ANG prior AD, 100% P&T, actively in MEB process

A

anubis

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Hello everyone,

Before I ask my question, a little background of my situation. I'm currently 2 years ANG, with 8 years of prior AD service. Shortly after leaving AD, I received a 90% VA rating for physical issues, then eventually received a single rating of 100% P&T for mental health alone. Unfortunately, this has now led my medical unit to see me potentially unfit for duty and has started the MEB/PEB process due to my mental health. Earlier this week, a NARSUM was completed by another base, and sent to my medical squadron. My medical squadron pushed a request to my CC for a CC impact statement, which we both went over yesterday and received my signature in concurrence. I have not been assigned a PEBLO yet, and I seem to understand that some people get C&P exams before a NARSUM is written up. From what I know, in the next week or two my package will be sent to the National Guard Bureau for consideration of a waiver, and if found unwaiverable, will push my package to the formal MEB/PEB process.

I intend to utilize the following regulation of not submitting a VA claim during the IDES process, and wish for the DoD to only use the VA for DOD rating purposes only since I clearly don't need my VA rating touched at all.


I'm being MEB'd for a mental health condition that I've already received a VA rating of 100% P&T last June. I have over a year of extensive medical treatment records, on-going intensive treatment care, and medication. Around the same time, I have been excused from any AT days, TDYs and deployments from my CC, and received a formal duty limitation waiver from my medical group some months ago. With all of that said, will the PEB/MEB process require an additional C&P exam to determine their DoD rating? Or is it possible that they can utilize the already existing C&P exam that was conducted last year? If anyone was to look at my medical records, they would not question that I would without a doubt be rated over 30% for a medical retirement, as nothing has changed since I've been awarded my 100% P&T for mental health.

I understand the IDES process can take up to a year, but I was hoping it would be cut down significantly given my case. Thanks for reading!
 
anubis said:
Hello everyone,

Before I ask my question, a little background of my situation. I'm currently 2 years ANG, with 8 years of prior AD service. Shortly after leaving AD, I received a 90% VA rating for physical issues, then eventually received a single rating of 100% P&T for mental health alone. Unfortunately, this has now led my medical unit to see me potentially unfit for duty and has started the MEB/PEB process due to my mental health. Earlier this week, a NARSUM was completed by another base, and sent to my medical squadron. My medical squadron pushed a request to my CC for a CC impact statement, which we both went over yesterday and received my signature in concurrence. I have not been assigned a PEBLO yet, and I seem to understand that some people get C&P exams before a NARSUM is written up. From what I know, in the next week or two my package will be sent to the National Guard Bureau for consideration of a waiver, and if found unwaiverable, will push my package to the formal MEB/PEB process.

I intend to utilize the following regulation of not submitting a VA claim during the IDES process, and wish for the DoD to only use the VA for DOD rating purposes only since I clearly don't need my VA rating touched at all.


I'm being MEB'd for a mental health condition that I've already received a VA rating of 100% P&T last June. I have over a year of extensive medical treatment records, on-going intensive treatment care, and medication. Around the same time, I have been excused from any AT days, TDYs and deployments from my CC, and received a formal duty limitation waiver from my medical group some months ago. With all of that said, will the PEB/MEB process require an additional C&P exam to determine their DoD rating? Or is it possible that they can utilize the already existing C&P exam that was conducted last year? If anyone was to look at my medical records, they would not question that I would without a doubt be rated over 30% for a medical retirement, as nothing has changed since I've been awarded my 100% P&T for mental health.

I understand the IDES process can take up to a year, but I was hoping it would be cut down significantly given my case. Thanks for reading!
Click to expand...
Do you have a LOD? Were you referred to IDES or Non Duty Related IDES?
 
Provis said:
Do you have a LOD? Were you referred to IDES or Non Duty Related IDES?
Click to expand...
Hello, and ty for the response. I understand that LODs are incredibly important for ANG and reservices, but in my case, I have been simply asked for my DD-214, copy of my awards/decorations from the time of my Active Duty in-service stressors. I believe since the VA has already service connected my PTSD/MDD, in addition to my doctor from the past year writing a letter to my military medical provider confirming my diagnosis is tied to my AD service, I will probably be referred to the regular IDES once the ANG makes their decision.
 
anubis said:
Hello, and ty for the response. I understand that LODs are incredibly important for ANG and reservices, but in my case, I have been simply asked for my DD-214, copy of my awards/decorations from the time of my Active Duty in-service stressors. I believe since the VA has already service connected my PTSD/MDD, in addition to my doctor from the past year writing a letter to my military medical provider confirming my diagnosis is tied to my AD service, I will probably be referred to the regular IDES once the ANG makes their decision.
Click to expand...
Agree with provis. If you don’t have an LOD you still will likely be an uphill battle. I messed up my back flying a helicopter and had to still do a Non duty related PEB, then FPEB, the appeal to army HRC and now I’m back in the actual medboard process. It’s been about 3 years
 
anubis said:
Hello, and ty for the response. I understand that LODs are incredibly important for ANG and reservices, but in my case, I have been simply asked for my DD-214, copy of my awards/decorations from the time of my Active Duty in-service stressors. I believe since the VA has already service connected my PTSD/MDD, in addition to my doctor from the past year writing a letter to my military medical provider confirming my diagnosis is tied to my AD service, I will probably be referred to the regular IDES once the ANG makes their decision.
Click to expand...
I would be shocked and happy if that was the outcome. Typically that would be considered non duty related as it didn't happen while on orders for the NG.
 
Is it really that black and white and no gray? If I'm currently ANG, but my condition was clearly a duty-related issue from Active duty, the ANG would view this as non-duty related?

I've been told my PEB/MEB will be conducted at Joint Base McGuire, an active duty base. Would they, being active duty operated, still view my case as non-duty related? I find it hard to perceive them looking at my package, and not clearly seeing this was related to duty, albeit not ANG directly, but my duty on Active duty. I guess why I question this so much is that since the question of unfit for duty has been passed along with my CC and medical group, not a single word on LOD has been mentioned anywhere as being an issue or concern. Would my DD214 of 8 years, equate to a LOD essentially?
 
I did mine at Fort Gordon and they erased my army HRC direct service connection. Army HRC is the highest authority in the matter so that should get back on. But gives you an idea of what should vs shouldn’t happen. And yes. Typically once a unit determines you’re taking a deployable billet and can no longer serve, they’ll push you out. I did not have an LOD and it’s been 2.5 years because I didn’t have an LOD. Mental health is even harder because you being in the guard makes that an uphill battle. I’m at 70 for mental health from the VA and through my medboard process the active duty MH examiner said it was not service connected essentially because I’m in the guard and my last “active duty training” was 2017. My back was messed up in 2019 so that’s more than the year after AD training. Obviously I hope they’re better for you, but my experience I’ve been trying for almost 3 years now. Good luck.

Edit: we never talk about MH because of that issue right there of getting kicked out when you’re trying to make a career out of flying helos.
 
anubis said:
Is it really that black and white and no gray? If I'm currently ANG, but my condition was clearly a duty-related issue from Active duty, the ANG would view this as non-duty related?

I've been told my PEB/MEB will be conducted at Joint Base McGuire, an active duty base. Would they, being active duty operated, still view my case as non-duty related? I find it hard to perceive them looking at my package, and not clearly seeing this was related to duty, albeit not ANG directly, but my duty on Active duty. I guess why I question this so much is that since the question of unfit for duty has been passed along with my CC and medical group, not a single word on LOD has been mentioned anywhere as being an issue or concern. Would my DD214 of 8 years, equate to a LOD essentially?
Click to expand...
Conditions can be service connected but that doesn't mean they are duty related for the Guard or the Reserves. Just a FYI. You are 100% VA so its not like you will get extra compensation. If you are retired via Chapter 61 you have to agree to offset that pension by any VA compensation received. So in the short term you are trying to get medically retired to get Tricare instead of getting CHAMPVA. Also, if medically retired you may get additional compensation via CRSC but that compensation has several caps on it to include the combination of your VA compensation + earned longevity. 8 years or so in is 16% of your HIGH 3 for the blended retirement or 20% if you were on the retirement system before that one. And depending on your situation you may not qualify to get CRSC.

I think it is unlikely that you get medically retired but if you do know what you are actually getting. A lot of people try to get on here and fight for something that they have a slim chance of getting and secondly they don't even understand what they will receive if they win. For Soldiers who haven't been in for a long time in the service and not earned a substantial regular pension typically don't get anymore than the VA compensation they already receive. You don't get both unless you qualify for CRDP which means 20 year retirement or 15 year retirement if through TERA OR chapter 61 retire and qualify for CRSC.
 
New Member said:
I did mine at Fort Gordon and they erased my army HRC direct service connection. Army HRC is the highest authority in the matter so that should get back on. But gives you an idea of what should vs shouldn’t happen. And yes. Typically once a unit determines you’re taking a deployable billet and can no longer serve, they’ll push you out. I did not have an LOD and it’s been 2.5 years because I didn’t have an LOD. Mental health is even harder because you being in the guard makes that an uphill battle. I’m at 70 for mental health from the VA and through my medboard process the active duty MH examiner said it was not service connected essentially because I’m in the guard and my last “active duty training” was 2017. My back was messed up in 2019 so that’s more than the year after AD training. Obviously I hope they’re better for you, but my experience I’ve been trying for almost 3 years now. Good luck.

Edit: we never talk about MH because of that issue right there of getting kicked out when you’re trying to make a career out of flying helos.
Click to expand...
Oh man, I came here asking for a completely different question, and instead have unlocked a whole new level of fear and uncertanty with this process haha.
 
Provis said:
Conditions can be service connected but that doesn't mean they are duty related for the Guard or the Reserves. Just a FYI. You are 100% VA so its not like you will get extra compensation. If you are retired via Chapter 61 you have to agree to offset that pension by any VA compensation received. So in the short term you are trying to get medically retired to get Tricare instead of getting CHAMPVA. Also, if medically retired you may get additional compensation via CRSC but that compensation has several caps on it to include the combination of your VA compensation + earned longevity. 8 years or so in is 16% of your HIGH 3 for the blended retirement or 20% if you were on the retirement system before that one. And depending on your situation you may not qualify to get CRSC.

I think it is unlikely that you get medically retired but if you do know what you are actually getting. A lot of people try to get on here and fight for something that they have a slim chance of getting and secondly they don't even understand what they will receive if they win. For Soldiers who haven't been in for a long time in the service and not earned a substantial regular pension typically don't get anymore than the VA compensation they already receive. You don't get both unless you qualify for CRDP which means 20 year retirement or 15 year retirement if through TERA OR chapter 61 retire and qualify for CRSC.
Click to expand...
Spot on, TRICARE would be the ultimate benefit to this entire process, in addition to being formally retired would mean a lot to me, even if it's just a piece of paper. It looks like I will have to use legal council as the time comes on. If I get sent to the NDR-PEB, it looks like I have the opportunity to disagree with the PEB decision and demand a formal hearing, which seems where my main battle will take place to get this duty related.

I'm not sure how much pull this would have, but my ANG commander did put the following verbiage in the commander's impact statement:

"XXXX has been absent from military duty for the entirety of the past 12 months due to intensive mental health care for his duty-related disabilities (PTSD & major depressive disorder).

Additionally, one of the questions was

"Was the Airmen deployed when the medical condition(s) originated or was incurred?" Which my commander wrote "Origins of these conditions manifested in 2016 in Bagram Air Base Afghanistan."

Lastly, the following question was answered by my CC under the Air Reserve Component Imput (complete thiese question sif your Airmen is a Guard/Reserve". The question was: "Was the Airmen in military status when the medical condition originated or was incurrred? If yes, what type of orders/military status at the time and for how long" where my commander wrote "XXXX was an ACtive Duty Airmen when his medical conditions first appeared."

I have not personally seen my NARSUM that was written up by the AD Captain here at JBMDL, but I do understand that the commander writes his impact statement after seeing the "unsure if its drafted or the final" NARSUM. So, my assumption is that my NARSUM clearly points towards my deployments and other factors from Active duty being the result of my condition. I hope you guys see my frustration when I think that the MEB/PEB would see my case as non-duty related.
 
Last edited:
anubis said:
Spot on, TRICARE would be the ultimate benefit to this entire process, in addition to being formally retired would mean a lot to me, even if it's just a piece of paper. It looks like I will have to use legal council as the time comes on. If I get sent to the NDR-PEB, it looks like I have the opportunity to disagree with the PEB decision and demand a formal hearing, which seems where my main battle will take place to get this duty related.

I'm not sure how much pull this would have, but my ANG commander did put the following verbiage in the commander's impact statement:

"XXXX has been absent from military duty for the entirety of the past 12 months due to intensive mental health care for his duty-related disabilities (PTSD & major depressive disorder).

Additionally, one of the questions was

"Was the Airmen deployed when the medical condition(s) originated or was incurred?" Which my commander wrote "Origins of these conditions manifested in 2016 in Bagram Air Base Afghanistan."

Lastly, the following question was answered by my CC under the Air Reserve Component Imput (complete thiese question sif your Airmen is a Guard/Reserve". The question was: "Was the Airmen in military status when the medical condition originated or was incurrred? If yes, what type of orders/military status at the time and for how long" where my commander wrote "XXXX was an ACtive Duty Airmen when his medical conditions first appeared."

I have not personally seen my NARSUM that was written up by the AD Captain here at JBMDL, but I do understand that the commander writes his impact statement after seeing the "unsure if its drafted or the final" NARSUM. So, my assumption is that my NARSUM clearly points towards my deployments and other factors from Active duty being the result of my condition. I hope you guys see my frustration when I think that the MEB/PEB would see my case as non-duty related.
Click to expand...
Rated 100% VA PTIU since 2014 all combat related. Was told I was immediately entering LDES/IDES in 2016. NG has been processing my medical paperwork since that time...yes since then. No LOD. Last year they tried to separate me for non-duty. Took me eight months to correct it. I said no and they actually apologized. Luckily got my LOD through just now after years and years of my unit trying. Eventually starting the MEB/PEB for duty. Guessing it will finish in about one year from today or a little longer.
Push you profile, VA rating, a personal statement and a letter from your treating mental health doc through your S1 to state medical for an LOD. There is no time limit on TBI, PTSD and mental health in general. Good luck.

Most everyone tends to think their history will trigger the correct IDES process. It almost never does. Do not hope....take action. It is your earned benefits on the line.
 
DaveK said:
Rated 100% VA PTIU since 2014 all combat related. Was told I was immediately entering LDES/IDES in 2016. NG has been processing my medical paperwork since that time...yes since then. No LOD. Last year they tried to separate me for non-duty. Took me eight months to correct it. I said no and they actually apologized. Luckily got my LOD through just now after years and years of my unit trying. Eventually starting the MEB/PEB for duty. Guessing it will finish in about one year from today or a little longer.
Push you profile, VA rating, a personal statement and a letter from your treating mental health doc through your S1 to state medical for an LOD. There is no time limit on TBI, PTSD and mental health in general. Good luck.

Most everyone tends to think their history will trigger the correct IDES process. It almost never does. Do not hope....take action. It is your earned benefits on the line.
Click to expand...
This is great if your unit is on your side. Mine has not at all been on my side. The Texas board asked my state to add mental health and my state refused. I’ve had about 7 or 8 sworn statements too but the state refused to add anything. I’ve had to fight tooth and nail against my state and for anything. Glad it worked in your state.
 
New Member said:
This is great if your unit is on your side. Mine has not at all been on my side. The Texas board asked my state to add mental health and my state refused. I’ve had about 7 or 8 sworn statements too but the state refused to add anything. I’ve had to fight tooth and nail against my state and for anything. Glad it worked in your state.
Click to expand...
Sounds familiar. While my unit has been helping, my state has been just the same as yours it appears. Constant battle even appearing to go against common regs. Hence taking nearly 10 yrs.

Maybe I overlooked it... You stated you missed the last 12 months of drill/AT for treatment. Do you have a AF NG profile showing that you are fully restricted? That was a major piece in getting my LOD approved as in my case Army NG admitted they medically agreed to all service connected conditions.
 
DaveK said:
Sounds familiar. While my unit has been helping, my state has been just the same as yours it appears. Constant battle even appearing to go against common regs. Hence taking nearly 10 yrs.

Maybe I overlooked it... You stated you missed the last 12 months of drill/AT for treatment. Do you have a AF NG profile showing that you are fully restricted? That was a major piece in getting my LOD approved as in my case Army NG admitted they medically agreed to all service connected conditions.
Click to expand...
I do have a profile restricting me from everything except physical PT requirements.
 
DaveK said:
Rated 100% VA PTIU since 2014 all combat related. Was told I was immediately entering LDES/IDES in 2016. NG has been processing my medical paperwork since that time...yes since then. No LOD. Last year they tried to separate me for non-duty. Took me eight months to correct it. I said no and they actually apologized. Luckily got my LOD through just now after years and years of my unit trying. Eventually starting the MEB/PEB for duty. Guessing it will finish in about one year from today or a little longer.
Push you profile, VA rating, a personal statement and a letter from your treating mental health doc through your S1 to state medical for an LOD. There is no time limit on TBI, PTSD and mental health in general. Good luck.

Most everyone tends to think their history will trigger the correct IDES process. It almost never does. Do not hope....take action. It is your earned benefits on the line.
Click to expand...
man, sorry to hear! I'm hoping for the best and expecting the worst. Thankfully, I think the biggest battle for me has already been won with the VA, so I have some room to be patient with all this.
You mention the National Guard has been processing your paperwork, who exactly has this process been sitting with? THE NGB, your medical squadron?
 
anubis said:
man, sorry to hear! I'm hoping for the best and expecting the worst. Thankfully, I think the biggest battle for me has already been won with the VA, so I have some room to be patient with all this.
You mention the National Guard has been processing your paperwork, who exactly has this process been sitting with? THE NGB, your medical squadron?
Click to expand...
I'm definitely an abnormal case based on time alone. But the shortcomings in the process seem to be common.

Short answer is unit level to state and back. Now just pushed from what they call pre-IDES to whoever signs off on approving the case to go into IDES. It was a group of state civilians I dealt with for the non-duty. Guesing it's them again till they send off to the next level. Below is more detail...

I'm Army NG so slightly different I believe. For me the key was getting state level medical cmd involved. The COL interviewed me and touched up my medical files and created the profile. Then a knowledgeable and determined S1 SSG pushed my paperwork to start the LOD investigation. Due to the VA rating, Army NG State Med Cmd effort, VA doc letter and a personal statement from me, it passed the investigation and was approved. The LOD seems to be the golden ticket for locking in duty vs non-duty.

I believe you have time as well. But if it were me I would spend it getting all the paperwork in order for the LOD. You may get it at the other end like you mentioned by challenging the PEB. It is nice having it all in line ahead of time.

It will also help later with connecting CRSC potentially. And again as CRSC is under totally different standards, VA combat service connection does not mean CRSC dod board will approve combat service connection even with duty related PEB/MEB. So be ready...

Have you requested your VA C File and Code Sheet? It takes months, the military cannot see it, and the VA won't give the C file without a FOIA request. You can asked nicely for the code sheet from the VA admin. The C file will detail all you ratings reasoning which will be key during the PEB/MEB.
 
DaveK said:
I'm definitely an abnormal case based on time alone. But the shortcomings in the process seem to be common.

Short answer is unit level to state and back. Now just pushed from what they call pre-IDES to whoever signs off on approving the case to go into IDES. It was a group of state civilians I dealt with for the non-duty. Guesing it's them again till they send off to the next level. Below is more detail...

I'm Army NG so slightly different I believe. For me the key was getting state level medical cmd involved. The COL interviewed me and touched up my medical files and created the profile. Then a knowledgeable and determined S1 SSG pushed my paperwork to start the LOD investigation. Due to the VA rating, Army NG State Med Cmd effort, VA doc letter and a personal statement from me, it passed the investigation and was approved. The LOD seems to be the golden ticket for locking in duty vs non-duty.

I believe you have time as well. But if it were me I would spend it getting all the paperwork in order for the LOD. You may get it at the other end like you mentioned by challenging the PEB. It is nice having it all in line ahead of time.

It will also help later with connecting CRSC potentially. And again as CRSC is under totally different standards, VA combat service connection does not mean CRSC dod board will approve combat service connection even with duty related PEB/MEB. So be ready...

Have you requested your VA C File and Code Sheet? It takes months, the military cannot see it, and the VA won't give the C file without a FOIA request. You can asked nicely for the code sheet from the VA admin. The C file will detail all you ratings reasoning which will be key during the PEB/MEB.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the detailed reply! With the caution everyone has provided here regarding the LOD, I will be asking the question to my commander next week if a LOD has been required for all MEB/PEB processes for duty related boards, or if he has seen cases similiar to my case where my DD124, service records, VA notes, and medical records would suffice. What I'm inferring from the commanders impact statement, and his emphasis of my deployment in Bagram, I feel that he might think it would suffice, but that's just an assumption for now. I did a FOIA request 6 months ago for my DBQ, and C-file, but that hasn't resolved yet. Fortunately, my VSO was able to call a friend up and I was able to obtain a copy of my PTSD DBQ. I also think I have my decision letter from the VA which briefly mentions reasoning for granting service connection. During my NARSUM appointment, I provided the reviewing captain a copy of my PTSD DBQ and personal statement used for my VA claim.

I do appreciate the headsup with CRSC, it hasn't been on my mind to pursue it, as my main obstacle is the retirement portion, but I would be thankful for any returned benefits from my nearly decade of service.

I don't know if you, or anyone else can answer this question while I do my own research into the matter....Can the Reserves/Guard components of the DOD generate a LOD for something that happened retroactively on Active Duty?
 
That's great news on getting all the paperwork together. Technically, yes I believe you can go up for duty related without an LOD. But it's a challenge based on what everyone here has been telling me.

For whatever it's worth, I too had the same list of submitted paperwork which still sent me to non-duty. It took the LOD for me.

Experts here might be able to chime in on the AD to NG cross over. In my case it was AD title 10 time in the NG in a different state from 14 years ago or so.

Good luck!
 
DaveK said:
That's great news on getting all the paperwork together. Technically, yes I believe you can go up for duty related without an LOD. But it's a challenge based on what everyone here has been telling me.

For whatever it's worth, I too had the same list of submitted paperwork which still sent me to non-duty. It took the LOD for me.

Experts here might be able to chime in on the AD to NG cross over. In my case it was AD title 10 time in the NG in a different state from 14 years ago or so.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Good luck as well! I appreciate the advice, I think asking the question to initiate a LOD would be a great thing to start now.
 
What a mess. Thank you everyone for sharing. Is this any different for people who are have majority of their Guard time as AGR?

No one is talking about LOD for me. All of my injuries have (basically) occurred while on AGR. Certainly all my treatment has, from 2019 to now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top