Question regarding PTSD Rating

brondeau09

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
If somebody with experience would chime in, I am wondering if when it comes to rating PTSD if the rater just goes by the magical occupational and social impairment or if they also use the additional symptoms that are checked off?

For instance: The social impairment sits at the 10% or 30% level but then there is "Panic Attacks more than once per week" assigned which falls into the 50% level. Will they consider this or will they try to get the lowest rating?
 
Yes, both. The examiner almost always provides the magic bullet, severe occupational and social impairment, occasional, etc. Most of the time the rating matches up to that bullet.

The rater however is required to consider the entire record. If you have record of symptoms that more closely match a different rating its quite possible for that single exam to not be indicative of the overall condition. The symptom lists associated with each category are pretty broad and are more of a guideline. Simply matching up a single one is not sufficient to be considered at that rating, you need to match them all in some sense or another. Now most people will have symptoms that fall into multiple categories, you might have a single symptom that's at a severity level of 50% but multiple matched up to 30%, 30% is probably the appropriate rating in that case. There are definitely cases where the RO picked a higher rating than the magic bullet the examiner provided.

I don't think its quite fair to say they try to get the lowest rating. While there may be ROs out there who consistently lowball, and evidence is definitely strong that certain RO areas produce lower ratings. Doubt is supposed to resolve in your favor, and from most reports, that happens most of the time. Clear cut criteria like a quantifiable number of panic attacks are good and tend to get more favorable results.
 
scoutCC,

If you could, take a look at the following C&P results and tell me what you think. I believe it is contradicting in the results. First off there are a lot of missing symptoms. My exam started at 11:15am and the exam was signed off on by 11:42am. It was a very fast exam, not many questions were asked and the examiner didn't even really listen to any of my answers to the very few questions she did ask. I had a much better exam with a Psychologist through VES but have not received those results yet.

The examiner states "mild" for PTSD but the symptoms reflect worse. Also states that "
The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or
impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of
functioning." Yet gives the lowest rating for occupational and social impairment.

A lot of the criterion is shortened as well when I mentioned a lot more of the symptoms and other aspects of concern. I have flashbacks, I have suspiciousness, mild memory loss, loss of concentration, short term memory issues, forget recent events, ect ect. I also stated that I work part time after having two full time jobs and not being able to remain full time after having a confrontation with a supervisor and now work 2 days a week. I just think I got screwed on this one.

Do you think the VES exam that lasted an hour and a half with a PhD of Psychiatry will have any weight on the PTSD diagnosis and rating?

SECTION I:
----------
1. Diagnostic Summary
---------------------
Does the Veteran have a diagnosis of PTSD that conforms to DSM-5 criteria
based on today's evaluation?
[X] Yes [ ] No

ICD code: F

2. Current Diagnoses
--------------------
a. Mental Disorder Diagnosis #1: PTSD (MILD)
ICD code: F
Comments, if any:
IT IS AT LEAST AS LIKLEY AS NOT THAT THE VETERAN'S PTSD HAS BEEN
CAUSED BY HIS FEAR OF HOSTILE MILITARY ACTIIVITES IN AFGHANISTAN.

b. Medical diagnoses relevant to the understanding or management of the
Mental Health Disorder (to include TBI): TINNITUS,
ICD code: F

3. Differentiation of symptoms
------------------------------
a. Does the Veteran have more than one mental disorder diagnosed?
[ ] Yes [X] No

c. Does the Veteran have a diagnosed traumatic brain injury (TBI)?
[ ] Yes [X] No [ ] Not shown in records reviewed

Comments, if any:
HEADACHES

4. Occupational and social impairment
-------------------------------------
a. Which of the following best summarizes the Veteran's level of
occupational
and social impairment with regards to all mental diagnoses? (Check only
one)
[X] Occupational and social impairment due to mild or transient symptoms
which decrease work efficiency and ability to perform occupational
tasks only during periods of significant stress, or; symptoms
controlled by medication

b. For the indicated level of occupational and social impairment, is it
possible to differentiate what portion of the occupational and social
impairment indicated above is caused by each mental disorder?
[ ] Yes [ ] No [X] No other mental disorder has been diagnosed

c. If a diagnosis of TBI exists, is it possible to differentiate what
portion
of the occupational and social impairment indicated above is caused by
the
TBI?
[ ] Yes [ ] No [X] No diagnosis of TBI

SECTION II:
-----------
Clinical Findings:
------------------
1. Evidence review
------------------
In order to provide an accurate medical opinion, the Veteran's claims folder
must be reviewed.

a. Medical record review:
-------------------------
Was the Veteran's VA e-folder (VBMS or Virtual VA) reviewed?
[X] Yes [ ] No

Was the Veteran's VA claims file (hard copy paper C-file) reviewed?
[ ] Yes [ ] No

If yes, list any records that were reviewed but were not included in the
Veteran's VA claims file:

If no, check all records reviewed:

[ ] Military service treatment records
[ ] Military service personnel records
[ ] Military enlistment examination
[ ] Military separation examination
[ ] Military post-deployment questionnaire
[ ] Department of Defense Form 214 Separation Documents
[ ] Veterans Health Administration medical records (VA treatment
records)
[ ] Civilian medical records
[ ] Interviews with collateral witnesses (family and others who have
known the Veteran before and after military service)
[ ] No records were reviewed
[ ] Other:

b. Was pertinent information from collateral sources reviewed?
[ ] Yes [ ] No


2. History
----------
a. Relevant Social/Marital/Family history (pre-military, military, and
post-military):
REMOVED INFORMATION FOR PRIVACY

b. Relevant Occupational and Educational history (pre-military, military,
and
post-military):
THE VETERAN HAD COMPLETED EIGHT GRADE PRIOR TO HIS MILITARY SERVICE.
HE
SERVE DIN THE U.S. ARMY FROM 2007 TO 2014. HE COMPLETED HIS GED PRIOR
TO HIS MILITARY SERVICE. HE HAS BEEN A FULL-TIME COLLEGE STUDENT
STUDYING BUSINESS. HE ALSO HAS BEEN WORKING PART-TIME IN SECURITY.

c. Relevant Mental Health history, to include prescribed medications and
family mental health (pre-military, military, and post-military):

REMOVED INFORMATION DUE TO PRIVACY

d. Relevant Legal and Behavioral history (pre-military, military, and
post-military):
NONE

e. Relevant Substance abuse history (pre-military, military, and
post-military):
NONE

f. Other, if any:
No response provided.

3. Stressors
------------
Describe one or more specific stressor event(s) the Veteran considers
traumatic (may be pre-military, military, or post-military):

a. Stressor #1: WE GOT ATTACKED ONE
DIED AND FIFTEEN OR SIXTEEN WERE WOUNDED. I HAD TO CLEAR THE BUILDING,
AND ASSESS THE WOUNDED.."

Does this stressor meet Criterion A (i.e., is it adequate to support
the diagnosis of PTSD)?
[X] Yes [ ] No

Is the stressor related to the Veteran's fear of hostile military or
terrorist activity?
[X] Yes [ ] No

Is the stressor related to personal assault, e.g. military sexual
trauma?
[ ] Yes [X] No

b. Stressor #2: "WE HAD CONSTANT MORTAR AND ROCKET ATTACKS. WE ALWAYS HAD TO
BE ON EDGE."

Does this stressor meet Criterion A (i.e., is it adequate to support
the diagnosis of PTSD)?
[X] Yes [ ] No

Is the stressor related to the Veteran's fear of hostile military or
terrorist activity?
[X] Yes [ ] No

Is the stressor related to personal assault, e.g. military sexual
trauma?
[ ] Yes [X] No

4. PTSD Diagnostic Criteria
---------------------------
Please check criteri
a used for establishing the current PTSD diagnosis. Do
NOT mark symptoms below that are clearly not attributable to the Criteria A
stressor/PTSD. Instead, overlapping symptoms clearly attributable to other
things should be noted under #7 - Other symptoms. The diagnostic criteria
for PTSD, referred to as Criteria A-H, are from the Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th edition (DSM-5).

Criterion A: Exposure to actual or threatened a) death, b) serious
injury,
c) sexual violation, in one or more of the following ways:
[X] Directly experiencing the traumatic event(s)
[X] Witnessing, in person, the traumatic event(s) as they occurred to
others

Criterion B: Presence of (one or more) of the following intrusion
symptoms
associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning after the
traumatic event(s) occurred:
[X] Recurrent, involuntary, and intrusive distressing memories of the
traumatic event(s).

Criterion C: Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the
traumatic
event(s), beginning after the traumatic events(s) occurred,
as evidenced by one or both of the following:
[X] Avoidance of or efforts to avoid external reminders (people,
places, conversations, activities, objects, situations) that
arouse
distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely
associated with the traumatic event(s).

Criterion D: Negative alterations in cognitions and mood associated with
the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the
traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two (or more)
of
the following:
[X] Persistent negative emotional state (e.g., fear, horror, anger,
guilt, or shame).
[X] Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant
activities.

Criterion E: Marked alterations in arousal and reactivity associated with
the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the
traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two (or more)
of
the following:
[X] Hypervigilance.
[X] Exaggerated startle response.

Criterion F:
[X] Duration of the disturbance (Criteria B, C, D, and E) is more than
1 month.

Criterion G:
[X] The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or
impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of
functioning.

Criterion H:
[X] The disturbance is not attributable to the physiological effects
of
a substance (e.g., medication, alcohol) or another medical
condition.

Criterion I: Which stressor(s) contributed to the Veteran's PTSD
diagnosis?:
[X] Stressor #1
[X] Stressor #2

5. Symptoms
-----------
For VA rating purposes, check all symptoms that actively apply to the
Veteran's diagnoses:

[X] Depressed mood
[X] Anxiety
[X] Panic attacks more than once a week

6. Behavioral Observations
--------------------------
THE VETERAN WAS AAO X 3. HE WAS APPROPRIATELY DRESSED AND GROOMED. HE SPOKE
RAPIDLY AND HIS MOOD WAS ANXIOUS. HIS THOUGHT PROCESS WAS LOGICAL AND GOAL
ORIENTED. HIS MEMORY AND CONCENTRATION WERE INTACT. HIS JUDGEMENT WAS GOOD.
THERE WERE NO INDICTAIONS OF HALLUCINATIONS OR DELUSIONS. THE VETERAN DENIED
EXPERIENCING ANY SUICCIDAL/HOMICIDAL THOUGHTS OR PLANS.

7. Other symptoms
-----------------
Does the Veteran have any other symptoms attributable to PTSD (and other
mental disorders) that are not listed above?
[ ] Yes [X] No

8. Competency
-------------
Is the Veteran capable of managing his or her financial affairs?
[X] Yes [ ] No

9. Remarks, (including any testing results) if any
--------------------------------------------------
No remarks provided.

NOTE: VA may request additional medical information, including additional
examinations if necessary to complete VA's review of the Veteran's
application.
 
The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or
impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of
functioning." Yet gives the lowest rating for occupational and social impairment.

Clinically significant is a very low threshold. It just provides the barrier for diagnosis and speaks almost nothing to the severity. Same with the other criterion. There is no real need to list them all, as long as enough is checked in each area, you meet the diagnosis. The checkbox doesn't speak at all to the severity of the symptom.

Its the history sections that you removed that speak more to the why she decided on the severity. Nothing wrong with removing them, but those are the sections that would allow the rater to decide how accurate the "mild" is. I would agree the C&P as presented represents a low rating, however the C&P is just a brief snapshot, like you said, 30 minutes. If you had a good day or a bad day and weren't describing things well due to that it can throw a curveball. If other things in your medical record suggest differently, the rater should give them due weight. If they don't, you have a reason to appeal.

That said, I think the fact you are doing full time school plus work as security stands out. To me it suggests maybe the treatment is helping you cope ok. It doesn't mean the condition isn't real and difficult, just that your struggle with it was well fought.
 
That said, I think the fact you are doing full time school plus work as security stands out. To me it suggests maybe the treatment is helping you cope ok. It doesn't mean the condition isn't real and difficult, just that your struggle with it was well fought.

Again it goes back to many things being missing from the exam. She put that I was in school full time albeit she failed to mention that the grades were borderline failing due to concentration and irritability issues. Also she failed to address the fact that I dropped to part time from full time due to issues at work with superiors and having to miss work.

Do you think the VES C&P exam with the psyc will have any weight if it has a higher diagnosis?
 
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