Honorable Discharge Changed to "Uncharacterized"

You already know NGR 600-200. The next one is AR 135-178.

Entry level characterization is in 2-11 of AR 135-178. The new 135-178 removed the ambiguity in wording on entry level status.

Entry level status
a. Upon enlistment, a Soldier qualifies for entry level status during—
(1) The first 180 days of continuous active military service.
(2) The first 180 days of continuous active service after a service break of more than 92 days of active service.
b. A member of a reserve component who is not on active duty or who is serving under a call or order to active
duty for 180 days or less begins entry level status upon enlistment in a reserve component. Entry level status for such a
member of a reserve component terminates as follows:
(1) 180 days after beginning training if the Soldier is ordered to ADT for one continuous period of 180 days or
more.
(2) 90 days after the beginning of the second period of ADT if the Soldier is ordered to ADT under a program that
splits the training into two or more separate periods of active duty.
c. For the purposes of characterization of service, the Soldier’s status is determined by the date of notification as to
the initiation of separation proceedings.



I will get the TAG POC's for TNARNG tomorrow. In short, if you have more than 6 months sitting at training before they sent you home, you should have an honorable, regardless of completion of IADT. Too many states and training sites screw up these separations and 214s.
 
You will probably need an admin add by your state SIDPERS then. I will get you a few numbers for that state's EPM. My section found out about the whole SIDPERS/ My Pay issue from a legislative inquiry and adopted a process in our SOP to follow up with DFAS before separating the soldier.
 
This all seems complicated.
Can you talk to a POC that does severance for my unit?
Maybe you can let them know about all this?
 
@danieldresen I appreciate your input and do not doubt for a second that what you state in your post is what happens. However, it is the application to this Soldier of these issues is dead wrong- at least as to her potentially getting an uncharacterized discharge. (My just stating this does not change at all what members face, but, this is why your input is valuable- it explains what happens).

danieldresen said:
Since you did not retain an MOS and were separated from Basic, and this happens frequently, you would be separated as Uncharacterized. The issue with National Guard is that yes, under most cases after you are in 180 days you are no longer considered entry level but this only applies to federal active service. You must complete 180 days of federal active service (look at your RPAS and see if you have over 195 points, 15 are membership) then you should qualify for a characterization.
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Except for the point that she was actually determined by the SECARMY to be separated as a result of physical disability, and therefore, is entitled to an Honorable characterization of service. The issue is that she was not separated (at least not properly) for entry level issues- SECARMY says she is disabled and unfit as a result of in the line of duty injury...and, per AR 600-200, disability processing trumps non-misconduct separation.

danieldresen said:
You already know NGR 600-200. The next one is AR 135-178.

Entry level characterization is in 2-11 of AR 135-178. The new 135-178 removed the ambiguity in wording on entry level status.

Entry level status
a. Upon enlistment, a Soldier qualifies for entry level status during—
(1) The first 180 days of continuous active military service.
(2) The first 180 days of continuous active service after a service break of more than 92 days of active service.
b. A member of a reserve component who is not on active duty or who is serving under a call or order to active
duty for 180 days or less begins entry level status upon enlistment in a reserve component. Entry level status for such a
member of a reserve component terminates as follows:
(1) 180 days after beginning training if the Soldier is ordered to ADT for one continuous period of 180 days or
more.
(2) 90 days after the beginning of the second period of ADT if the Soldier is ordered to ADT under a program that
splits the training into two or more separate periods of active duty.
c. For the purposes of characterization of service, the Soldier’s status is determined by the date of notification as to
the initiation of separation proceedings.
Click to expand...

All of this is true IF the other issues were not of higher authority. Leave the regs aside for a moment. Federal Law, in Title 10 U.S.C. § 1203, states that members injured on orders of 30 days or more (which BCT orders are always more than 30 days) the member will be separated under that provision with entitlement to disability severance pay.

danieldresen said:
I will get the TAG POC's for TNARNG tomorrow. In short, if you have more than 6 months sitting at training before they sent you home, you should have an honorable, regardless of completion of IADT. Too many states and training sites screw up these separations and 214s.
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Maybe I missed your earlier point...sounds like we are in agreement here. And, I can see the POCs being helpful for sorting this issue- assuming that they are willing to follow the laws and regs.

danieldresen said:
You will probably need an admin add by your state SIDPERS then. I will get you a few numbers for that state's EPM. My section found out about the whole SIDPERS/ My Pay issue from a legislative inquiry and adopted a process in our SOP to follow up with DFAS before separating the soldier.
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NICE! If you have the time and inclination it may be valuable if you can post about this- any overall points, takeaways, issues, etc.

danieldresen said:
Now if Tennessee processes these like we do here, they may have put you in the ING prior to separation. If you weren't in the ING and were actively drilling, speak with counsel and apply through ABCMR. They should NOT have discharged you until you received severance. Once you drop out of SIDPERS, unless you are retired and transferred out as retired, they can no longer see you or pay you. DEFINATELY contact your TAG ASAP! You need to be manually added back into SIDPERS to get your severance. I am out on the 1st. If you want, I can give you some numbers to talk to at TAG and tell you what regs you need to research. Separations are my job... until the 30th. Most guys I separate get in and a few days later are separated from Basic for some injury. I have only processed 3 severance cases and all 3 ended up uncharacterized due to the 180 day requirement but still received severance. All also got VA benefits. I wish you luck on this.
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Great post! It is always easiest to try to get them to "do the right thing." And, ABCMR may be the route if they do not do it voluntarily.

That said, I suspect that the wrongful discharge/INCAP pay issues would take some more sustained fighting to sort.

Rotten stuff going on here- and in all too many other cases.
 
Just to add some more- my real concern is that anyone gets sidetracked by the issue of Entry Level Separation. This is inapplicable to @pvt.brittenum 's case because she was adjudicated by the PEB as warranting disability severance for in the line of duty injuries.

This is a recurring and pervasive problem in fighting cases- people engage in a "red herring" issue, and then the authorities (be they original or appellate authorities) latch on to the engagement with the red herring and deny based on irrelevant factors.

A clear reason why this issue is inapplicable (and, I am doing exactly what I advised against, above, by entertaining this), is that apparently there was no notification (I assume- correctly under any conceivable fact pattern that board procedures would not apply) of intent to separate for ELS issues. Someone in her chain got the bright idea that they would just ignore the delegated direction of SECARMY. That is a "no-go" at this station.
 
And, not that it bears repeating, but, as I recall from my basic training (okay, also OCS, Officer's Basic Course- TC and JAG Corps), the chain of command in the Army tops out at SECARMY. So, it really doesn't matter what any State Adjutant General, much less some Brigade Commander thinks about the merits of her service. SECARMY wins on this point.
 
danieldresen said:
Were you at Ft. Benning? They screw up medical retentions and 214s ALL THE TIME. We have a guy who was arrested on a DUI after going AWOL... Ft. Benning graduated him while in jail. I think ABCMR and sitting with counsel is your best bet on this. Start with TAG and your state IG. If they aren't helping, ABCMR and counsel. Another option, you have your 214 which states severance... File an SF 95 with the staff judge advocate of your state demanding release of the severance.
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That is an interesting idea- filing a SF 95. I don't think it would actually work to get paid on that sort of claim (reason being that the FTCA, or other claim theories under SF 95 are apart from the statutory framework for claims using this form). But, it could "trigger" someone taking a look at the case and fixing it. Not something that I would advise off the bat, but, like I said, it is an interesting idea.

As for ABCMR, that is a likely route if things continue to go sideways. However, a direct filing in Court of Federal Claims may better "snap some heads" and get quicker resolution....this point is a matter of tactics (and strategy).
 
The POC for the state Automations for Tennesee is CW3 Reaves... might have changed but the number shouldn't which is 615-313-0840. If a board adjuticated the action, the 214 should state honorable and the separation should have reflected that. I am concerned as well as to why it was amended. In my state, we don't amend an order that would negatively harm a soldier without cause. They may have just keyed in on what I explained and had tunnel vision. Contact the automations section and explain the situation and hopefully they can fix this without ABCMR. If not, you may have to write the TAG directly as ABCMR will want you to go through your state first prior to acting.
 
Exactly. Situation, relief requested, and supporting documents. Always make copies of the documents. They should have them, but you never know. Stuff gets lost all the time and forgets to be uploaded into IPERMS.
 
Tell them that you believe your separation was amended in error and you are requesting it changed back to honorable, mention everything that has been mentioned in this post. Also request to be manually added back into SIDPERS to receive your severance. If you were eligble for advancement you could request that as well. I dont think you would be, but it never hurts to ask.
 
Done. I am writing the letter now. I will also make copies of all the orders and memorandums.

Everything will be sent to the TAG for review .. Hopefully, i can get this changed back.
 
Keep us updated. You shouldn't have any issues on getting the severance because there are orders. Changing the characterization shouldn't be an issue either but some states... they need a push to see that certain injustices need correcting.
 
Could take a few weeks. The response usually gets vetted through his or her staff which could have it bouncing around unfortunately. If you do not hear anything back within 2 weeks I would call your TAG. Have you contacted your state SIDPERS manager yet? I know with my state, our TAG is a really busy guy between fire missions and other travel.
 
I still trying to figure out who the SIDPERS manager is ...
I was given a few contact numbers and no one has gotten back with me.
 
Try 615-313-0922 ext 0922 or the number I previously posted. Those should be the contacts unless TN does not update their Active Directory.
 
I received an email from the SGM of my guard unit. Here is what he said:

Because you did not complete Initial Entry training per AR 635-200 Chapter
4-5 the service is uncharacterized. Also that is also in NGR 600-200
Chapter 6-35(8). Additionally you DD 214 which was done at Fort Leonard
Wood, MO has the character of service listed as uncharacterized. That is
done by the Active Component not the National Guard.

They are not going to change the characterization. So, i sent my paperwork the Army Discharge Corrections Board.
 
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