Potential Admin discharge help!

[northerner2024]

Full time active duty AGR here with 9 years of active service, 18.5 years total enlisted service. I was recently arrested for a dui, which is my second alcohol related offense in my career. Under my state national guard policy, it's not looking good for me. It has ignited a spark to quit drinking, to seek outpatient treatment, and to go to appointments to take care of physical and mental health issues I have put off for years. I am going to likely face administrative separation and then the board of appeals. I am now finding out the scope of mental health issues, including ptsd, adjustment disorder, and depression diagnosis which started after a deployment to Afghanistan. Furthermore I have a number of issues including a torn labrum and sinus issues which will likely result in needed surgeries.

first thing, I am hoping I can make it to my 20 years in service, and am expecting to lose my full time orders. I have otherwise had a great career and have a good reputation on base with leadership and my peers. My plan was always to retire at 20 years TAFMS, but it feels like the writing is on the wall and my career will be cut short. But my gut is saying I think my reputation could help with consideration of getting me to my 20 years of enlisted service. Should I be marrying my civilian medical records with base medical? Could medical diagnosis be considered? Would it prolong my orders and delay discharge while these things are addressed? Could an MEB be a possibility? And if they do cut my agr orders but allow me to finish out my 20, Would a medical retirement or medical separation be more in my favor opposed to a traditional guard retirement with 9-10 years active service?? Thank you

 

[Provis]

Full time active duty AGR here with 9 years of active service, 18.5 years total enlisted service. I was recently arrested for a dui, which is my second alcohol related offense in my career. Under my state national guard policy, it's not looking good for me. It has ignited a spark to quit drinking, to seek outpatient treatment, and to go to appointments to take care of physical and mental health issues I have put off for years. I am going to likely face administrative separation and then the board of appeals. I am now finding out the scope of mental health issues, including ptsd, adjustment disorder, and depression diagnosis which started after a deployment to Afghanistan. Furthermore I have a number of issues including a torn labrum and sinus issues which will likely result in needed surgeries.

first thing, I am hoping I can make it to my 20 years in service, and am expecting to lose my full time orders. I have otherwise had a great career and have a good reputation on base with leadership and my peers. My plan was always to retire at 20 years TAFMS, but it feels like the writing is on the wall and my career will be cut short. But my gut is saying I think my reputation could help with consideration of getting me to my 20 years of enlisted service. Should I be marrying my civilian medical records with base medical? Could medical diagnosis be considered? Would it prolong my orders and delay discharge while these things are addressed? Could an MEB be a possibility? And if they do cut my agr orders but allow me to finish out my 20, Would a medical retirement or medical separation be more in my favor opposed to a traditional guard retirement with 9-10 years active service?? Thank you

PTSD diagnosis if it explains your symptoms would help. The minimum goal would to be allowed to finish up 20 good years so that you don't lose everything. You are in a tight spot and have a narrow way through that can salvage your situation. Considering the value of your Guard pension and the value of Tricare. I would do everything you can to try to medically retire OR eke it out long enough to get 20 year letter without a discharge characterization that prevents you from getting your guard pension and or chapter 61 retirement. I will send you some private IDES attorneys you can talk to. Chances are you will need to hire a separate attorney to represent you on the criminal part. I am sure they could point you in the right direction. I normally say its best to hire an attorney but in your situation its paramount. If you can get it to a dual process situation that would be good too. Especially if there is a way to settle with you getting discharged or put in gray area awaiting pay. Best case is that you argue that its symptoms of PTSD and they medically retire you instead. Regardless you probably need 2 attorneys and it would be worth it to go into debt if you have to so that you can salvage this situation.

 

[PolloxTroy08]

I echo what Provis stated, definitely hire an attorney who has an experience in military misconduct and discharges; despite the cost, if you don't hire one and receive an undesirable outcome, you'll be regretting not hiring one for the rest of your life. Keep seeking and attending treatment for PTSD and any other BH issues (along with SUDCC). Before they discharge you they should be doing a medical/pysch eval to determine if your alcohol abuse is related to PTSD and warrants a MEB and all of that will definitely delay them discharging you. If you already have a diagnosis for these conditions, it will surely help your case; if it's in civilian medical records, I would think you'd want to provide them to your military providers, but I'm not sure how that works; another reason to hire an attorney. I think your best outcome is to save your non-regular retirement in the Guard so you have to buy yourself that 1.5 years; with that said utilize your lawyer to advise you on how you can delay everything to buy that time; saving your leave is important as it can sometimes be added on to get you that 20.

As for your last question, it's hard to say what would be more in "your favor" between a medical retirement and a non-regular retirement as it would depend on your DOD/VA ratings, your rank, and your age. In most cases, it's much more beneficial to achieve a 20-year retirement because without reaching 20 years, your VA will be offset by your disability pension as you would not qualify for CRDP so you may not get any extra monetary benefits for medically retiring (although you'd get TRICARE for Life immediately which is big). However, if you can get them to initiate a MEB, you're probably likely to be able to push your TIS to 20 so that may be a very desirable course of action. Keep in mind you should be eligible for VA disability pay once separated unless they try to hammer you and give you a discharge under other than dishonorable conditions. Another reason to make sure you're seeking treatment and getting everything documented before you get out.

 

[northerner2024]

I echo what Provis stated, definitely hire an attorney who has an experience in military misconduct and discharges; despite the cost, if you don't hire one and receive an undesirable outcome, you'll be regretting not hiring one for the rest of your life. Keep seeking and attending treatment for PTSD and any other BH issues (along with SUDCC). Before they discharge you they should be doing a medical/pysch eval to determine if your alcohol abuse is related to PTSD and warrants a MEB and all of that will definitely delay them discharging you. If you already have a diagnosis for these conditions, it will surely help your case; if it's in civilian medical records, I would think you'd want to provide them to your military providers, but I'm not sure how that works; another reason to hire an attorney. I think your best outcome is to save your non-regular retirement in the Guard so you have to buy yourself that 1.5 years; with that said utilize your lawyer to advise you on how you can delay everything to buy that time; saving your leave is important as it can sometimes be added on to get you that 20.

As for your last question, it's hard to say what would be more in "your favor" between a medical retirement and a non-regular retirement as it would depend on your DOD/VA ratings, your rank, and your age. In most cases, it's much more beneficial to achieve a 20-year retirement because without reaching 20 years, your VA will be offset by your disability pension as you would not qualify for CRDP so you may not get any extra monetary benefits for medically retiring (although you'd get TRICARE for Life immediately which is big). However, if you can get them to initiate a MEB, you're probably likely to be able to push your TIS to 20 so that may be a very desirable course of action. Keep in mind you should be eligible for VA disability pay once separated unless they try to hammer you and give you a discharge under other than dishonorable conditions. Another reason to make sure you're seeking treatment and getting everything documented before you get out.

I greatly appreciate this. So I currently have an area defense counsel representing me, but perhaps I should be hiring a military lawyer on the outside?

 

[PolloxTroy08]

I would definitely seek a consultation from a couple to see how they think they can help you; consultations are free so at least call/write around and get some free legal advice. Whether you hire one may depend on what you're being told that you're facing; you'd likely accept a GOMOR (maybe best case scenario), but if they're trying to separate you without a retirement, you need all the firepower you can muster. I'm not sure what your relationship is like with your current counsel, but generally assigned military counsel are less experienced and overworked so they have less time to dedicate to your defense. Also, and I'm not sure how true it really is, but from my experience the military seems to consider your defense more when they know you've hired a civilian attorney outside of the military.

I assume you're DUI is a outside the military right? I'm no lawyer, but I would think the first phase of your problem is doing all you can to minimize and delay that charge. Generally, I don't believe the military acts until the case is decided and you're actually convicted. So I would be speaking to a civilian lawyer about delaying a possible conviction, even if it means going to trial (which generally takes longer). Being part of a 3-star HQ the last few years, I've known many people who have languished in the unit as it became a de facto holding unit for "misfit kids." Some would be waiting trial for a year or longer before going to trial (and even prison). I guess somewhat good news for you, I met one NCO who pissed hot for cocaine multiple times and had multiple other charges, resulting in him being sentenced to 3 months in Leavenworth, but he was still allowed to retire; I believe it was part of his plea deal. So there is hope for you; having the PTSD diagnosis definitely helps as the military and judges have become more lenient in the past 10 years. That should definitely be your messaging though. You have PTSD/anxiety/depression, you have a drinking problem and drink to cope with those service-connected MH issues, it led to you getting the DUI.