAS next, navigate through a few specific prompts, and then speak to a Tier 2 supervisor.

So, I did call the PDRL POC office, they found everything was sent to DFAS like it should have been. And then he said "except... " and then went on to explain that he couldn't see anything about me sitting down with an RSO at my retirement and setting up my retired pay account. It was explained to me that even if I would not receive anything from DFAS for pay because I waive it for VA disability instead (tax free as opposed to DoD being taxed), I should have an account. But, when I retired I didn't sit down with anyone and do any of that. I received my paperwork digitally and via USPS eventually.

So, I needed to call the RSO where I out processed/retired he tells me. Well, that's not possible because it was Camp Atterbury, in Indiana and they don't have an RSO. It would actually be Fort Knox, KY for the nearest RSO according to HRC's website. His next best recommendation is to call DFAS and try to get it sorted out.

I call the number I was given for DFAS and go through the prompts.. I speak to 3 different people (first 2 just passed me along to the next). The third person finds that No, I indeed do not have a retired pay account and confirms it will be needed to apply for CRSC. Then goes on to tell me that the person I spoke with on Tuesday had put in an inquiry about this after they spoke with me and pulled up my file. They realized something wasn't right, but never told me about it. So, I've been on a hunt for the past few days because they simply kept a nugget of info from me.

The rep I was talking to told me that it looks like they have all of my paperwork except maybe a specific form (I'm not sure if they said 2166). But, my guess is there is no waiver on file for receiving my VA disability ILO DoD retired pay OR DoD Disability pay. She tells me that it will be addressed. then gives me the kinda crappy news that they have up to 30 days to look into it and open a case (if deemed necessary). So, I have to wait for DFAS to correct this mistake before I can even submit for CRSC.

I'm glad to at least have some explanation about why my stuff seems to difficult for everyone to understand. But, frustrated and in anxiety overdrive at the same time.


I was also told by the gent I spoke with at the PDRL POC office that once I get with an RSO and get my account created, I then need to submit all of my retirement info and disability info for an ABCMR and have it validated. Is this basically what I'm doing when I submit for CRSC?

Also, it sounds like I got "overlooked" by the government during my PEB/retirement back in 2016. And, I should have had my account set up way back then and then been educated that CSRC applied to me, and then applied etc. But, this was not the case. I think I had uneducated people handling the whole thing and they missed a bit. Seemingly, I can only get *up to* 6 years of backdating for CRSC. So, because of this oversight by the "experts" I'll loose at least 2 years worth of benefits that I was rightfully entitled to.


I'm going to ask though, given the situation, is it possible that they will retro everything back to my retirement date? Has anyone ever heard of this happening?
 
I'm about to loose my marbles... my anxiety is getting the better of me and I feel like I'm gonna puke after all of this...

After the responses to my thread, I ended up calling DFAS on Tuesday and was told I don't have a retired pay account (which i read I would need to have in order to apply for CRSC and get it approved)

So, I was a bit lost and confused. And, of course, you guys were trying to help me but I don't understand any of it like you do, and I guess I have a peculiar situation.

I ended up calling HRC Help Desk for CRSC (1-888-276-9427 opt 1, opt 3) to try to figure out what was wrong and what i needed to do. They said they focus specifically on grey area cases (reserve component retirements [less than 20 years of AD time]) so I was definitely in the right place. In their system I am on the PDRL. She explained that in every case PDRL is PAID retirement (they sub the P in permanent for paid). So, therefore I SHOULD have a retirement account at DFAS. She was helpful in finding me, understanding my confusion, and trying to mitigate my situation. She gave me a couple of numbers to call. The first being the PDRL POC.

I was to call the PDRL POC office to make sure my orders and paperwork were submitted to DFAS like they should have been. If that office found everything to be in order, then I was to call DFAS next, navigate through a few specific prompts, and then speak to a Tier 2 supervisor.

So, I did call the PDRL POC office, they found everything was sent to DFAS like it should have been. And then he said "except... " and then went on to explain that he couldn't see anything about me sitting down with an RSO at my retirement and setting up my retired pay account. It was explained to me that even if I would not receive anything from DFAS for pay because I waive it for VA disability instead (tax free as opposed to DoD being taxed), I should have an account. But, when I retired I didn't sit down with anyone and do any of that. I received my paperwork digitally and via USPS eventually.

So, I needed to call the RSO where I out processed/retired he tells me. Well, that's not possible because it was Camp Atterbury, in Indiana and they don't have an RSO. It would actually be Fort Knox, KY for the nearest RSO according to HRC's website. His next best recommendation is to call DFAS and try to get it sorted out.

I call the number I was given for DFAS and go through the prompts.. I speak to 3 different people (first 2 just passed me along to the next). The third person finds that No, I indeed do not have a retired pay account and confirms it will be needed to apply for CRSC. Then goes on to tell me that the person I spoke with on Tuesday had put in an inquiry about this after they spoke with me and pulled up my file. They realized something wasn't right, but never told me about it. So, I've been on a hunt for the past few days because they simply kept a nugget of info from me.

The rep I was talking to told me that it looks like they have all of my paperwork except maybe a specific form (I'm not sure if they said 2166). But, my guess is there is no waiver on file for receiving my VA disability ILO DoD retired pay OR DoD Disability pay. She tells me that it will be addressed. then gives me the kinda crappy news that they have up to 30 days to look into it and open a case (if deemed necessary). So, I have to wait for DFAS to correct this mistake before I can even submit for CRSC.

I'm glad to at least have some explanation about why my stuff seems to difficult for everyone to understand. But, frustrated and in anxiety overdrive at the same time.


I was also told by the gent I spoke with at the PDRL POC office that once I get with an RSO and get my account created, I then need to submit all of my retirement info and disability info for an ABCMR and have it validated. Is this basically what I'm doing when I submit for CRSC?

Also, it sounds like I got "overlooked" by the government during my PEB/retirement back in 2016. And, I should have had my account set up way back then and then been educated that CSRC applied to me, and then applied etc. But, this was not the case. I think I had uneducated people handling the whole thing and they missed a bit. Seemingly, I can only get *up to* 6 years of backdating for CRSC. So, because of this oversight by the "experts" I'll loose at least 2 years worth of benefits that I was rightfully entitled to.


I'm going to ask though, given the situation, is it possible that they will retro everything back to my retirement date? Has anyone ever heard of this happening?
So it looks like your retirement pay account wasn't setup. Looks like your VA compensation would have waived all of it but of course if you were to apply and receive CRSC some of that offset would be returned to you via CRSC.

So first I would ask for a congressional inquiry. They have a dedicated VA/Government person that can help with complex issues with different agencies. If you retired out of a small guard or reserve base then yes your end processing might be a larger military base. My wife was in Minnesota but her retirement orders had her outprocess in Wisconsin. Since her family was close to Ft. Riley she asked if the orders could be amended to out process there. Which they did.

You will need help to get a retirement account setup and decided on SBP options but know that any you choose might require you to pay a big check to backdate the premiums. Once you get that account setup you can apply for CRSC again. With a retirement account setup and a VA waiver in place you have met the minimum starting point to be able to apply for CRSC. You would still need to be approved for CRSC for a condition but that isn't the hold up.

Lastly, did you get Tricare? If not you will need to get enrolled into tricare once you get your retirement account setup. I would choose the Select plan as there are no annual enrollment fees for medical retirees.
 
So it looks like your retirement pay account wasn't setup. Looks like your VA compensation would have waived all of it but of course if you were to apply and receive CRSC some of that offset would be returned to you via CRSC.

So first I would ask for a congressional inquiry. They have a dedicated VA/Government person that can help with complex issues with different agencies. If you retired out of a small guard or reserve base then yes your end processing might be a larger military base. My wife was in Minnesota but her retirement orders had her outprocess in Wisconsin. Since her family was close to Ft. Riley she asked if the orders could be amended to out process there. Which they did.

You will need help to get a retirement account setup and decided on SBP options but know that any you choose might require you to pay a big check to backdate the premiums. Once you get that account setup you can apply for CRSC again. With a retirement account setup and a VA waiver in place you have met the minimum starting point to be able to apply for CRSC. You would still need to be approved for CRSC for a condition but that isn't the hold up.

Lastly, did you get Tricare? If not you will need to get enrolled into tricare once you get your retirement account setup. I would choose the Select plan as there are no annual enrollment fees for medical retirees.

I do have tricare every since I retired. I'll have to research the SBP. I don't know what the numbers would be and if in the end it would be better to waive it or not.

I did some online searching and it looks like the form they might have been talking about would be this DD 2656. I am trying to get everything sorted out and put together so it can all be ready whenever they contact me about the retirement pay account. But, I'm not very bright about some of this stuff and I'll end up needing someone to guide me through the form an explain a few things.

I hope to hear from my VSO ad the DAV by the end of next week (they are at some conference or training I guess). I don't know that they can help with DFAS getting my account set up. But, I would imagine they could help me navigate the paperwork for the stuff I need to do for CRSC.

In the end I think I'm limited to 15% of what my retirement pay would be (6.5 x 2.5). I could be mistaken about it but, read something about my situation (Reserve Component and less than 20 years) being limited to longevity amount not the full retirement amount. But, the mess has kicked my anxiety through the roof. so, it's not hundreds of thousands of dollars. And, until things are sorted out I'll be stuck in this rut.

Without this forum though, I wouldn't even be on the track to getting it sorted out.
 
Also... how would I go about a congressional inquiry? I am heading to google to search the topic but I thought I'd ask here as well.

Thanks,
 
Also... how would I go about a congressional inquiry? I am heading to google to search the topic but I thought I'd ask here as well.

Thanks,
Look up your local congressperson via google. Once you know who that representative is you call them and give them a short story of your situation and ask for their help. They will send you some paperwork to sign and then can advocate for you on your behalf. Your situation screams congressional inquiry!
 
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