Need an experienced opinion

#tim

New Member
Registered Member
I was blown up in Iraq by an IED in 2005 and wedge fractured my L4 and T11 vertebrae and compressed my discs. I survived an MEB and was MMRB'd under the old system in 2006 because ortho dropped the ball twice (exact words in my medical record) and never put the referral in for neurology and a CT/MRI. So, I failed to successfully get back to running but won the board over by being a motivated young soldier. Following my MMRB and MOS reclassification, I got proper imaging done, real physical therapy, RFA, and more and more treatment over the years as my back has continued to get worse.

I have had sciatica, but beyond transient numbness in my lower back and being brought to my knees by sudden flare ups, RFA has eliminated the persistent electric shocks from my back down through my legs. ROM is stiff in all directions. I can move but i use my knees and hips to get me forward and down or flop and deal with the pain. Pain is normally 5/10 with debilitating flare ups to 7-9/10 every 1-2 days that can take me out for minutes, hours, or days. Hip is tilted now with one leg shorter on most days unless by some miracle I can pop my hip back into place. I have managed to suffer through over the years.

I am now just over 19 years time in service, OCONUS, and at a location where I see a civilian provider. My last CONUS doc told me to MEB out instead of taking a 20 year regular retirement because I am so broke ( I have at least 4 issues that are MEB worthy as I read the reg) and my back has significantly worsened. What I need help with is your collective experience on IDES and the evaluation and rating for back issues. I have time to shape my treatment and evaluations with my current doctor to ensure the right language is used for VA and DoD rating purposes. I plan on reaching back to my military medical team this summer and waving the white flag to start the MEB based on the current 6 month IDES cycle goal to ensure I am safely at 20 years.

I am especially interested in if the back has separate ratings and if you have similar experiences to my above and below issues how did they get rated? The CFR is confusing on the issue. Do I need my doc to prescribe bed rest? Do doctors really do that? It sounds nice. I have been put on a treadmill by Army PTs and told to run while being treated for flare ups.... Is ROM based on where you feel a natural hard stop, where pain starts, or where you can force yourself to go?

I apologize for all the detail, there is so much going on and I am clueless as to what really matters. Is it my record or does it just boil down to the C&P?

My current back diagnoses in my medical record read as follows: Low back pain, SACROILIITIS, FACET SYNDROME LUMBAR, INTERVERTEBRAL DISC DEGENERATION, LUMBAR SPONDYLOSIS, CLOSED FRACTURE OF LUMBAR VERTEBRAL BODY L4 COMPRESSION and LUMBAGO.

My last English language radiology exam notes (2020 and 2019 respectively) have the following detailed impressions:
Findings:
There is a mild lumbar levocurvature with the apex at L1-2 (image 8, series 8). Lumbar lordosis is increased (55 degrees). Vertebral body height and bone marrow signal are normal. The conus terminates at a normal level at L2. There are no cord signal abnormalities. The visualized paravertebral soft tissues are unremarkable. Specific findings by vertebral level: T11-T12: Seen only on the sagittal sequences. Severe disc desiccation, disc height loss and endplate degenerative changes. There is no evidence of significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis as seen on the sagittal sequences. T12-L1: Normal. L1-L2: Normal. L2-L3: Mild disc desiccation. There is no significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis. L3-L4: Disc desiccation with severe disc height loss and a disc bulge. There are also extensive Modic type II endplate degenerative changes and a Schmorl's node along the superior anterior endplate of L4. There is also mild bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Findings result in minimal canal stenosis without significant neural foraminal narrowing. The exiting and traversing nerve roots appear unaffected. L4-L5: Minimal disc bulge with severe bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. There is no significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis. L5-S1: Disc desiccation and severe disc height loss with a central disc herniation. There is also endplate hypertrophy with Modic type II endplate degenerative changes and bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Findings result in mild canal stenosis without significant neural foraminal narrowing. The exiting, L5 nerve roots appear unaffected. The traversing, left S1 nerve root may be lightly contacted in the left lateral recess (image 17, series 7). The visualized sacroiliac joints are unremarkable. Impression: 1. Multilevel thoracolumbar degenerative changes, as detailed above. Findings are most pronounced L3-L4 and L5-S1. 2. Lumbar levocurvature with increased lumbar lordosis.

Lumbar vertebral column demonstrates normal sagittal curvature and alignment. Normal vertebral body height. Mild reverse S-shaped scoliosis of approximate 10 degrees. Multilevel degenerative endplate osteophyte formation. Degenerative disc height loss most severe at L3-4 with vacuum phenomenon and deep L4 superior endplate Schmorl's node. Degenerative disc height loss left severe at L5-S1. Mild low lumbar degenerative facet sclerosis at the L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1 levels.
IMPRESSION: 1. Mild degenerative reverse S-shaped scoliosis curvature. 2. Multilevel end and osteophyte formation. L4 superior endplate prominent Schmorl's node. 3. Low lumbar degenerative disc disease, greatest at L3-4, less severe at L5-S1 level. 4. Low lumbar multilevel L3-4 through L5S1 moderate degenerative facet spondylosis.
 
I feel that your best starting place is to get intimate with the DBQ or benefits questionaire for lower back and spine C&P for my C&P it was an exact blueprint of what the C&P Doc used in my examination to the letter so i was knowledgeble from the minute i sat down until I left the office. I will say that that was a few years ago so there may be some deviation now but i seriusly doubt it. They will have what records they have on you in front of them but if you have any doubts make sure you have yours with you at the exam.
 
I was blown up in Iraq by an IED in 2005 and wedge fractured my L4 and T11 vertebrae and compressed my discs. I survived an MEB and was MMRB'd under the old system in 2006 because ortho dropped the ball twice (exact words in my medical record) and never put the referral in for neurology and a CT/MRI. So, I failed to successfully get back to running but won the board over by being a motivated young soldier. Following my MMRB and MOS reclassification, I got proper imaging done, real physical therapy, RFA, and more and more treatment over the years as my back has continued to get worse.

I have had sciatica, but beyond transient numbness in my lower back and being brought to my knees by sudden flare ups, RFA has eliminated the persistent electric shocks from my back down through my legs. ROM is stiff in all directions. I can move but i use my knees and hips to get me forward and down or flop and deal with the pain. Pain is normally 5/10 with debilitating flare ups to 7-9/10 every 1-2 days that can take me out for minutes, hours, or days. Hip is tilted now with one leg shorter on most days unless by some miracle I can pop my hip back into place. I have managed to suffer through over the years.

I am now just over 19 years time in service, OCONUS, and at a location where I see a civilian provider. My last CONUS doc told me to MEB out instead of taking a 20 year regular retirement because I am so broke ( I have at least 4 issues that are MEB worthy as I read the reg) and my back has significantly worsened. What I need help with is your collective experience on IDES and the evaluation and rating for back issues. I have time to shape my treatment and evaluations with my current doctor to ensure the right language is used for VA and DoD rating purposes. I plan on reaching back to my military medical team this summer and waving the white flag to start the MEB based on the current 6 month IDES cycle goal to ensure I am safely at 20 years.

I am especially interested in if the back has separate ratings and if you have similar experiences to my above and below issues how did they get rated? The CFR is confusing on the issue. Do I need my doc to prescribe bed rest? Do doctors really do that? It sounds nice. I have been put on a treadmill by Army PTs and told to run while being treated for flare ups.... Is ROM based on where you feel a natural hard stop, where pain starts, or where you can force yourself to go?

I apologize for all the detail, there is so much going on and I am clueless as to what really matters. Is it my record or does it just boil down to the C&P?

My current back diagnoses in my medical record read as follows: Low back pain, SACROILIITIS, FACET SYNDROME LUMBAR, INTERVERTEBRAL DISC DEGENERATION, LUMBAR SPONDYLOSIS, CLOSED FRACTURE OF LUMBAR VERTEBRAL BODY L4 COMPRESSION and LUMBAGO.

My last English language radiology exam notes (2020 and 2019 respectively) have the following detailed impressions:
Findings:
There is a mild lumbar levocurvature with the apex at L1-2 (image 8, series 8). Lumbar lordosis is increased (55 degrees). Vertebral body height and bone marrow signal are normal. The conus terminates at a normal level at L2. There are no cord signal abnormalities. The visualized paravertebral soft tissues are unremarkable. Specific findings by vertebral level: T11-T12: Seen only on the sagittal sequences. Severe disc desiccation, disc height loss and endplate degenerative changes. There is no evidence of significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis as seen on the sagittal sequences. T12-L1: Normal. L1-L2: Normal. L2-L3: Mild disc desiccation. There is no significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis. L3-L4: Disc desiccation with severe disc height loss and a disc bulge. There are also extensive Modic type II endplate degenerative changes and a Schmorl's node along the superior anterior endplate of L4. There is also mild bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Findings result in minimal canal stenosis without significant neural foraminal narrowing. The exiting and traversing nerve roots appear unaffected. L4-L5: Minimal disc bulge with severe bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. There is no significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis. L5-S1: Disc desiccation and severe disc height loss with a central disc herniation. There is also endplate hypertrophy with Modic type II endplate degenerative changes and bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Findings result in mild canal stenosis without significant neural foraminal narrowing. The exiting, L5 nerve roots appear unaffected. The traversing, left S1 nerve root may be lightly contacted in the left lateral recess (image 17, series 7). The visualized sacroiliac joints are unremarkable. Impression: 1. Multilevel thoracolumbar degenerative changes, as detailed above. Findings are most pronounced L3-L4 and L5-S1. 2. Lumbar levocurvature with increased lumbar lordosis.

Lumbar vertebral column demonstrates normal sagittal curvature and alignment. Normal vertebral body height. Mild reverse S-shaped scoliosis of approximate 10 degrees. Multilevel degenerative endplate osteophyte formation. Degenerative disc height loss most severe at L3-4 with vacuum phenomenon and deep L4 superior endplate Schmorl's node. Degenerative disc height loss left severe at L5-S1. Mild low lumbar degenerative facet sclerosis at the L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1 levels.
IMPRESSION: 1. Mild degenerative reverse S-shaped scoliosis curvature. 2. Multilevel end and osteophyte formation. L4 superior endplate prominent Schmorl's node. 3. Low lumbar degenerative disc disease, greatest at L3-4, less severe at L5-S1 level. 4. Low lumbar multilevel L3-4 through L5S1 moderate degenerative facet spondylosis.
If just over 19 years TIS just apply for retirement to retire right at 20 years. After application for retirement accepted ask your PCM to write you a profile that will protect your health until you retire. If that isn't an option for some reason then you want to delay getting MEB'd until you are 9 months from getting 20. That should give you enough time to delay so that by the time IDES is finished you hit 20 years regardless of the results. You are so close to the finish line! Having the 20 year retirement is amazing because you don't leave it up to chance. A chapter 61 retirement can result in more overall compensation if any of those unfitting conditions were to be designated as combat related since your pension would be exempt from Federal Income Taxes. Also, i you medically retired and chose Tricare Select the annual enrollment fee is waived so there is benefits but I would try at all costs to cross the 20 year active duty finish line so that your minimum pay and benefits are locked in.
 
I was blown up in Iraq by an IED in 2005 and wedge fractured my L4 and T11 vertebrae and compressed my discs. I survived an MEB and was MMRB'd under the old system in 2006 because ortho dropped the ball twice (exact words in my medical record) and never put the referral in for neurology and a CT/MRI. So, I failed to successfully get back to running but won the board over by being a motivated young soldier. Following my MMRB and MOS reclassification, I got proper imaging done, real physical therapy, RFA, and more and more treatment over the years as my back has continued to get worse.

I have had sciatica, but beyond transient numbness in my lower back and being brought to my knees by sudden flare ups, RFA has eliminated the persistent electric shocks from my back down through my legs. ROM is stiff in all directions. I can move but i use my knees and hips to get me forward and down or flop and deal with the pain. Pain is normally 5/10 with debilitating flare ups to 7-9/10 every 1-2 days that can take me out for minutes, hours, or days. Hip is tilted now with one leg shorter on most days unless by some miracle I can pop my hip back into place. I have managed to suffer through over the years.

I am now just over 19 years time in service, OCONUS, and at a location where I see a civilian provider. My last CONUS doc told me to MEB out instead of taking a 20 year regular retirement because I am so broke ( I have at least 4 issues that are MEB worthy as I read the reg) and my back has significantly worsened. What I need help with is your collective experience on IDES and the evaluation and rating for back issues. I have time to shape my treatment and evaluations with my current doctor to ensure the right language is used for VA and DoD rating purposes. I plan on reaching back to my military medical team this summer and waving the white flag to start the MEB based on the current 6 month IDES cycle goal to ensure I am safely at 20 years.

I am especially interested in if the back has separate ratings and if you have similar experiences to my above and below issues how did they get rated? The CFR is confusing on the issue. Do I need my doc to prescribe bed rest? Do doctors really do that? It sounds nice. I have been put on a treadmill by Army PTs and told to run while being treated for flare ups.... Is ROM based on where you feel a natural hard stop, where pain starts, or where you can force yourself to go?

I apologize for all the detail, there is so much going on and I am clueless as to what really matters. Is it my record or does it just boil down to the C&P?

My current back diagnoses in my medical record read as follows: Low back pain, SACROILIITIS, FACET SYNDROME LUMBAR, INTERVERTEBRAL DISC DEGENERATION, LUMBAR SPONDYLOSIS, CLOSED FRACTURE OF LUMBAR VERTEBRAL BODY L4 COMPRESSION and LUMBAGO.

My last English language radiology exam notes (2020 and 2019 respectively) have the following detailed impressions:
Findings:
There is a mild lumbar levocurvature with the apex at L1-2 (image 8, series 8). Lumbar lordosis is increased (55 degrees). Vertebral body height and bone marrow signal are normal. The conus terminates at a normal level at L2. There are no cord signal abnormalities. The visualized paravertebral soft tissues are unremarkable. Specific findings by vertebral level: T11-T12: Seen only on the sagittal sequences. Severe disc desiccation, disc height loss and endplate degenerative changes. There is no evidence of significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis as seen on the sagittal sequences. T12-L1: Normal. L1-L2: Normal. L2-L3: Mild disc desiccation. There is no significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis. L3-L4: Disc desiccation with severe disc height loss and a disc bulge. There are also extensive Modic type II endplate degenerative changes and a Schmorl's node along the superior anterior endplate of L4. There is also mild bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Findings result in minimal canal stenosis without significant neural foraminal narrowing. The exiting and traversing nerve roots appear unaffected. L4-L5: Minimal disc bulge with severe bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. There is no significant canal or neural foraminal stenosis. L5-S1: Disc desiccation and severe disc height loss with a central disc herniation. There is also endplate hypertrophy with Modic type II endplate degenerative changes and bilateral facet/ligamentum flavum hypertrophy. Findings result in mild canal stenosis without significant neural foraminal narrowing. The exiting, L5 nerve roots appear unaffected. The traversing, left S1 nerve root may be lightly contacted in the left lateral recess (image 17, series 7). The visualized sacroiliac joints are unremarkable. Impression: 1. Multilevel thoracolumbar degenerative changes, as detailed above. Findings are most pronounced L3-L4 and L5-S1. 2. Lumbar levocurvature with increased lumbar lordosis.

Lumbar vertebral column demonstrates normal sagittal curvature and alignment. Normal vertebral body height. Mild reverse S-shaped scoliosis of approximate 10 degrees. Multilevel degenerative endplate osteophyte formation. Degenerative disc height loss most severe at L3-4 with vacuum phenomenon and deep L4 superior endplate Schmorl's node. Degenerative disc height loss left severe at L5-S1. Mild low lumbar degenerative facet sclerosis at the L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1 levels.
IMPRESSION: 1. Mild degenerative reverse S-shaped scoliosis curvature. 2. Multilevel end and osteophyte formation. L4 superior endplate prominent Schmorl's node. 3. Low lumbar degenerative disc disease, greatest at L3-4, less severe at L5-S1 level. 4. Low lumbar multilevel L3-4 through L5S1 moderate degenerative facet spondylosis.
Regardless of the direction you decide to go make sure to save all of your Leave!
 
If just over 19 years TIS just apply for retirement to retire right at 20 years. After application for retirement accepted ask your PCM to write you a profile that will protect your health until you retire. If that isn't an option for some reason then you want to delay getting MEB'd until you are 9 months from getting 20. That should give you enough time to delay so that by the time IDES is finished you hit 20 years regardless of the results. You are so close to the finish line! Having the 20 year retirement is amazing because you don't leave it up to chance. A chapter 61 retirement can result in more overall compensation if any of those unfitting conditions were to be designated as combat related since your pension would be exempt from Federal Income Taxes. Also, i you medically retired and chose Tricare Select the annual enrollment fee is waived so there is benefits but I would try at all costs to cross the 20 year active duty finish line so that your minimum pay and benefits are locked in.
I'm definitely going to cross the 20 year line. I am just trying to thoroughly document my medical conditions without triggering the MEB too early and prepare for that next step.I have a Purple Heart for the injury that caused all my back issues and related conditions. My medical records clearly list the PH event as the origin of those conditions. Your advice on CH 61 and what I read on some other threads have been eye opening. I went crazy reading the federal law titles to get an understanding of everything. Losing some VA pay for CH61 pension over TIS ret if I I take cdrp or crsa, and potentially making it up in tax benefits due to my combat related disabilities were things I had never heard of. Thank You, to you and everyone who has messaged me. You have all been so helpful. I am going to have to write a campaign plan to organize everything I need to do.
 
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