Confusion on presumptive back pay related to 2022 Pact act.

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webby808

Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Forgive me if this has been answered many times. I was Med boarded 2013. 100% VA 50% Military, which VA absorbed under ch.61.

I was over 15 years and indefinite, when medically discharged.

I was always denied CRSC, but now see conditions that I was rated for that now are included in the 2022 Pact act now presumptive under Burn Pits. Sorborrheic dermatitis and Psoriasis rated at 70%. I use several topicals, orals, and creams. I continue to have break outs and flare ups. I only today learned of Presumptive under VA qualifying for CRSC.

I also have Hypertension 0%, Tinnitus 10% Gerd 30% and Major mood depressive disorder at 50%. If it weren't for VA funny math my conditions, many I haven't listed would be well over 200%, but I digress.

I understand from the reading because I wasn't properly informed, there is no back pay from CRSC. But if approved what might I expect from DFAS CRSC back pay if any? Or going forward planning to submit for the three presumptive conditions Sorborrheic Dermatitis and Psoriasis 60%, GERD 30%, Tinnitus 10%, and 0% Hypertension?

I plan to file immediately.

Thank you for any information.
 
Hello @webby808 ,

Are you asking what will be the effective date of your CRSC or how much back pay will you receive?

Your CRSC will be the lesser / lower amount of:
--The longevity portion of your retired pay
OR
--The amount associated with the approved CRSC percentage. The VA compensation tables are used for that purpose and include applicable dependents.

The VA announced the following regarding effective dates and PACT Act: "VA announced that Veterans and survivors who apply (or submit their intent to file) for PACT Act benefits by 11:59PM ET on Monday, August 14, 2023 will be eligible to have their benefits backdated to August 10, 2022 – the day that President Biden signed the PACT Act into law. This is an extension from the original deadline of August 9, 2023. We encourage all Veterans and their survivors to apply – or submit their intent to file – for PACT Act benefits now by visiting VA.gov/PACT. "

The effective date for your service-connected disabilities (by the VA) is the earliest possible effective date for CRSC.
UNLESS
The PACT ACT had not approved those disabilities yet (2022 if I remember correctly).

CRSC approvals by each branch of service cite the effective date.

Summary: Your CRSC effective date will not be earlier than the effective date of the PACT ACT or when your disabilities were approved as service connected.

Ron
cc: @RetiredColonel-MikeT (Certified CRSC Ambassador)
 
RonG said:
Hello @webby808 ,

Are you asking what will be the effective date of your CRSC or how much back pay will you receive?

Your CRSC will be the lesser / lower amount of:
--The longevity portion of your retired pay
OR
--The amount associated with the approved CRSC percentage. The VA compensation tables are used for that purpose and include applicable dependents.

The VA announced the following regarding effective dates and PACT Act: "VA announced that Veterans and survivors who apply (or submit their intent to file) for PACT Act benefits by 11:59PM ET on Monday, August 14, 2023 will be eligible to have their benefits backdated to August 10, 2022 – the day that President Biden signed the PACT Act into law. This is an extension from the original deadline of August 9, 2023. We encourage all Veterans and their survivors to apply – or submit their intent to file – for PACT Act benefits now by visiting VA.gov/PACT. "

The effective date for your service-connected disabilities (by the VA) is the earliest possible effective date for CRSC.
UNLESS
The PACT ACT had not approved those disabilities yet (2022 if I remember correctly).

CRSC approvals by each branch of service cite the effective date.

Summary: Your CRSC effective date will not be earlier than the effective date of the PACT ACT or when your disabilities were approved as service connected.

Ron
cc: @RetiredColonel-MikeT (Certified CRSC Ambassador)
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Thank you tremendously for this information, sir. I shoud have interpreted this as it seems straight forward.
One more thing if I may? I have a TBI, post concussion syndrome, PTSD, Hypertension, Tinnitus, renal dysfunction ICD code 593.9, Cystic kidney disease 753.10, skin disease Sorborrheic Dermatitis and Psoriasis, gerd, also I have diagnosed with Thyroiditis while in service. It appears to tgey layman, and worry my interpretation is skewed.

I have documentation of and treatment from a fall down a flight of stairs while in theater. TBI 10%

Now that many of these conditions are on the presumptive list, does that automatically mean I should be eligible for CRSC? I have gathered my DD214, VA rating date and approval documentation. I have my retirement orders, my military retirement pay documents, which the VA takes, I have the VA rating documentation of each condition by percentage of each condition. My kidney disease was not rated during C&P but is documented since actually less than a year of medical retirement. Sorry, I go on and on. I am 100%VA and rated 50% Military disability rated at 50% psoriatic arthritis. 15 years of service and wasn't offered TERA. of course less tgan 20 years but over 21 for pay purposes. Still VA took all my military retirement.

How do I list so many presumptive conditions on DD 2860 when it only offers one block for one condition? Itbappears I have many now because of the pact act.

I dont know where to begin, as a fool represents oneself. I think my behavioral health therapist may have signed me up for intention to file, but I dont know for sure. As at the time I didn't understand,I might have been qualified due to pact act for crsc?

Thank you for information.

Very Respectful, William Baker
 
webby808 said:
Thank you tremendously for this information, sir. I shoud have interpreted this as it seems straight forward.
One more thing if I may? I have a TBI, post concussion syndrome, PTSD, Hypertension, Tinnitus, renal dysfunction ICD code 593.9, Cystic kidney disease 753.10, skin disease Sorborrheic Dermatitis and Psoriasis, gerd, also I have diagnosed with Thyroiditis while in service. It appears to tgey layman, and worry my interpretation is skewed.

I have documentation of and treatment from a fall down a flight of stairs while in theater. TBI 10%

Now that many of these conditions are on the presumptive list, does that automatically mean I should be eligible for CRSC? I have gathered my DD214, VA rating date and approval documentation. I have my retirement orders, my military retirement pay documents, which the VA takes, I have the VA rating documentation of each condition by percentage of each condition. My kidney disease was not rated during C&P but is documented since actually less than a year of medical retirement. Sorry, I go on and on. I am 100%VA and rated 50% Military disability rated at 50% psoriatic arthritis. 15 years of service and wasn't offered TERA. of course less tgan 20 years but over 21 for pay purposes. Still VA took all my military retirement.

How do I list so many presumptive conditions on DD 2860 when it only offers one block for one condition? Itbappears I have many now because of the pact act.

I dont know where to begin, as a fool represents oneself. I think my behavioral health therapist may have signed me up for intention to file, but I dont know for sure. As at the time I didn't understand,I might have been qualified due to pact act for crsc?

Thank you for information.

Very Respectful, William Baker
Click to expand...
Its pretty easy to apply. What branch where you in? So for example if you were Army then you apply with the Army. I can send you the link for the application. Also, @RetiredColonel-MikeT is an ambassador for CRSC and heads up a Facebook group that you can join for more information and help.
 
Re: Many presumptive conditions

“How do I list so many presumptive conditions on DD 2860 when it only offers one block for one condition? Itbappears I have many now because of the pact act.”

Section IV​

Section IV is where you’ll list your VA disability(s). It will help to have your VA decision letter(s) handy. If you have more than one rated VA disability, be sure to put them on separate pages of your DD Form 2860. You can simply make a copy of page 2 for any additional disabilities you need to list.

Page 2 Section IV
***Note*** Do not fill out additional page 1 or 3 for additional conditions, attach another
page 2 for more conditions if needed.

Ron
 
Provis said:
Its pretty easy to apply. What branch where you in? So for example if you were Army then you apply with the Army. I can send you the link for the application. Also, @RetiredColonel-MikeT is an ambassador for CRSC and heads up a Facebook group that you can join for more information
Click to expand...

Sir my last duty assignment was the Physical Evaluation Board at JBLM. I was so broken and tried to stay on active duty that they started to assign 42A to the three PEBs. Itwas just when the new system were starting to be used.

Your guidance and any help has been helpful and will be used. I have began going through the thousands of medical records and diagnosis to gather different hospitals and Doctors diagnosing the same condition over and over. What I worry about as its happened so many times before personnel interpret the regulations differently than I. I and my attorney when I was getting Med boarded with the 50% rating military and 100% VA thought and told me over and over I would recieve both pays. Little did I know and many others that the way tovsave government money, was on backs of medically discharged veterans.

I would greatly like any link or help that would guide me as to which pact act conditions I can claim. I keep reading instrument of war, nit just being near a burn pit and breatinh in the fumes or ordinance burning colors and smoke on spectrums I never seen before.

I dont have the logs or anything from the books we signed each time I had to go, almost every other day in OIF I. What can I submit, how many of the presumptive conditions can I claim from just being deployed, and not being shot at or blowed up?

Again.. just want to get this correct. I been trying since 2013 to get justice. How do I know which presumptive conditions are ok to claim from just being B.O.G. . Is that even what this presumptive act means?

Thank you for being an ambassador. Sorry Im long winded. Facebook group.. Im intrested. I want to file 26 May 2024.
Provis said:
Its pretty easy to apply. What branch where you in? So for example if you were Army then you apply with the Army. I can send you the link for the application. Also, @RetiredColonel-MikeT is an ambassador for CRSC and heads up a Facebook group that you can join for more information and help.
Click to expand...
 
RonG said:
Re: Many presumptive conditions

“How do I list so many presumptive conditions on DD 2860 when it only offers one block for one condition? Itbappears I have many now because of the pact act.”

Section IV​

Section IV is where you’ll list your VA disability(s). It will help to have your VA decision letter(s) handy. If you have more than one rated VA disability, be sure to put them on separate pages of your DD Form 2860. You can simply make a copy of page 2 for any additional disabilities you need to list.

Page 2 Section IV
***Note*** Do not fill out additional page 1 or 3 for additional conditions, attach another
page 2 for more conditions if needed.

Ron
Click to expand...
Perfect thank you so very much. But how do I know which conditions that qualify? I see Hypertension as one, but only see skin cancer not dermatitis and Psoriasis. I see Kidney cancer but not Kidney disease. I shall look uo the Facebook page. If I can find that
 
Hello,

The VA has a list of of “presumptive disabilities “. Recommend :
use your search engine for = VA PACT ACT

and/or

VA approved presumptively caused disabilities

From VA: What does it mean to have a presumptive condition for toxic exposure?​

To get a VA disability rating, your disability must connect to your military service. For many health conditions, you need to prove that your service caused your condition.
But for some conditions, we automatically assume (or “presume”) that your service caused your condition. We call these “presumptive conditions.”
We consider a condition presumptive when it's established by law or regulation.
If you have a presumptive condition, you don’t need to prove that your service caused the condition. You only need to meet the service requirements for the presumption.


From VA: Added, 20 burn pit and other toxic exposure presumptive conditions based on the PACT Act. This change expands benefits for Gulf War era and post-9/11 Veterans.

These cancers are now presumptive:

  • Brain cancer
  • Gastrointestinal cancer of any type
  • Glioblastoma
  • Head cancer of any type
  • Kidney cancer
  • Lymphoma of any type
  • Melanoma
  • Neck cancer of any type
  • Pancreatic cancer
  • Reproductive cancer of any type
  • Respiratory (breathing-related) cancer of any type
Learn more about presumptive cancers related to burn pits

These illnesses are now presumptive:

  • Asthma that was diagnosed after service
  • Chronic bronchitis
  • Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)
  • Chronic rhinitis
  • Chronic sinusitis
  • Constrictive bronchiolitis or obliterative bronchiolitis
  • Emphysema
  • Granulomatous disease
  • Interstitial lung disease (ILD)
  • Pleuritis
  • Pulmonary fibrosis
  • Sarcoidosis

Ron
 
Hello @webby808

As suggested by @Provis , recommend you visit the CRSC web site of your service.

Many of the questions you have asked have been addressed on those web pages.

This collection contains many of the links related to your questions.
Contemporary CRSC Information--Also See Update at Bottom of this Resource Page <—-LINK

Most are at the bottom of the info page.

Ron

Edited to add: There is no penalty for filing a CRSC application, even it is eventually denied.
 
When it comes to presumptive conditions you have to have them rated by the VA AND show that you were in the theater in question during the time frame(s) noted. If approved, retro pay will be as @RonG stated: back to when the PACT Act was signed into law (August 2022). Even though you may have been service-connected with those conditions long before that, they will not pay prior to the signing of it into law. Applying is easy as @Provis mentioned as well, DD Form 2860 is the form you start with, duplicating Page 2 for however many conditions that you can make the causal relationship between the condition(s) and combat-related event(s). You don't even need to go into detail for block 13j other than putting "Presumptive condition under The PACT Act". Just make sure you have documentation, such as on your DD-214, NCOER's, awards, etc showing that you were in the geographic region at the time specified. That's truly about all there is to it.
 
One last thing, and I know it sounds like I am putting the cart before the horse, my Army disability for retired pay was 50% for psoriatic arthritis. But The VA rated dermatitis and Psoriasis 60%, psoriatic arthritis 50%, no rating for Kidney disease, but documented renal disease/Kidney disease with 30% cyst on and in kidneys. I had Thyroiditis documented while in service, I know I shouldn't expect miracles, but would my percentage climb higher than the initial 50% rated by the military and more like the 100% the VA rated?
 
webby808 said:
One last thing, and I know it sounds like I am putting the cart before the horse, my Army disability for retired pay was 50% for psoriatic arthritis. But The VA rated dermatitis and Psoriasis 60%, psoriatic arthritis 50%, no rating for Kidney disease, but documented renal disease/Kidney disease with 30% cyst on and in kidneys. I had Thyroiditis documented while in service, I know I shouldn't expect miracles, but would my percentage climb higher than the initial 50% rated by the military and more like the 100% the VA rated?
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You're still going to be limited to your length of service, so your % for DoD and % for Army are based on two completely different value systems. Army is a % of your high average 36 of your basic pay, whereas your VA is based on a ratings' scale with dependents if applicable. So, can it be higher than what the Army rated you at? Of course, as long as you can show the causal relationship, i.e., presumptives in your case.
 
RetiredColonel-MikeT said:
You're still going to be limited to your length of service, so your % for DoD and % for Army are based on two completely different value systems. Army is a % of your high average 36 of your basic pay, whereas your VA is based on a ratings' scale with dependents if applicable. So, can it be higher than what the Army rated you at? Of course, as long as you can show the causal relationship, i.e., presumptives in your case.
Click to expand...
It was 1776.36 in 2013. That was 50% of my high three. At that time my High three was the same and equal to a Soldier same rank as me with 20 years of service at 50 percent retirement.
 
webby808 said:
It was 1776.36 in 2013. That was 50% of my high three. At that time my High three was the same and equal to a Soldier same rank as me with 20 years of service at 50 percent retirement.
Click to expand...
Hello @webby808 ,

The average high three base pay is the total of the highest 36 months of base pay divided by 36.

One can determine their contemporary average high three by using the gross (unreduced) retired pay on the most recent DFAS RAS and divide it by the DoD (not VA) disability percentage on their retirement orders.
EXAMPLE: 2500 gross on January RAS divided by 60% (example DoD) = 4166.67 contemporary high three

Miscellaneous.
Chapter 61 Disability Retirees:
Each CH 61 case involves these ceilings and other factors:

—Must be entitled to retired pay
—Agrees to waive retired pay in the amount of VA compensation received.
—CRSC cannot exceed the amount of the waived retired pay.
—CRSC cannot exceed the amount of the approved CRSC percentage (amt in VA Comp tables).
—CRSC cannot exceed the dollar amount of the longevity portion of retired pay.
—CRSC when combined with residual retired pay cannot exceed the longevity amount.

As one can see, more than one of the ceilings shown above could apply to the retiree. In those cases, the lesser amount is the CRSC amount.

Ron
 
Ah. Paper work... and always an angle. Sometimes in favor of Veteran or Sol. Ivalways thought being a good Stweard still meant in favor of the Soldier. I wish to thank you for your guidance, and direction. I am thankful there are few like you that are doing what they can to help. Much respect and Thanks.
 
Hello @webby808

The folks on this board are happy to help.

I would like to emphasize that @RetiredColonel-MikeT is a certified CRSC Ambassador and he knows more about filing CRSC documents than me. I am basically a bean counter.

Ron
 
I am in Alabama. I have attempted fill DD 2860, for each condition page 2 was used to claim presumptive Gulf War incurred service rated conditions separately.

I'm unsure if claimed conditions found within a year of medical retirement found in my records with MRI and labs showing the diagnosis of Kidney stones, Renal disease without VA condition code. I additionally claimed the VA ratings decision that are considered presumptive though a 0% rating was assigned, Like Hypertension.
I shall look tomorrow for a local expert.
I have read that many are requesting records showing their diagnosis and supporting facts.

I have all my records, and hope that will make things more streamlined.

I know not to send all. My DD 214 records Gulf War dates awards, the fact showing BOG. Will I still need to submit additional documents for claims of service connected presumptive conditions the VA has approved accepted, and assigned a permanent rating of Gulf War Incurred service connected disabilities already?

You guys rock and have a tremendous amount of patience.

V/R

William Baker
 
webby808 said:
I am in Alabama. I have attempted fill DD 2860, for each condition page 2 was used to claim presumptive Gulf War incurred service rated conditions separately.

I'm unsure if claimed conditions found within a year of medical retirement found in my records with MRI and labs showing the diagnosis of Kidney stones, Renal disease without VA condition code. I additionally claimed the VA ratings decision that are considered presumptive though a 0% rating was assigned, Like Hypertension.
I shall look tomorrow for a local expert.
I have read that many are requesting records showing their diagnosis and supporting facts.

I have all my records, and hope that will make things more streamlined.

I know not to send all. My DD 214 records Gulf War dates awards, the fact showing BOG. Will I still need to submit additional documents for claims of service connected presumptive conditions the VA has approved accepted, and assigned a permanent rating of Gulf War Incurred service connected disabilities already?

You guys rock and have a tremendous amount of patience.

V/R

William Baker
Click to expand...
For presumptives, key in more on the VA ratings decisions vs digging through your records. As long as the VA finds it service-connected and you were in the geographic location, that's all the supporting documentation you'll need for said condition, rinse, repeat as needed. If it's something else that's not presumptive, that's when you'll have to dig into your records, tab/highlight as necessary to make it a little easier on the CRSC analyst. If a condition is rated at 0% include it, here's why: it's easier to do a ratings increase than go through the extra work later.
 
RetiredColonel-MikeT said:
For presumptives, key in more on the VA ratings decisions vs digging through your records. As long as the VA finds it service-connected and you were in the geographic location, that's all the supporting documentation you'll need for said condition, rinse, repeat as needed. If it's something else that's not presumptive, that's when you'll have to dig into your records, tab/highlight as necessary to make it a little easier on the CRSC analyst. If a condition is rated at 0% include it, here's why: it's easier to do a ratings increase than go through the extra work later.
Click to expand...
Iam going to attept to fax just that. My DD 214, VA rating along with DD286. Wish me luck
 
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