YetAnother Admin Action/ MEB Question

Jason said:
Biggest issue with using FOIA in this way is that you have to show that the information impacted or mattered for later adverse actions (and, under the "substantial evidence" standard, the decision will likely still stand on review; I don't think that this standard should be applied as often as it is- I think that the "contrary to law" standard is often more appropriate). This is often the rub. You could have a "smoking gun" in the way of statements that are improper or somehow damning...but, the real issue is showing linkage to the later action. This is especially so when there are other decision makers or approving authorities above the person who made the statement. Unless the person was the ultimate decisionmaker and you can show that they actually relied on the statements, it can be futile to use those statements. I am not suggesting that it is never worthwhile to get such information. Just be aware that it is not so easy to make "hay" out of it. You have to look at the underlying issue and the facts in the record to figure out whether you can use this type of information effectively.
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Jason,
The biggest benefit of a FOIA/Privacy Act request is that the people you hit for the information.....KNOW it......and they will typically do one of two things....either come at you harder...or have a "oh crap" moment when they are handing the package to the JA for review...and realize they "could" be in deep trouble....and that "could" result in them backing off...

And you'll also find out for yourself that a couple guys who you thought were on your side...aren't...and are playing you.
 
Well as for my particular thread here and case at hand, I'm awaiting Demotion Appeal results along with awaiting my orders now that the SECAF has ruled. I have no desire to do this FOIA request, My biggest FU to my CC is going to be requesting the Retirement Ceremony with all the particulars of the retirement, flag, retired lappel, and presidential letter. That's going to be funny and I bet he doesn't even show up, has some lacky do it.

v/r
Klam
 
You might as well file a complaint, dosent realy sound like you have anything elese to lose. I am starting to go through the same thing. I feel for you it's a shitty situation

Mark
 
klamsnacks said:
Well as for my particular thread here and case at hand, I'm awaiting Demotion Appeal results along with awaiting my orders now that the SECAF has ruled. I have no desire to do this FOIA request, My biggest FU to my CC is going to be requesting the Retirement Ceremony with all the particulars of the retirement, flag, retired lappel, and presidential letter. That's going to be funny and I bet he doesn't even show up, has some lacky do it.

v/r
Klam
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How long have you been waiting orders.....
 
Oh just waiting on the SAF to re-rule on my case - before I can get orders - as they were unaware my CC was continuing to punish me when they decided to "retire me" at SrA, so now they have to go back to the grade determination part and "re-assess" or just say retire me as A1C now, but my demotion appeal has FINALLY went up to the first general that originally made the decision, that happened on the 31st of July, and heard nothing all week. THEN it will go to the Demotion Authority if he stands by his decision (which he probably will) but the appeal has the SAF's FIRST letter in there stating to retire me at the rank of SrA and that my medical condition, caused my PT failures, and my Admin punishments. SOOOOOOOOOOO, I D F K - it's BS to the fullest - Finishing my Congressional next week, and FOIA request as well. I love my squadron, they've done nothing but help me ! SARCASM! So, still waiting on orders and a new grade determination.

v/r
Klam

PS - Haven't posted because I've just been really angry about this whole situation and trying whatever I can to get help - so coming here kinda reminds me how much a lot of us are in the same situation because of BS like this so I'm trying not to pour gasoline on these boards!
 
Wow Klam
I realy feel for you, being in a simular situation. Just hang in there Two months max and you will be done with this. It's just a bad deal wiht all of us. Press forward, get out, make lots of money and then brag about it on Face Book. We had a guy in Alaska who got kicked on the old fat boy program. He got booted on Friday and started a $120K a year job on Monday. Leadership was so pissed about that, we all laughed and said good for him.

Hopeing the best for you
Drez44
 
Drez44 said:
Wow Klam
I realy feel for you, being in a simular situation. Just hang in there Two months max and you will be done with this. It's just a bad deal wiht all of us. Press forward, get out, make lots of money and then brag about it on Face Book. We had a guy in Alaska who got kicked on the old fat boy program. He got booted on Friday and started a $120K a year job on Monday. Leadership was so pissed about that, we all laughed and said good for him.

Hopeing the best for you
Drez44
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It would be nice if my disability didn't prevent me from being able to sustain a job - I'm more worried about being homeless!
 
So this week made it a month that AFPC hasn't recieved my paperwork so that could forward my documents to SAF in Washington I kept asking MPF the statues and they kept brushing me off telling me it takes time so yesterday I popped up at MPF office after no one would call me back only to find out that they have lost my package and won't be able to send my information back out until Friday that is an extra 30 days of my life waisted! Beyond pissed at this point something has truly got give!
 
Well this week made it 35+ days I've been awaiting my Demotion Appeal decision, and 45+ days I've been awaiting orders. Now 14 days or so I've been awaiting the SAF "RE-DETERMINATION" since I'm now an A1C and they made their decision based on me being a SrA and now I guess they're readdressing their own decision to reflect my CC's policy. ARGGGHHH!!!! So frustrating, so indecisive, I wish they would just get me out already - OH and they forgot to deduct my pay accurately from the Demotion, cause my Command forgot to turn in the proper paperwork to MPF on time, now I have an indebtedness to the USAF. When I called them on it and said you know my demotion could very well be overruled, they informed me I still needed to pay this back then request the pay they "didn't" pay me for if it comes back. I asked them so it wouldn't just cancel out? The A1C was like NO, absolutely not, the debt is real and justified, and any types of appeals afforded have to go to the SAF for them to rule. (YAY cause my confidence in that org is waining!

I digress, ktk2, about being beyond pissed, it's now almost 2 years for me in this process and I've been demoted 2 times since. Additionally, there are others around here that have been in the system a LOT longer than us. I know, especially I KNOW, how frustrating this can sometimes get but, lets not lose sight of our objective, and try to be as responsible as we can with our situations. I for one, just feel eventually it will be RIGHTED, granted right now the light at the end of the tunnel is barely exsistent. And believe me, I am equally guilty of being a jackass on more than one occasion around here, cause this is a good (sometimes ONLY) place to vent. I just don't wan't my thread here to turn into a woe is me, or I'm ENTITLED to this or that type of thread. It's original intent was to make people aware of an alternative situation, one they could utilize, and I could gather the resources neccesary to fight this. Now, it's slowly become more of a ranting post repository. (Again, I am guilty as charged)

v/r
Klam
 
Klam, brother your situation just gets worse. Sorry to hear that buddy. Your case has IG all over it, I know you've explored that option already but you know you can go to the SAV IG, if you feel you base IG has been negligent. I just can't seem to get why your commander want's to make your life miserable. There's got to be something else going on. If SAV IG don't work, bring the press into it.... call your local channel and give them the exclusive, I'm sure they would be thrilled, and then it might catch the wing commanders eye!
 
Ivette said:
Klam, brother your situation just gets worse. Sorry to hear that buddy. Your case has IG all over it, I know you've explored that option already but you know you can go to the SAV IG, if you feel you base IG has been negligent. I just can't seem to get why your commander want's to make your life miserable. There's got to be something else going on. If SAV IG don't work, bring the press into it.... call your local channel and give them the exclusive, I'm sure they would be thrilled, and then it might catch the wing commanders eye!
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WELL WELL WELL, as my confidence in the USAF is tested they come out of left field on the situation. THIS time for the better, after emailing my Shirt today to get an update right before posting on here, the shirt called me back to inform me that my Demotion Appeal had been approved back to my original date of rank. I'm NOW a SrA again, and that the letter would be forthcoming once she returned back to the office. (on her blackberry out of town for the morning, but would be back this afternoon). SO, that's atleast one win, and that in the email it was also identified to halt all SAF "re-determination" and they would go with the original SAF determination.

v/r
Klam

I'm going Congressional either way on the eventual outcome of my saga, the IG route was ineffective and I feel this step has been explored already.

As for my CC and any other things going on, I have been 100 percent truthful, there is nothing other than my failed fitness and physical disability. I have not received any other punishments for other than disability or fitness related.
 
klamsnacks,

Glad to hear that this issue at least has gone your way! Good for you with sticking to your guns and persevering.
 
Klam
You need to take this to congress, what they put you through is unaceptable. Bring some attention to this and maybe it will save the next guy from going through the same thing.
 
I really need some HELP!!! a lawyer or something MPS has managed two lose my package twice with no remorse! AFPC has been waiting on this information since July so that they can forward up to SECAF. MPS just blows me off when I ask questions about it like they'll get it when they get it, there is a no contact between the first shirt and myself and my POC only responds back to me when he needs information. What can I do I really am struggling to manage all this
 
IF MPS is the problem you have to hit your chain of command or the IG with proof and hard facts. Your WG IG can find and hold MPS accountable for their mistakes. Sometimes using your Chain, as long as you have a good standing with them, can really help you out when a Chief or Commander can go their leadership. This impacts your life and career and should be taken seriously, just make sure you can back up your claims before filing a complaint with the chain or the IG.
 
kmhknight said:
IF MPS is the problem you have to hit your chain of command or the IG with proof and hard facts. Your WG IG can find and hold MPS accountable for their mistakes. Sometimes using your Chain, as long as you have a good standing with them, can really help you out when a Chief or Commander can go their leadership. This impacts your life and career and should be taken seriously, just make sure you can back up your claims before filing a complaint with the chain or the IG.
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You would have to ready my entire thread, I can't trust my chain of command and IG is refusing to check into the matter even after I showed him my MFR....
 
**Update** LOL - well the waiting for SOMEONE at AFPC to go...E-3 now E-4 and date of rank is, finally ended. I "should" be expecting orders Monday or Tuesday, and can NOW finally go BACK to finance and request they pay me the money I paid them back, and then some, for the back pay to SrA rank......errr wait, NOPE didn't happen that way, what did happen is I got my rank back - but the date was the date the Demotion Authority granted my appeal. Except my appeal requested the original DOR back to June 2011. They agreed, and so did local promotions office, so NOW - I should still be expecting orders Monday or Tuesday, but can't go to finance until I get back from house hunting PTDY or Leave, until this is changed. I swear the USAF has nothing but part-time, care-free, workers anymore. I totally respect those that do help, and go out of their way like my shirt did on Wed, and Thurs to get these situations resolved, but man it's the other percentages of people that really make this process unfathomable.

-Klam

xcrossing my fingers!!
 
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