Push for National Guard medical retirement? Over 20 years mil and title 32 technician

PsyZek

PsyZek

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Hopefully this is the correct forum for this. I posted this on Veterans Benefits on Reddit and they told me to come here.
  • Age: 44
  • Service: Active Duty (2002-2007); ANG DSG & Title 32 Technician (2007-present)
  • Position: GS-12 Step 9
  • Active Duty Time: Bought back, I have around 12 years in points
  • VA Disability: 80% for 10 years, just filed 5 more claims Aug 24 that should bring me to 100%
  • Deployments: 4 times (aircraft maintenance), mobilized twice (cyber)
  • Rank: E-7, possibly STEP II to E-8 in Jan 25
  • PT Test: Haven't done a full test since 2017, only push-ups and tape, max push-ups, 32" tape, I dont look like I'm completely broken.
  • Medical: Retired Col (Title 5) doc advises me to get a yearly orto PT note that expires in 180 days to avoid ARMO (my ortho says never/indef, but writes what I ask) but I'll never be able to train running or sit-ups. She’s likely just helping me reach 20 years. Just passed another half PT test in July for another year.
  • Issues - L4/L5 fusion, L5/S1 a train wreck, bilateral radiculopathy, diabetes type II (diagnosed this year, pancreatitis right after two deployments, endo thinks this is related, lots of burn pit and JP-8 exposure) sleep apnea, migraines, plantar fasciitis, hearing and tinnitus issues.
Concern: I’m over 20 years now. Should I push for a med board? (after my VA claim comes back). I also want to retire with senior, idk how long you have to hold if you get medically retired. Then I lose my GS 12 job, I could try to find another but if I get FERS disability then that path is done, but National Guard Special Provision Disability Retirement seems an option but that's confusing at best.

I’m confused by FERS disability retirement vs. National Guard Special Provision Disability Retirement, VA vs. DoD ratings, and how bought-back time counts, if the DoD rating will jack my VA rating. My HRO is unresponsive, and my union rep wasn’t much help. I was able to research VA stuff to death and submit a solid claim, but this is is NG+ Souls compared to VA stuff.

Thank you all for your time.
 
PsyZek said:
Hopefully this is the correct forum for this. I posted this on Veterans Benefits on Reddit and they told me to come here.
  • Age: 44
  • Service: Active Duty (2002-2007); ANG DSG & Title 32 Technician (2007-present)
  • Position: GS-12 Step 9
  • Active Duty Time: Bought back, I have around 12 years in points
  • VA Disability: 80% for 10 years, just filed 5 more claims Aug 24 that should bring me to 100%
  • Deployments: 4 times (aircraft maintenance), mobilized twice (cyber)
  • Rank: E-7, possibly STEP II to E-8 in Jan 25
  • PT Test: Haven't done a full test since 2017, only push-ups and tape, max push-ups, 32" tape, I dont look like I'm completely broken.
  • Medical: Retired Col (Title 5) doc advises me to get a yearly orto PT note that expires in 180 days to avoid ARMO (my ortho says never/indef, but writes what I ask) but I'll never be able to train running or sit-ups. She’s likely just helping me reach 20 years. Just passed another half PT test in July for another year.
  • Issues - L4/L5 fusion, L5/S1 a train wreck, bilateral radiculopathy, diabetes type II (diagnosed this year, pancreatitis right after two deployments, endo thinks this is related, lots of burn pit and JP-8 exposure) sleep apnea, migraines, plantar fasciitis, hearing and tinnitus issues.
Concern: I’m over 20 years now. Should I push for a med board? (after my VA claim comes back). I also want to retire with senior, idk how long you have to hold if you get medically retired. Then I lose my GS 12 job, I could try to find another but if I get FERS disability then that path is done, but National Guard Special Provision Disability Retirement seems an option but that's confusing at best.

I’m confused by FERS disability retirement vs. National Guard Special Provision Disability Retirement, VA vs. DoD ratings, and how bought-back time counts, if the DoD rating will jack my VA rating. My HRO is unresponsive, and my union rep wasn’t much help. I was able to research VA stuff to death and submit a solid claim, but this is is NG+ Souls compared to VA stuff.

Thank you all for your time.
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If you can't do your job due to health conditions in the Guard then they will kick you out. I am not sure how to make them do it. Just be honest with your PHA's and go from there. The guard is a train wreck and they rarely follow the rules so its not black and white. They may just force you non duty related. I am not up to date on FERS but the real question is if you qualify for FERS disability if kicked out since you need your Guard position to hold your MIL Tech job.
 
I dont have enough time for “Military Reserve Technician (MRT) retirement. I’m three years short.

Special NG Disability Retirement Provision Public Law 97-253 is confusing, seems you have to be denied regular FERS disability retirement first and then not turn down what they considered a reasonable job offer.

I dont know where they’d pull a GS-12 out of their hat that’s in the same commuting area, right now I’m 20 miles/25 minutes, with the back issues I can’t double or triple that.

I'm just not sure this will all be worth the squeeze. I could hunt for a GS13 and hope to get lucky and push for a medical retirement from the guard and bypass all this FERS crap. Or try to get my title 32 position converted to a title 5. Or just go get a grown up civilian job.

Collecting my MIL and FERS early and just working a part-time remote position would be ideal but what it would take to get there seems overwhelming, esp with my HR department full of NPCs who dont seem to know up from down.
 
While I am not in your boat, I have had a similar path. I am a early retired FERs civilian employee who actually remained in the military parttime and is now going through IDES. I have also been helping a soldier in your same situation, but she is under 20 years. I am not an expert, but I'll try to help where I can.

If you quit or resign from your FERs position, you will lose your potential FERs disability retirement. In some situations you can apply for FERs disability retirement within one year of resigning.

If your Tech position requires the wear of the military uniform and you no longer can maintain your military tech position, you must be offered a like position within reasonable commuting distance as you mentioned.

If you cannot complete your tech job anymore due to disability and/or you are medically separated/retired from the military, then FERs must process you for early disability retirement.

Being processed from FERs retirement will require you to apply to SSDI. If you do not apply, you can lose eligibility to FERs retirement. SSDI can deny your application, but you will still receive your FERs retirement. If you are approved for SSDI, then you cannot return to work without forfeiting the SSDI.

I am not sure about this for Techs, but as FERs civilian employees we are not eligible for Tricare due to our access to FEHB benefits.

If you retire under FERs disability, you can return to new work, but you will have a cap of 80% of your previous earnings.

There are interactions between CRSC and the FERs military buy back. If you are over 20 years active, this will not apply as you would qualify for CRDP. (CRDP has changed to a new term).

In my opinion it is absolutely worth the squeeze as you mentioned. You potentially could earn FERs disability retirement and associated health benefits, military retirement or military disability retirement, and/or SSDI or return to work in a limited fashion. Basically as far as the government programs go, you have maxed out everything should you be properly process for disability retirement.

Are any of your injuries combat related?

Hopefully this helps fill in some information gaps for you.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
While I am not in your boat, I have had a similar path. I am a early retired FERs civilian employee who actually remained in the military parttime and is now going through IDES. I have also been helping a soldier in your same situation, but she is under 20 years. I am not an expert, but I'll try to help where I can.

If you quit or resign from your FERs position, you will lose your potential FERs disability retirement. In some situations you can apply for FERs disability retirement within one year of resigning.

If your Tech position requires the wear of the military uniform and you no longer can maintain your military tech position, you must be offered a like position within reasonable commuting distance as you mentioned.

If you cannot complete your tech job anymore due to disability and/or you are medically separated/retired from the military, then FERs must process you for early disability retirement.

Being processed from FERs retirement will require you to apply to SSDI. If you do not apply, you can lose eligibility to FERs retirement. SSDI can deny your application, but you will still receive your FERs retirement. If you are approved for SSDI, then you cannot return to work without forfeiting the SSDI.

I am not sure about this for Techs, but as FERs civilian employees we are not eligible for Tricare due to our access to FEHB benefits.

If you retire under FERs disability, you can return to new work, but you will have a cap of 80% of your previous earnings.

There are interactions between CRSC and the FERs military buy back. If you are over 20 years active, this will not apply as you would qualify for CRDP. (CRDP has changed to a new term).

In my opinion it is absolutely worth the squeeze as you mentioned. You potentially could earn FERs disability retirement and associated health benefits, military retirement or military disability retirement, and/or SSDI or return to work in a limited fashion. Basically as far as the government programs go, you have maxed out everything should you be properly process for disability retirement.

Are any of your injuries combat related?

Hopefully this helps fill in some information gaps for you.

Dave
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Thank you for this response.

If FERS makes you apply for SSDI, and that process can take a year, what happens in the interim?

I'm going to wait until my VA rating comes back to initiate anything. I think with a good VA decision it'll be easier to push for a medical retirement.

The back rating should come back as combat related as it was "Instrumentality of War" related incident and I have an existing 70% PTSD that I think was rated along the same lines, still waiting on my FOIA request for my claims file (that I should have ordered 9 years ago).

Thanks again!
 
PsyZek said:
Thank you for this response.

If FERS makes you apply for SSDI, and that process can take a year, what happens in the interim?

I'm going to wait until my VA rating comes back to initiate anything. I think with a good VA decision it'll be easier to push for a medical retirement.

The back rating should come back as combat related as it was "Instrumentality of War" related incident and I have an existing 70% PTSD that I think was rated along the same lines, still waiting on my FOIA request for my claims file (that I should have ordered 9 years ago).

Thanks again!
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When you apply for SSDI, put in for rapid processing for wounded warriors. The timeframe changes but it usually 3 to 6 months. And honestly, nothing else really changes while you wait. You can receive any retirement/disability pays that are already approved. You will receive back pay from the date of application. If you work during that time, you will likely be denied SSDI or have to give up SSDI. There are interactions between FERs and SSDI similar to VA and military disability pay. Just anticipate that for calculations.

It will be good to have your VA already resolved as that means another steady paycheck while everything processes. There could be gaps otherwise. Maybe save up a couple of months or more of bills.

FOIA recently took me a full year to receive ....just a heads up there.

The combat connection can be helpful in your processing. There are rules with military time buy back and combat related disability. I am not familiar with all of them, but I do know that being combat related will be in your favor regarding those rules/laws.

And no problem. I'll try to help if you come up with any more questions.

Good luck!

Dave
 
DaveK said:
A threat for you to look into...

Title 32 Technician Medical Retirement Scenarios (Please limit posts to "Technician Medical Retirements")

I'm a dual status Title 32 technician. I have 18 years total of Guard service (4000 points total includes both M-Day and Title 10 time.) I have three active duty mobilizations. I started as a tech in 2014, buying back my time to November of 2011, so I'm going on 9 years as a tech. I've reached a...
www.pebforum.com www.pebforum.com
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This is gold, thank you.
 
A few things to think about are:
1. What do I want to do?
2. What do I expect to receive from DoD, VA and technican disability retirements?
3. Am I ok with retiring from the DoD and federal technician programs?
4. Will the money be enough to support myself / family?
5. So I want to try and file for ssdi or seek other employment?
 
I know your post above was rhetorical to get me thinking, but let’s walk through it, make sure I’m not completely off base.

I have until my VA rating comes back to learn as much as I can, so 6-10 months?
  1. I’ve been looking for a remote GS13 2210 position for over a year, with thousands of applicants per posting I haven’t had much luck. With all my medical stuff remote would be a must.
  2. Financial estimates
    1. VA @ 100% married is approx. $3950
    2. According to my GRB estimate FERS disability is $3950 or $3560 with survivor
    3. According to ChatGPT 4o and what I read online, and I’m still not 100% sure, but ANG military retirement amount is based on time or % DoD rated, and not points?
      1. 50% DoD rating - Two years of E7/one year of E8 - $6121 x 50% = $3060
      2. $6121 x 2.5% x 23 = $3522
      3. If I were to collect all three, maintain my 100% VA, I’d be taking home almost exactly what I do now as a GS12 S 9 w/ retention bonus and 80% VA (not counting TSP and not taking into account any potential Combat Related Special Compensation)
  3. Yes, I’m ok with leaving.
  4. It looks like it would be fine, if I’m capped at making 80% of my technician salary (not counting 3R) then working part time, or teaching, or whatever, would be fine.
    1. Also not counting TSP and my Roth, and etc that comes in later in life
  5. I know per the FERS process I’d have to file for SSDI which would prevent me from working, I don’t want to do that but it seems like they force you to attempt to offset FERS with it. I’d rather do #4 above
Am I off on this? I've Googled and asked ChatGPT in five different ways about the military medical retirement when it's paid and calculations and it insists its not based on points, which makes me wonder how hard NGB fights this kind of thing. If I were to retire now normally at at 60 I would collect approx $1200. Is the medically retired payment a form of disability compensation as the percentage is based on service connected issues? This is all NG+ VA, makes the VA process seem simple in comparison.
 
Provis said:
If you can't do your job due to health conditions in the Guard then they will kick you out. I am not sure how to make them do it. Just be honest with your PHA's and go from there. The guard is a train wreck and they rarely follow the rules so its not black and white. They may just force you non duty related. I am not up to date on FERS but the real question is if you qualify for FERS disability if kicked out since you need your Guard position to hold your MIL Tech job.
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If the VA service connects items can the DoD raters turn around and say the same issues aren't service connected?
 
PsyZek said:
If the VA service connects items can the DoD raters turn around and say the same issues aren't service connected?
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That is correct. The only thing the military is bound to if in IDES is the rating %. Your branch determines if the condition occurred in the line of duty. Also, your branch determines whether its combat related and if the condition is unfitting. You can get rated 30% or 50% for a condition and that in itself doesn't mean the PEB will determine that the condition causes you to not be able to do your job.

Also, if you do not have 20 years AFS then any VA compensation will offset a chapter 61 retirement. So if you were medically retired instead of being put in the gray area retirement until you reach age 60 you most likely will not receive any additional compensation. That's because for most their VA compensation is greater than your Chapter 61 pension and so all of that income is offset leaving you only with VA compensation. You can apply for CRSC after being medically retired to recoup some of that lost income from the VA offset but only up to the amount equal to the combination of your VA compensation and earned longevity pension.

Assuming FERS is just like SSDI you can receive compensation for being disabled from this source in addition to any military/VA compensation. My wife was approved for SSDI and because she has kids there is also auxilary pay for them up to 50% of the amount of her SSDI payment.
 
Thank you for the response.

So my branch, the ANG , re-determines my rating percentage and service connection independent from the VA?

Does it help having a VA rating or do they just ignore that and start from scratch? New C&Ps and all that fun stuff?

I do have 20 years, will be 23 by October.

I saw you respond about the lawyer question. I feel like that’s the best way to go. They generally just charge a flat rate? Then there is the ODC route which is free?

I guess people who pay for lawyers just plan to budget the 10k or whatever it costs to get the help? I understand the "get what you pay for" I'm not bitching, just trying to peek into my possible future.
 
PsyZek said:
Thank you for the response.

So my branch, the ANG , re-determines my rating percentage and service connection independent from the VA?

Does it help having a VA rating or do they just ignore that and start from scratch? New C&Ps and all that fun stuff?

I do have 20 years, will be 23 by October.

I saw you respond about the lawyer question. I feel like that’s the best way to go. They generally just charge a flat rate? Then there is the ODC route which is free?

I guess people who pay for lawyers just plan to budget the 10k or whatever it costs to get the help? I understand the "get what you pay for" I'm not bitching, just trying to peek into my possible future.
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So the ANG determines everything Except the rating. VA rates the condition. That VA rating turns into a DOD% IF the ANG determines that the condition was duty related AND causes you to be unfit for your job.

If you choose regular IDES they rerate it all. You can choose IDES but request rating by the VA for DOD purposes only if you don't want any chances of ratings changing. Though I haven't yet seen anyone on here do that and get a lower rating or complain. The only route I would not take is LDES. The only time I would choose LDES is if you had earned a 20 year regular retirement (Not a NG retirement) and also had 100% VA since there is then little to no upside since by law you can't get more than the combination of your earned pension + VA disability and those who retire with a regular active duty retirement get all of your pension and all of their VA (as long as VA total% is 50% or higher).

I always recommend hiring a private attorney. Just like in real life you can have a public defender and they may get you the best result but its a one time shot and I want the very best to represent me in this process. I will send you some references so you can reach out to some that specialize in this and you can ask your questions to include their fees.

Also, please answer this question? You keep saying you will have your 20 years soon. Is that active duty retirement or NG retirement? There is a big difference. If its 20 year letter there is a lot to lose in this process between now and when you can retire at age 60. Whereas if you have a 20 year active duty retirement you basically have maxed out gross compensation so this process doesn't mean much other than getting found unfit and kicked out.
 
Thank you.

So even if the VA has rated me percentages based on conditions they have agreed are service connected, the NG comes in for a military disability retirement and has another chance to change service connection status (in their eyes in this case, not for the VA)?

I'm 22 years total service and will get a National Guard retirement, first four years active duty, then 18 years thus far in the NG totaling 22 years in the AF. 23 in Jan.

Should I reach out and get connected with a lawyer now or should I wait until I get my VA rating back? That'll be 6-10 months.

And will the Lawyer only help with the mil side or do they generally help with the FERS part also? Or I just open with that, looking for someone who will help with the whole process.

And lastly, why is military disability retirement more than a regular "collect at age 60'ish" NG retirement?
If the VA is already compensating me for my service connected conditions, why do I get compensated again by the NG?
 
The VA, DoD, FERs, CRSC, and SSDI all have their own legal standards. As an example, SSDI can agree that a person is disabled, but still will not qualify for SSDI payments.
 
"And lastly, why is military disability retirement more than a regular "collect at age 60'ish" NG retirement?
If the VA is already compensating me for my service connected conditions, why do I get compensated again by the NG?"

Chapter 61 is paid due to being injured. If totally disabled, then it can pay as much as if one was a full-time who completed their 20+ active years and entered retirement. It's an attempt to make a person "whole" again as they likely will not be able to earn or earn as much later in life now due to the injuries.

NG retirement is simply that, you served part-time for 20+ years, so you earned part-timers retirement at 60.

The VA compensates for injuries similar to DoD. However, most earning VA do not also earn DoD chapter 61. VA makes up for much of that lost income. And unless under CRDP, one either gives up their military chapter 61 pay or their VA pay less any difference.
 
PsyZek said:
Thank you.

So even if the VA has rated me percentages based on conditions they have agreed are service connected, the NG comes in for a military disability retirement and has another chance to change service connection status (in their eyes in this case, not for the VA)?

I'm 22 years total service and will get a National Guard retirement, first four years active duty, then 18 years thus far in the NG totaling 22 years in the AF. 23 in Jan.

Should I reach out and get connected with a lawyer now or should I wait until I get my VA rating back? That'll be 6-10 months.

And will the Lawyer only help with the mil side or do they generally help with the FERS part also? Or I just open with that, looking for someone who will help with the whole process.

And lastly, why is military disability retirement more than a regular "collect at age 60'ish" NG retirement?
If the VA is already compensating me for my service connected conditions, why do I get compensated again by the NG?
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I would recommend interviewing attorneys asap. I would look for one that specializes in FERS disability retirements and for one that specializes in IDES.

I am very confused about your mentioning waiting on VA ratings? If you are asking about waiting on results for anything done outside of IDES (Integrated Disability Evaluation System) the answer is no.

Has the NG referred you to IDES yet? If so, was it duty related IDES or non duty related IDES? You asked about pushing for a MEB to get into IDES. If you are not referred then there isn't much to do except learning about it and interviewing attorneys. Just be aware its very possible that the Guard could just find you unfit and force you into gray area retirement via a non duty related IDES designation. If that is the case you want to put all of your attention towards getting a new federal job or if that isn't possible working with a FERS disability attorney to apply for and receive FERS disability retirement. They could also find you fit and just be okay with your limitations and you just have to keep going or decide to enter gray area retirement.
 
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