Trying to understand how AMRO fits into the process

Hello,

My therapist informed me that I was being sent to AMRO because I've been in treatment for over 12 months. She made a really big deal about it and how my commander has to write an impact statement and her NARSUM and all and how she sees people get kicked out and retained with no rhyme or reason. I really tried to get more information from her, but she clearly doesn't understand a lot of the process and the AFI is confusing (referencing IRILO and AMRO independently and then as if they are the same thing). My commander on G-series is in name only (I've never met him) because I work in AFRL and it's heavily civilian with very little military involvement, so in order to engage my boss, I need to provide all the data and examples, etc.

I'm an O-4 with 18 years of active service, which I thought put me in sanctuary, but my therapist told me she's seen people kicked out at 19 years 9 months!

Can someone clarify the difference between IRILO (which seems to include a lot of the NARSUM and CC intent and more serious nature) vs AMRO (which seems to be a quick look at someone's situation?)? How does one feed into the other? Also, am I wrong about that sanctuary time frame? I'd like to make it to 20 and then retire.

 

[Provis]

Thank you. Yeah so I want to fight to be found fit. I never knew about non concurring on the CIS so that really bums me out. Also, the NARSUM I didnt see before it was submitted.

You are welcome. So for example. You want to be found fit. Talk to your assigned legal for IDES and ask what are our my chances of being found fit? If they are slim you may want to change your strategy. You see the worst case is typically for Soldiers arguing that they are fit for duty. Therefore they minimize everything to include how they talk at the C&P exam. Due to minimizing their ratings are much lower. You can end up being kicked out with a severance check and no health insurance if you are not careful.

So you need to know which way to fight based on your situation. There are a lot of conditions that will be found unfit no matter what. Also, each branch is different. Navy leans fit. Air Force leans unfit and so does Army. The Air Force tends to weed out the ones that would be found fit via Code 31. So the ones that get put into full IDES which is Code 37 have a small shot of being found fit for duty.

 

[amsgll11]

I think I already screwed myself then, as I already had my general C&P exam. I was honest, but didnt maximize my chances at getting a rating thats for sure. My mental health exam is this week, which I totally feel I am fit in that regard so I am not even sure why I am having one.

 

[Provis]

I think I already screwed myself then, as I already had my general C&P exam. I was honest, but didnt maximize my chances at getting a rating thats for sure. My mental health exam is this week, which I totally feel I am fit in that regard so I am not even sure why I am having one.

Its not too late but it is a bit harder. If your rating isn't correct you have a chance of increasing it at the end via a VARR. Also, you should be able to see your C&P exam before your VA claim closes. So try to get your hands on it sooner than later. It used to populate in the documents section of TOL. Not sure if that is how to obtain it since the military is moving to the Genesis software now. If your C&P exam is good then you are good. If it wasn't in line with your symptoms then you can submit and upload to your VA claim a statement in support of a claim document pointing out the flaws and what it should have said. Then if you get your proposed ratings and the rating is too low still you can request a VARR at the iPEB stage. Also, if you want to challenge anything else such as TDRL, combat related or fit/unfit that is all done via FPEB.

 

[amsgll11]

Its not too late but it is a bit harder. If your rating isn't correct you have a chance of increasing it at the end via a VARR. Also, you should be able to see your C&P exam before your VA claim closes. So try to get your hands on it sooner than later. It used to populate in the documents section of TOL. Not sure if that is how to obtain it since the military is moving to the Genesis software now. If your C&P exam is good then you are good. If it wasn't in line with your symptoms then you can submit and upload to your VA claim a statement in support of a claim document pointing out the flaws and what it should have said. Then if you get your proposed ratings and the rating is too low still you can request a VARR at the iPEB stage. Also, if you want to challenge anything else such as TDRL, combat related or fit/unfit that is all done via FPEB.

See I dont even know what any of that means. I think I wont see my exams until they are all complete. What is TOL? When is the iPEB and FTEB stage? Gosh, this is wildly overwhelming when its my future at stake and I am this dumb about what I should be doing. The lawyer appointed to me has an out of office right now.

 

[Provis]

See I dont even know what any of that means. I think I wont see my exams until they are all complete. What is TOL? When is the iPEB and FTEB stage? Gosh, this is wildly overwhelming when its my future at stake and I am this dumb about what I should be doing. The lawyer appointed to me has an out of office right now.

TOL is tricare online. You can login with your DS login or CAC card. After going to your C&P exams they populate there so you can review them. You have to check every week or so. However, TOL was going away and genesis is the new health records system. You can ask for a copy of your C&P exams from your PEBLO. They should be able to get them for you once available.

Process is C&P exams then those exam DBQ's are used in conjunction with your medical records and your commander's impact statement to create a NARSUM which is your narrative summary of your overall health. Each condition claimed with the VA including ones you were referred for are listed in the NARSUM. The NARSUM states whether you meet medical retention for each condition.

Then it goes to iPEB. iPEB reviews NARSUM along with other documents such as commander's impact statements, performance reviews, etc. They decided if you are unfit for any conditions. Your PEBLO will let you know if they found you unfit or not. Several weeks later you will get an official document with the iPEB results. Not sure of the name of the form but for Army its DA199. It will list each condition and whether fit or unfit. Other details for each condition will be listed such as combat related etc. From there you can concur. If you concur you are done. You accept the findings and are separated or medically retired if those findings have at least 1 unfit condition listed. If you don't agree on that form you can choose to request a FPEB to challenge fit or unfit, combat related or not combat related etc. If you agree with the fitness but disagree on the % given for the unfit condition you can concur and request a VARR where you send an appeal to the VA to look at your ratings and in that appeal you detail why your symptoms warrant a higher rating. Its possible to concur or request a FPEB and regardless of that part you can choose to do a VARR.

Its a pretty complicated process with a lot of nuance. That's why I preach on here to consider hiring a dedicated private attorney. The free legal has countless cases they are in charge of so there are there mainly to advise you. You end up doing all the work. That's a tall task for a Solider to do such as writing up rebuttals to NARSUM, or Rebuttal to IMR, or FPEB written brief before in person or video conference or a VARR submission etc.

 

[amsgll11]

TOL is tricare online. You can login with your DS login or CAC card. After going to your C&P exams they populate there so you can review them. You have to check every week or so. However, TOL was going away and genesis is the new health records system. You can ask for a copy of your C&P exams from your PEBLO. They should be able to get them for you once available.

Process is C&P exams then those exam DBQ's are used in conjunction with your medical records and your commander's impact statement to create a NARSUM which is your narrative summary of your overall health. Each condition claimed with the VA including ones you were referred for are listed in the NARSUM. The NARSUM states whether you meet medical retention for each condition.

Then it goes to iPEB. iPEB reviews NARSUM along with other documents such as commander's impact statements, performance reviews, etc. They decided if you are unfit for any conditions. Your PEBLO will let you know if they found you unfit or not. Several weeks later you will get an official document with the iPEB results. Not sure of the name of the form but for Army its DA199. It will list each condition and whether fit or unfit. Other details for each condition will be listed such as combat related etc. From there you can concur. If you concur you are done. You accept the findings and are separated or medically retired if those findings have at least 1 unfit condition listed. If you don't agree on that form you can choose to request a FPEB to challenge fit or unfit, combat related or not combat related etc. If you agree with the fitness but disagree on the % given for the unfit condition you can concur and request a VARR where you send an appeal to the VA to look at your ratings and in that appeal you detail why your symptoms warrant a higher rating. Its possible to concur or request a FPEB and regardless of that part you can choose to do a VARR.

Its a pretty complicated process with a lot of nuance. That's why I preach on here to consider hiring a dedicated private attorney. The free legal has countless cases they are in charge of so there are there mainly to advise you. You end up doing all the work. That's a tall task for a Solider to do such as writing up rebuttals to NARSUM, or Rebuttal to IMR, or FPEB written brief before in person or video conference or a VARR submission etc.

So my experience has been this: got an email saying MEB process is started. Commander got impact statement from my medical squadron here, filled it out and returned to them. He talked to me for 5 min saying he does not recommend retention because I was categorized as non-deployable and he needs everyone to be able to deploy. Next, got an email from my Peblo with all the information/starting paperwork and option to elect to go LDES or IDES. Next, C&P exams were schedule for me and I have gone to 2/3. That's it. No other information on being able to see/rebute my NARSUM, nothing.

 

[Provis]

So my experience has been this: got an email saying MEB process is started. Commander got impact statement from my medical squadron here, filled it out and returned to them. He talked to me for 5 min saying he does not recommend retention because I was categorized as non-deployable and he needs everyone to be able to deploy. Next, got an email from my Peblo with all the information/starting paperwork and option to elect to go LDES or IDES. Next, C&P exams were schedule for me and I have gone to 2/3. That's it. No other information on being able to see/rebute my NARSUM, nothing.

You are not there yet. You are waiting for your NARSUM and that is the first time you can appeal other than the commander's impact statement. You are still early in the process.

 

[amsgll11]

You are not there yet. You are waiting for your NARSUM and that is the first time you can appeal other than the commander's impact statement. You are still early in the process.

I thought my narsum was created already by the medical provider on my base...

 

[Provis]

I thought my narsum was created already by the medical provider on my base...

Af is weird. They do a mini NARSUM as part of code 31. However, that NARSUM didn't have access to everything since they didn't have C&P exams from the VA yet. I would consult legal to learn more about the process.