P3/NR-MEB , what does it mean?

Duckmeat

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
I'm currently attempting to get a permanent profile for my right leg. The division surgeon medically disqualified me from a deployment and remarked I should have never been allowed to join the Army Reserves.

Here I am at 16 years with 10 AFS. When I separated from the AGR program I was evaluated by the VA and awarded 100%.

My conditions are only getting worse.

I'm currently on a temporary deadmans profile and they are requesting a new DA 7809 that they say will see me getting a P3/NR-MEB.

Not sure what this means and I'm curious how this will proceed from here.

Thank you.
 
The critical issue for you will be whether there is evidence in your medical records or your military records that establishes your leg condition was incurred or aggravated as a result of or during a period of active duty service greater than 30 days. If so, you will be processed through the Integrated Disability Evaluation System and your condition will be rated with the potential for a disability retirement if your rating is 30% or more or a severance payment if less than 30%. On the other hand, if the Army Reserve (Army Reserve Medical Management Center) concludes that there is no evidence showing your disqualifying medical condition was not incurred or aggravated during a period of active duty more than 30 days or otherwise during a period of annual training or inactive duty training, you will be separated through a non-duty related process which precludes any rating and any severance or disability retirement. If you request, your case is sent to a non-duty related PEB, which determines whether the condition renders you unfit to perform your duties. The PEB does not rate an unfitting condition, as the condition is not compensable as one neither incurred nor aggravated in line of duty. If the condition is determined to be duty-related, the case is referred to an MEB for processing through the IDES. See DoDI 1332.18, ¶¶ 1.2.e.; 3.3.f.(2); 5.3.b; Army Reg. 635-40, ¶ 4-34. As a practical matter, it is the military department, not the PEB, that makes the final decision whether the condition was incurred or aggravated in line of duty such that it is duty-related. See, e.g., Army Reg. 635-40, ¶ 5-23.(c)(1), Army Reg. 600-8-4, ¶ 4-19. (prohibiting a PEB or the USAPDA from overruling an approved LOD determination, instead requiring final disposition by the Army Human Resources Command). If you are a member of the Selected Reserve, see 10 U.S.C. § 10143, who is not qualified to serve due to a physical disability and who has accumulated at least 15 but less than 20 qualifying years of service, you may be entitled to Reserve retired pay upon reaching the age of eligibility, typically 60, even if your physical disabilities was not incurred in the line of duty. 10 U.S.C. § 12731b. The bottom line is it is on you to start finding evidence that your leg condition was incurred or aggravated during a period of AD greater than 30 days, because the default position of the Army Reserve and ARMMC is to shunt you off to a NDR process where you get no benefits.
 
Hello RetiredAtty,

My leg condition was identified when I enlisted, I have documentation of that. It was O.K. until 2021 when it started getting worse. I was treated for the condition but its getting worse still. I was AGR from August 2014 until Nov 2022.

How does the fact that I already have a VA Rating at 100% factor in?
 
Because your leg condition was noted upon your entry into service, ARMMC will characterize it as a pre-existing condition. That means that unless you can establish that the condition was aggravated during a period of active duty service greater than 30 days, your case is likely to be considered non-duty related and your condition may be considered non-compensable making you ineligible for either a disability retirement or a disability severance payment. In the pre-existing condition context, demonstrating aggravation means proving that your periods of active duty military service made your leg condition worse over and above the natural progression of the condition absent such service, including a more rapid progression or the hastening of the progression of the condition. That proof must come from your medical records, including medical opinions.

The nature and extent of your VA rating has no bearing upon the determination whether the Army considers your condition duty related. The Army will give no weight or consideration to the fact that the VA determined your condition was service connected.

Here are the pertinent regulatory provisions from DoD Instruction 1332.18 and Army Reg. 635-40, regarding the compensability of a pre-existing condition summarized above:

DoDI 1332.18 (Nov. 10, 2022), ¶ 7.7.c.:
c. Presumption of Incurrence or Aggravation in the LOD for Members on Continuous Orders to Active Duty Specifying a Period of More Than 30 Days.
(1) The Secretaries of the Military Departments will presume that diseases or injuries incurred by Service members on continuous orders to active duty, specifying a period of more than 30 days, were incurred or aggravated in the LOD unless the disease or injury was noted at time of entry into service. The Secretaries of the Military Departments may overcome the presumption that a disease or injury was incurred or aggravated in the LOD only when clear and unmistakable evidence indicates both that the disease or injury existed before their current period of military service and that the disease or injury was not aggravated by their current period of military service.

Glossary: Service aggravation: The permanent worsening of a pre-Service medical condition over and above the natural progression of the condition

Army Reg. 635-40 (Jan. 19, 2017), ¶ 5-11:
5–11. Presumption of sound condition for Soldiers on orders to active duty specifying a period of more than 30 days
a. The PEB will presume Soldiers, including RC Soldiers and recalled retirees on continuous orders to active duty specifying a period of more than 30 days, entered their current period of military Service in sound condition when the disability was not noted at the time of the Soldier’s entrance to the current period of active duty.
b. The PEB may overcome this presumption if clear and unmistakable evidence demonstrates that the disability existed before the Soldier’s entrance on their current period of active duty and was not aggravated by their current period of military Service. Absent such clear and unmistakable evidence, the PEB will conclude that the disability was incurred or aggravated during their current period of military Service.
c. The PEB must base a finding that the Soldier’s condition was not incurred in or aggravated by their current period of military Service on objective evidence in the record, as distinguished from personal opinion, speculation, or conjecture. When the evidence is unclear concerning whether the condition existed prior to their current period of military Service or if the evidence is equivocal, the presumption of sound condition at entry to the current period of military Service has not been rebutted, and the PEB will find the Soldier’s condition was incurred in or aggravated by military Service.

Glossary: Aggravation - The permanent worsening of a pre-service medical condition over and above the natural progression of the condition caused by trauma or the nature of military Service.

Your first step – right now – should be to request your Claims File (C-File) from the VA. Your C-File will contain all your military treatment records and VA medical records, together with private medical records submitted to the VA, which might not otherwise be available to you or might take forever to get from multiple sources from the Army or otherwise. You can then use those medical records, together with any private treatment records you have, to establish a factual predicate to demonstrate service aggravation during active duty periods. To request your C-File, submit an on-line FOIA request to the VA using VA Form 20-10206. Make sure you indicate you want the Claims File (C-File) in Section III, Item 17. It can take 4 to 6 months to get your C-File from the VA. If you act now, you may have the information by the time you get your disability separation proceeding notice from ARMMC.

The other step you should seriously consider is to consult with a physician, preferably your treating physician, about obtaining an expert medical opinion that your pre-existing leg condition more likely than not was aggravated beyond its natural progression, including the hastening of its deterioration, by your periods of active duty service. Such a medical opinion should reference specific medical records and medical literature supporting the conclusion. This is an important piece of evidence, because ARMMC will likely rely on a one-paragraph medical “opinion” to the contrary from some in-house military health care provider (it is not always clear it’s even a physician) at ARMMC or at US Army Human Resources Command, that will not reflect a careful consideration of all the medical evidence, but will simply check the box in support of ARMMC’s NDR decision.
 
Thank you RetiredAtty,


I have all the medical records from the treatment of my leg. I'll go ahead and request my c file so I'm better equipped to deal with that issue when it arises.

Thank you for the advice.

The doctors I'm seeing now are definitely saying the issue has been aggravated by service. The division surgeon as well. I submitted my profile packet through armmc and it's about to expire on the 30th. I aim to resubmit a 7789 this week. I have thought about letting it lapse and resubmitting with the division surgeon.
 
Update time,

My P3 profile was approved , i found it in my MEDPROS , when and how will I be notified of what the next steps are regarding the MEB/DES?
 
Update #2

had my formal ND-PEB board on the 25 of February , 2025

the OSC wrote an appeal for me, and presented the facts as they were

the board concurred and voted that my condition was in the line of duty

I received a memo from HRC in my iPerms on the 21st of May, 2025 saying that my condition is in the line of duty and i am eligible for referral into the IDES

now I wait some more
 
Hello
Is there anything to gleam from these excerpts from my Federal case to change my honorable to a retroactive military discharge.

I finally came to understand "aggravation" . Has the government already conceded my conditions were aggravated in service, post my attempted Navy to Army Transfer?


Case 1:19-cv-00594-EDK Document 27 Filed 05/29/20 Page 24 of 35
----------------------
Further, in all three of the cases cited by Mr. Hassay, there
was a particular, documented in-service incident which led to the service member receiving
medical treatment. Ferrell, 23 Cl. Ct. at 564 (active duty mobility exercise aggravated lower back
injury); Stuart I, 108 Fed. Cl. at 461 (service member injured when riding in vehicle hit by IED in
combat area); Reaves, 128 Fed. Cl. at 197 (service member failed routine test for required body
weight and was placed in ongoing, documented weight control program). Here, no such incident
took place and Mr. Hassay was not receiving ongoing medical treatment from the Navy.
Furthermore, the Navy medical records in the administrative record show no physical inability to
perform his duties and reflect that any psychological issues were a result of personal problems, not
naval service. AR99 & AR226-227. Thus, Mr. Hassay is incorrect in his assertion that the board
drew a negative inference from a lack of evidence. Instead, the board determined that substantial
evidence supported the determination Mr. Hassay was fit for duty.

----
In addition, the declaration’s stated purpose is to provide evidentiary support for a
proposition that currently has none—that Mr. Hassay sought and received permission from the
Navy to attempt to transfer to the Army. Mot. to Supp. At 2-3. This does not represent a “gap” in
the record. Rather, it represents a gap in the assertions made in Mr. Hassay’s Response and Cross-
MJAR. Mr. Hassay has asserted that the Army and Navy collectively failed to follow their
regulations because the Army never transmitted the results of Mr. Hassay’s 1998 MEPCOM to the
Navy for consideration, and that the Navy never acted upon those results.6 Resp. at 28-30.
However, this argument breaks down if neither the Army nor the Navy was aware that Mr. Hassay
was seeking to transfer. Other than the offered declaration, the only other evidence Mr. Hassay
can point to are two letters from Inspectors General which Mr. Hassay claims “validated” that he
attempted to transfer. Closer inspection of these letters reveals that they do not provide the support
Mr. Hassay contends.
The Office of the Inspector General for the Army’s Headquarters, U.S. Army Recruiting
Command stated in its letter of August 1, 2016, that the “MEPCOM [Inspector General (] IG [)]
validated that you attempted to transfer from the US Navy to the US Army . . . .” AR148.
However, the letter provides no further explanation of what “validated” means. Mr. Hassay
contends that “validated” in this context means that the MEPCOM IG confirmed that Mr. Hassay
did in fact attempt to transfer from the Navy to the Army. However, review of the MEPCOM IG’s
letter belies this assertion.
------------------------


Case 1:19-cv-00594-EDK Document 88 Filed 01/27/25 Page 1 of 16
KAPLAN, Chief Judge.
-----------------
B. Merits
The plaintiff in this military disability retirement case, Aaron Hassay, served in the United States Navy Reserves (“USNR”) for eight years, from 1994 to 2002. He claims he is entitled to a military disability retirement based on post-traumatic stress disorder (“PTSD”) and other psychiatric illnesses that either developed during, or were aggravated by, his military service. According to Mr. Hassay, these conditions rendered him “unfit to perform the duties of his office, grade, rank or rating” during his service. See Hassay v. United States, 150 Fed. Cl. 467 (2020) [hereinafter Hassay I]; see also 10 U.S.C. § 1204.


As noted above, in the decision currently under review the Board found despite the absence of corroborating evidence that Mr. Hassay was a victim of sexual and physical assault as well as verbal abuse while serving on the U.S.S. Sides. It also found that as a result of these experiences, Mr. Hassay developed PTSD and aggravated his pre-existing mental health conditions, including depression and bipolar disorder.

Also in 2016, Mr. Hassay petitioned the BCNR to correct his naval records to reflect a disability retirement. AR 262. The Board rejected Mr. Hassay’s request. AR 101–02. It found that Mr. Hassay had a mental health disorder as early as 1998, but concluded there was insufficient evidence to establish that his condition “was incurred or aggravated in connection with [his] military service.” AR 101. It also found that there was insufficient evidence to support Mr. Hassay’s assertions that he was assaulted by his Command Master Chief or that he was a victim of military sexual trauma. Id. Finally, the Board concluded that the evidence did not establish that Mr. Hassay was unfit for continued service at the time of his discharge. AR 102.

On December 6, 2016, Mr. Hassay asked the Board to reconsider its decision based on an intervening decision by the Board of Veterans Appeals that found—contrary to the BCNR—that Mr. Hassay’s psychiatric disorders were service-connected. AR 103–04. The BCNR denied reconsideration in a February 2018 decision, but now acknowledged that Mr. Hassay had “service[-]connected disability conditions.” AR Vol. I at 6–7, ECF No. 12-1. However, it remained of the view that these conditions had not “created a sufficient occupational impairment to warrant [Mr. Hassay’s] referral to a medical board or the Physical Evaluation Board [“PEB”]” and that the record showed that he was fit for duty at the time of his discharge. Id. The Board concurred with the opinion of its Senior Medical Advisor and relied on Mr. Hassay’s performance evaluations, which the Board found showed that he was “fit for duty at the time of [his] discharge despite the evidence that [his] symptoms may have worsened in the years after his discharge.” Hassay I, 150 Fed. Cl. at 476 (alterations in original) (quoting AR 7). ------------------------
 
Top