Another CRSC military buy back question

[GreenBeanie]

Hey all,

So I've searched around and read alllll of the literature (I think). I have an opportunity to snag a GG (GS) position and was looking for any anecdotal experience with buying back military time. My understanding is, that if you're medically retired due to a combat injury, and are collecting CRSC, you can buy back your military time without forfeiting your current CRSC payment. I'm at 2 years fed (although currently a contractor) so would have to do another 3 years to qualify for FERS, but want to pump that up to 18 with mil time if I have the opportunity to.

I understand that it is somewhat nuanced, but has anyone pulled the trigger on this?

My Details:
13 yrs AD, PDRL @ 40% DOD, 100% VA, 100% CRSC



Thanks!
Matt

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

I know this isn't the clarity you are looking for - but I called DFAS on the phone with a very similar question. I encourage you to do the same, although I know you are trying to find it in writing somewhere. Here is how DFAS explained it to me on the phone after transferring me to several different supervisors until someone understood what I was asking:

-If you waive your DoD Retired Pay for any reason OTHER than to accept VA Disability due to a VA Waiver/Offset, CRSC stops immediately. You have waived your retired pay, which is one of the requirements for CRSC (to be entitled to, or to be receiving DoD Retired Pay). Thus, effective the date of your letter to waive retired pay, CRSC eligibility stops. They warned that if it didn't stop and you didn't catch it, you could accrue a huge debt over the years and end up owing it all back when your FERS retirement is processed, because you were collecting CRSC while no longer eligible once you waived.

Now - The way your above (DD214?) is written, with those two YES's - you may be exempt from the above issues. I believe for your SCD for leave accrual, you are definitely going to be good to go there and your 12 years will count.

"Credit for a period of military service is not allowed if the employee or Member is receiving military retired pay for such period awarded for reasons other than—

(1) Service-connected disability incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States;

(2) Service-connected disability caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war (within the meaning of chapter 11 of title 38, United States Code);"

It gets very complex how these issues affect 1- Retirement SCD, 2- Leave Accrual SCD.

Please post here when you learn more, I've been trying to track down solid answers on this exact issue for months.

 

[ndy856]

I did my buy back many years ago and I got those 2 'YES' after fighting with PEB correction board recently, so this would mean I can keep all 4 monthly checks: FERS, DoD Retirement, CRSC, and VA?

 

[RonG]

I did my buy back many years ago and I got those 2 'YES' after fighting with PEB correction board recently, so this would mean I can keep all 4 monthly checks: FERS, DoD Retirement, CRSC, and VA? View attachment 10512

Hello @ndy856
Cc: @Provis

1.As previously stated: If you waive your DoD Retired Pay for any reason OTHER than to accept VA Disability due to a VA Waiver/Offset, CRSC stops immediately. You have waived your retired pay, which is one of the requirements for CRSC (to be entitled to, or to be receiving DoD Retired Pay).

2. In order to receive VA compensation without qualification for a retirement other than disability, one has to agree to waive retired pay dollar for dollar in the amount of VA comp received. If no waiver as described in the preceding sentence = no entitlement to CRSC.

3. Recommend you visit with the FERS representatives for info on that type retirement.

——-

Edited to add:

I just answered your related question on another Vet Board (VBN VETS). It follows: “Not sure what's going on. my CRSC . monthly pays still continues until today even after my buy back already been processed and paid over 5 years ago. What am I missing here ?”

Hello,

You might considerer reporting your situation to DFAS Retired Pay in writing.

Mail

Please include your full name, daytime phone number, social security number and signature on all written correspondence.

For retirees:	For annuitants, beneficiaries and survivors:	For claims for non-receipt of payment:
Defense Finance and Accounting Service U.S. Military Retired Pay 8899 E 56th Street Indianapolis, IN 46249-1200	Defense Finance and Accounting Service U.S. Military Annuitant Pay

Ron

 

[ndy856]

So because I did paid the FERS buy back, that counts as waiving with "reason OTHER than to accept VA Disability " even tho my VA pay offset all of it?
I still have more than 15 years left of working, does it this CRSC was suppose to stop the moment my buy-back was processed which now can be a DFAS debt?

 

[RonG]

So because I did paid the FERS buy back, that counts as waiving with "reason OTHER than to accept VA Disability " even tho my VA pay offset all of it?
I still have more than 15 years left of working, does it this CRSC was suppose to stop the moment my buy-back was processed which now can be a DFAS debt?

Hello,

I am not a FERS expert.

If you waived retired pay for VA comp, then you are eligible for CRSC if other conditions are met.

The purpose of CRSC is to replace some or all retired pay that is combat related and waived in order to receive VA comp.

Ron

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

1.As previously stated: If you waive your DoD Retired Pay for any reason OTHER than to accept VA Disability due to a VA Waiver/Offset, CRSC stops immediately. You have waived your retired pay, which is one of the requirements for CRSC (to be entitled to, or to be receiving DoD Retired Pay).

@RonG - Do you know WHEN this is action would be effective? IE - Can you buy your military time back, and continue to receive your CRSC payments while a federal employee up until you retire from federal service and your FERS begins?

Ideally, then you could decide which would be more beneficial, and ask for a refund for your buy back deposit if your CRSC ends up being more valuable (though I imagine they won't refund the deposit with 17-18 years of interest accrued, despite them wanting to start charging interest on the buy back cost....

 

[RonG]

@RonG - Do you know WHEN this is action would be effective? IE - Can you buy your military time back, and continue to receive your CRSC payments while a federal employee up until you retire from federal service and your FERS begins?

Hello,
Sorry, I do not know.

Not only am I not a FERS expert; I know little about that retirement plan.

I know how to compute CRSC and
—IF you waived retired pay for VA comp, then you are eligible for CRSC if other conditions are met.

—The purpose of CRSC is to replace some or all retired pay that is combat related and waived in order to receive VA comp.

Ron

 

[GreenBeanie]

All,

From talking to multiple people it can be done (excerpt below). If the conditions are met (yes and yes to combat injuries on retirement paperwork), you are eligible to buy back your military time without forfeiting CRSC.

Only caveat is something about the Starr act
, and if it goes through could throw it out of whack (not sure how).

I’m going to be buying back my time, and when I finally get my FJO from the agency and process everything I’ll loop back and update.

Will probably be about 6 months to a year lol.

 

[RonG]

See the relationship between CHAPTER 12 AND CHAPTER 63 (CRSC, at bottom of this post)

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 12 *July 2023

3.0 CIVIL SERVICE RETIREMENT AND FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT RETIREMENT SYSTEM3

3.1 Credit of Military Service for Computing Civil Service Annuity

A retiree receiving retired pay, pursuant to any provision of law authorizing such payments, who applies for a retirement annuity under the laws administered by the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), or the Foreign Service, may elect to waive their retired pay in order to obtain credit for their military service for the purpose of increasing their civil service annuity. To avoid a delay in adjudicating a civil service retirement claim, the member should execute a waiver and send it to the DFAS at least 60 days before the anticipated starting date of the annuity.

3.2 Creditable Service If a member waives retired pay, then all periods of military service before the date of separation on which entitlement to military retired pay is based are creditable.

3.2.1. A member will receive credit for military service without waiver of retired pay, if the member was awarded retired pay: 3.2.1.1. On account of a service connected disability:

3.2.1.1.1. Incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States; or

3.2.1.1.2. Caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war as defined by 38 U.S.C. § 1101. The term “period of war” includes, in the case of any veteran, any period of continuous service performed after December 31, 1946 and before July 26, 1947, if such period began before January 1, 1947. 3.2.1.2. For non-regular (reserve) service under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 1223.

3.2.2. A member who was awarded retired pay because of military service other than service described in subparagraph 3.2.1 will be required to waive retired pay in order to receive credit for military service for Civil Service Retirement.

3.3 Initial Waiver A retiree may request waiver of retired pay so that military service may be used in establishing eligibility for and/or computation of civil service retirement annuity. The request for waiver of retired pay must contain the retiree’s signature and the effective date of the waiver of retired pay. Certain civil service annuities, starting on or after October 1, 1982, commence the first day of the month after separation from civil service or when pay ceases and the service and age requirements for entitlement to annuity are met. Individuals retiring during the first 3 days of a month are excluded; their annuities begin the following day. Also excluded are survivor annuities, disability annuities, or discontinued service annuities based on involuntary separation, death, or last day of pay. The member should also authorize the OPM to withhold amounts necessary from the civil service retirement annuity to repay amounts of retired pay paid beyond the effective date of the waiver. The retired pay activity notifies the OPM of the date retired pay is waived. The OPM, in turn, advises the retired pay activity of the actual date a member’s civil service retirement annuity started, enabling the retired pay activity to make any final settlement that might be due the retired member.

------
SEE: DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 12 FOR ENTIRE SECTION

====================================================================


DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63 * May 2022



VOLUME 7B, CHAPTER 63: “COMBAT-RELATED SPECIAL COMPENSATION (CRSC)”



4.2 Retired Status



A member must be in a retired status (i.e., on the retired rolls), or have been transferred to the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps Reserve. A member who is recalled to, or retained on, active duty is not in a retired status and therefore is not entitled to CRSC for such period of active duty.



4.3 Entitled to Retired Pay



4.3.1. A member must be entitled to retired pay, notwithstanding that such retired pay may be reduced due to receipt of VA disability compensation. A reservist who has not reached the requisite age to receive retired pay (generally age 60) is not eligible to receive CRSC payments. See Chapter 1, subparagraph 3.8.6, for when the eligibility age of a reservist will be reduced below 60 years of age and become eligible for retired pay.



4.3.2. A member who waives retired pay in order to credit military service for the purposes of establishing eligibility for a civil service retirement, or for any reason other than to receive disability compensation from the VA, is not eligible to receive CRSC payments. A member who combines his military time with his civil service time for the sole purpose of enhancing his civil service retirement may be eligible for CRSC if the member is still eligible to receive military retired pay. Members should consult the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) and Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) Handbook for Personnel and Payroll Offices for further information on eligibility.

Ron

 

[ndy856]

Interesting takes from each of you. thank you @RonG @GreenBeanie @WaitingOnPEBLO
I'm in similar situation where I was MED-PDRL with ALL offset with 2 lines 'No" for LOD & Combat, then got into FEDs, then process & paid for Buy Back, then fought & won CRSC with Army HRC, then fought & won with 2 lines "Yes" for Comat & LOD with ABCMR.

With this type of timeline & order of events, DFAS may take time to catch up and I've come to accept that I'll pay paying a low to no interest DFAS debt.
The goal is to collect 5 monthly checks till death: SSDI, VA, FERS, DoD Med Retire, CRSC, TSP.

 

[GreenBeanie]

@ndy856
Just walking into work, so not much thought has gone into this post.

From my research you wouldn’t be able to collect your DoD retirement, in conjunction with FERs and CRSC, unless I’m missing something with your situation (>20year med retirement) that I’m not familiar with.

@RonG
Tracking, I just wanted some anecdotal experience and will absolutely be talking with DFAS and HR when the time comes.

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

This document (attached) is from 2004, so I have no idea if it is accurate, but on the bottom of Page 4 it says:

"A member who waives military retired pay in order to credit military
service for purposes of a civil service retirement, or for any reason other
than to receive disability compensation from the VA, is not eligible for
CRSC."


Which seems to contradict the above guidance from

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63 * May 2022

"4.3.2. A member who waives retired pay in order to credit military service for the purposes of establishing eligibility for a civil service retirement, or for any reason other than to receive disability compensation from the VA, is not eligible to receive CRSC payments. A member who combines his military time with his civil service time for the sole purpose of enhancing his civil service retirement may be eligible for CRSC if the member is still eligible to receive military retired pay. Members should consult the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) and Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) Handbook for Personnel and Payroll Offices for further information on eligibility."

 

[ndy856]

This document (attached) is from 2004, so I have no idea if it is accurate, but on the bottom of Page 4 it says:

"A member who waives military retired pay in order to credit military
service for purposes of a civil service retirement, or for any reason other
than to receive disability compensation from the VA, is not eligible for
CRSC."


Which seems to contradict the above guidance from

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63 * May 2022

"4.3.2. A member who waives retired pay in order to credit military service for the purposes of establishing eligibility for a civil service retirement, or for any reason other than to receive disability compensation from the VA, is not eligible to receive CRSC payments. A member who combines his military time with his civil service time for the sole purpose of enhancing his civil service retirement may be eligible for CRSC if the member is still eligible to receive military retired pay. Members should consult the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) and Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) Handbook for Personnel and Payroll Offices for further information on eligibility."

so with Star Act, choosing the Retire pay over CRSC pay can help with this then if these guidances (2004 & 2022) will remain the same .

 

[RonG]

General.

A retiree can receive credit for their military service WITHOUT waiving their military retirement pay.

That would allow the retiree to waive retired pay in the amount of VA compensation and possibly be eligible for CRSC.

The CRSC could be paid since the retiree ONLY waived retired pay for receipt of VA compensation.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is THE Financial Management Regulation for CRSC:
DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63 * May 2022
VOLUME 7B, CHAPTER 63: “COMBAT-RELATED SPECIAL COMPENSATION (CRSC)”
Your favorite search engine can easily take you to the site.

The following remains part of the guidance (DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63 * May 2022.):
"A member who waives military retired pay in order to credit military
service for purposes of a civil service retirement, or for any reason other
than to receive disability compensation from the VA, is not eligible for CRSC"

The importance of FMR Chapter 12 with regard to the discussions within this thread, posted earlier this morning,

Is that

3.2.1. A member will receive credit for military service without waiver of retired pay, if the member was awarded retired pay: 3.2.1.1. On account of a service connected disability:

3.2.1.1.1. Incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States; or

3.2.1.1.2. Caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war as defined by 38 U.S.C. § 1101. The term “period of war” includes, in the case of any veteran, any period of continuous service performed after December 31, 1946 and before July 26, 1947, if such period began before January 1, 1947. 3.2.1.2. For non-regular (reserve) service under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 1223.

3.2.2. A member who was awarded retired pay because of military service other than service described in subparagraph 3.2.1 will be required to waive retired pay in order to receive credit for military service for Civil Service Retirement.

In other words, a retiree meeting the requirements with the emphasis above, can receive credit for their military service WITHOUT waiving their military retirement pay.

That would allow the retiree to waive retired pay in the amount of VA compensation and possibly be eligible for CRSC.

The CRSC could be paid since the retiree ONLY waived retired pay for receipt of VA compensation.


---
Ron