CRSC, Chapter 61, Residual Retired Pay and Tax Exemption

SRVC_CMPLT

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Greeting all,

I have a situation related to the post title that i'm hoping someone here might have experience with. Long story so please bear with me before i get to the question;

I medically retired (chp 61) after 20 years of service. The MEB/PEB found the condition i was boarded for unfit for service and NOT combat related. I asked my MEB lawyer to request that the board make a combat determination on the other injuries noted in the exams. The MEB refused to make a determination stating that that is not their job/ role, that i would need to apply for CRSC to get a combat determination on the remaining injuries. I found out that you cannot apply for CRSC until AFTER you are retired and are in receipt of a VA waiver. I wasnt trying to get money or tax exemption for the combat injuries (i though my CRDP would be more anyway) but i wanted an official document that states whether i have combat injuries or not before i get out, because things are more difficult as a retiree. BTW i think this policy needs to change, there should be some way to get combat determination without having to apply for VA benefits.

After I retired I was given disability retired pay based on my disability percentage, not longevity. My initial letter from DFAS stated the injury i was boarded for was not combat related and I was therefor taxed on my retired pay. Of note; the rules for chapter 61 and taxes is that if you are medically retired AND the injuries ARE combat related, then your retired pay will be tax exempt. I applied for VA benefits and then CRSC once the VA benefits were approved. 2 months after retiring and receiving retired pay based on disability percentage my VA claim was approved and DFAS began paying me CRDP. All chapter 61 retirees should be aware that the way DFAS readjusts your disability pay to longevity pay is to pay you your disability pay, and then take away the amount that is the difference between disability and logetivity. for example my disability pay was $3,000.00 and longevity pay was $2,800 so DFAS pays me $3,000 and then takes away $200 in what they call a VA waiver to make my pay reflect longevity amount It would be so much simpler if they just paid the $2,800...it makes things complicated because now i am technically getting paid disability pay ($3000) but it is reduced to longevity pay, but is it still considered disability pay?

3 months after receiving CRDP my CRSC was approved for an amount that I wasnt expecting and DFAS began paying me CRSC, not CRDP...CRSC is not reflected on the RAS but CRDP is which is something i also thing should change, AND the CRSC board determined that the condition i was boarded for IS combat related. So now I get a CRSC payment, my VA pay, and my residual retired pay (which is no longer reduced by $200 which was called a VA waiver). However, i still do have a VA waiver, but now the VA waiver is the actual money i get from the VA based on VA disability percentage. After 3 more months i realized that I am now a chapter 61 retiree whos condition i was chaptered for is combat related.

So, my retirement orders, MEB results, and first letter from DFAS after retiring all state the condition i was boarded for is NOT combat related, but the CRSC board, 6 months later, determined that the condition is combat related. Technically i think given that i am a chp 61 retiree whos conditions were determined to be combat related, should have my residual pay tax exempt. I wrote DFAS on "AskDFAS", called them and even sent them a written request to determine if i should be tax exempt on my residual retired pay. So far nothing, on the phone they say thats not something they can do and i havent heard back from the written request.

Question: Do you think my residual pay should be taxed exempt based on the info above. Also, is my residual retired pay with CRSC a disability payment or not since it is reduced by the VA offset which effectively makes it pay based on longevity? Remember that there is a CRSC offset for chapter 61 that caps the total amount of residual pay and CRSC to the amount you would have gotten based on longevity. The way DFAS does this is by reducing the CRSC payment, not the residual retired pay like they do with CRDP. So, the amount i am paid in residual pay is based on disability and then reduced by my CRSC payment...which is reduced by the VA offset.

sorry about the long post...im very confused and so far no help from DFAS.

Rob
 
Greeting all,

I have a situation related to the post title that i'm hoping someone here might have experience with. Long story so please bear with me before i get to the question;HE

Question: Do you think my residual pay should be taxed exempt based on the info above. Also, is my residual retired pay with CRSC a disability payment or not since it is reduced by the VA offset which effectively makes it pay based on longevity? Remember that there is a CRSC offset for chapter 61 that caps the total amount of residual pay and CRSC to the amount you would have gotten based on longevity. The way DFAS does this is by reducing the CRSC payment, not the residual retired pay like they do with CRDP. So, the amount i am paid in residual pay is based on disability and then reduced by my CRSC payment...which is reduced by the VA offset.

sorry about the long post...im very confused and so far no help from DFAS.

Rob
Hello,

My case: Regular retirement of more 20 AD, 100% CRSC. All my retired pay is waived for CRSC and I receive CRSC in the same amount of what my gross retirement pay had been. No residual retired pay involved since the VA waiver amount was more than the retired pay. Just background info...plus I have worked CRDP and CRSC cases since the early days of Concurrent Receipt.

Reference: DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63--CRSC

8.5.2. Reductions for Periods On or After January 1, 2013. 8.5.2.1. Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61 with 20 or more years of creditable service computed under section 10 U.S.C. § 1208 will have the maximum CRSC payment restricted to the amount, which when combined with any remaining retired pay after VA offset, will not exceed the applicable retired pay to which the member would otherwise have been entitled under any other provisions of law. A retiree who accepted the Career Status Bonus will have the reduced amount calculated based on retired pay that would otherwise have been computed under 10 U.S.C. § 1409(b)(2).

Reference
: Defense Finance and Accounting Service > RetiredMilitary > manage > taxes > isittaxable <----Link to "Is it Taxable"

VA Compensation Deduction: For most members who retired under a non-disability law, retired pay taxable income is simply reduced by the amount of any VA compensation received. For members who retired under the Temporary Disability Retired List or the Permanent Disability Retired List, retired pay taxable income is reduced by whichever of the following is greater:
  • The amount of VA compensation received or
  • A tax-exempt amount of gross pay determined by the following formula:
Step 1:
Military (not VA) disability percentage: %
x (times) Active Duty pay at the time of retirement:
= (equals) Initial amount of tax-exempt gross pay

Step 2:
Initial amount of tax-exempt gross pay:
x (times) applicable Cost-Of-Living-Adjustment (COLA): %
= (equals) Current tax-exempt gross pay

Thoughts: Although the residual retired pay plus CRSC cannot exceed the longevity computation, the residual retired pay is disability retired pay and the rules that pertain to the taxability of disability retired pay should apply. The fact that the longevity computation is used to determine the CRSC ceiling in these cases, does not change the character of the initial payment itself. I am not a tax expert and recommend you review the IRS pages for additional information.

Good luck,
Ron
Retired Army Finance Senior NCO
 
thanks so much Ron...

Here is why i am confused; last year DOHA determined that Chp 61 retirement, when combined with CRDP (a form of concurrent reciept) is Not considered disability pay. In short DFAS pays the disability percentage and then reduces it by the "VA waiver" to have pay equal longevity pay. That is why CRDP is divisible in divorce. CRSC is essentially the same thing, it is disability pay reduced by a VA offset" to have pay equal longevity pay. The only difference is that the VA waiver in CRDP is dedcuted from retired pay, while the VA offset is deducted from the actual CRSC payment not the residual pay.

Although everywhere i have read states that CRSC is not taxable, they are only referring to the actual VA offset amount and not any residual retirement.
 
Also...

you stated " The fact that the longevity computation is used to determine the CRSC ceiling in these cases, does not change the character of the initial payment itself.", but that is exactly what happens when CRDP is converted to retired longevity pay. and that is why CRDP is divisible in divorce....because the disability pay, when converted to longevity changes the character of the initial payment.
 
Also...

you stated " The fact that the longevity computation is used to determine the CRSC ceiling in these cases, does not change the character of the initial payment itself.", but that is exactly what happens when CRDP is converted to retired longevity pay. and that is why CRDP is divisible in divorce....because the disability pay, when converted to longevity changes the character of the initial payment.
Hello,

CRDP is payable to those who qualify for the pay via:
--50% or more VA rating and agree to accept VA compensation
--Be retired: regular; non-regular; TERA; and disability retirees who also qualify by the other retirements listed in this sentence.

CRDP is not payable for a disability retirement by itself. They must qualify for by eligibility for: regular; non-regular; or TERA.

I want to put your quotation in context: I placed my remarks under, Thoughts: . Those "thoughts" reflected my opinions.

Elsewhere, I have provided the chapters of the DoD Financial Regulation for CRSC and CRDP. I also recommended reviewing IRS pages that might be applicable.

Other than calling DFAS or writing your lawmakers, I have nothing more to offer.

Good luck,
Ron
 
Thanks Ron

i have called and written DFAS with no luck. I suspect there might be some sort of gray area that is coming into play with my pay. I dont expect anyone here to have all the answers but was simply writing to have a conversation where others might have experience with the matter and are willing to offer opinions and thoughts.

Rob
 
Thanks Ron

i have called and written DFAS with no luck. I suspect there might be some sort of gray area that is coming into play with my pay. I dont expect anyone here to have all the answers but was simply writing to have a conversation where others might have experience with the matter and are willing to offer opinions and thoughts.

Rob
My take is that you’re not in a gray area. The PEB and service board that decided CRSC make separate determinations on combat relation to injuries. One does not bind the other to make the same decision.
 
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Hello @SRVC_CMPLT

I dug around DFAS and found this:
"Concurrent Retirement Disability Payments (CRDP): CRDP is a restoration of your retired pay, not a separate entitlement. Therefore, if your retired pay is taxable so is any CRDP payments you receive. If your retired pay is non-taxable, your CRDP is also non-taxable."

Defense Finance and Accounting Service > RetiredMilitary > manage > taxes > isittaxable <---LINK
Page Updated Jan 27, 2022

TDRL/PDRL Exemption: If you retired under a disability law (Temporary Disability Retirement List or Permanent Disability Retirement List), your retired pay will be fully non-taxable if your pay is calculated based upon your military (not VA) disability percentage and you meet one of the following conditions:
  • You were in the military or under a contractual obligation to join the military on September 24, 1975, or
  • Your military disability rating is combat-related
The welcome letter you received from DFAS when you first retired indicates whether your pay is computed using your military percentage of disability or your years of service.

Ron
 
My take is that you’re not in a gray area. The PEB and service that decided CRSC make separate determinations on combat relation to injuries. One does not bind the other to make the same decision.
Thanks JMATTK - but that sort of begs the question doesnt it? If they dont have to agree, which one is the final authority on whether a condition is considered combat related? because the regulations pertaining to combat injuries do not state based on one or the other. Also, the PEB made it clear that it is not there responsibility to determine combat relatedness. If it is the services responsibility then i would say my injuries are combat related and subject to tax exemption...but so far, DFAS has not exempted my pay.
 
Thanks JMATTK - but that sort of begs the question doesnt it? If they dont have to agree, which one is the final authority on whether a condition is considered combat related? because the regulations pertaining to combat injuries do not state based on one or the other. Also, the PEB made it clear that it is not there responsibility to determine combat relatedness. If it is the services responsibility then i would say my injuries are combat related and subject to tax exemption...but so far, DFAS has not exempted my pay.
The PEB does determine combat relatedness but only for unfitting conditions.
 
Hello @SRVC_CMPLT

I dug around DFAS and found this:
"Concurrent Retirement Disability Payments (CRDP): CRDP is a restoration of your retired pay, not a separate entitlement. Therefore, if your retired pay is taxable so is any CRDP payments you receive. If your retired pay is non-taxable, your CRDP is also non-taxable."

Defense Finance and Accounting Service > RetiredMilitary > manage > taxes > isittaxable <---LINK
Page Updated Jan 27, 2022

TDRL/PDRL Exemption: If you retired under a disability law (Temporary Disability Retirement List or Permanent Disability Retirement List), your retired pay will be fully non-taxable if your pay is calculated based upon your military (not VA) disability percentage and you meet one of the following conditions:
  • You were in the military or under a contractual obligation to join the military on September 24, 1975, or
  • Your military disability rating is combat-related
The welcome letter you received from DFAS when you first retired indicates whether your pay is computed using your military percentage of disability or your years of service.

Ron
Ron

The welcome letter i recieved from DFAS said the injuries were not combat related...because it was based on the determination by the PEB. The Department of the Army, the authority for combat determination according to the PEB, sais 6 months later that the injuries were combat related. Therefore, I am in the PDRL and meet the condition in bullet 2 of your message above. It has been 6 months since i recieved CRSC and 3 months since i have been asking DFAS why my pay is taxed...radio silence from DFAS.
 
Hello @SRVC_CMPLT

I dug around DFAS and found this:
"Concurrent Retirement Disability Payments (CRDP): CRDP is a restoration of your retired pay, not a separate entitlement. Therefore, if your retired pay is taxable so is any CRDP payments you receive. If your retired pay is non-taxable, your CRDP is also non-taxable."

Defense Finance and Accounting Service > RetiredMilitary > manage > taxes > isittaxable <---LINK
Page Updated Jan 27, 2022

TDRL/PDRL Exemption: If you retired under a disability law (Temporary Disability Retirement List or Permanent Disability Retirement List), your retired pay will be fully non-taxable if your pay is calculated based upon your military (not VA) disability percentage and you meet one of the following conditions:
  • You were in the military or under a contractual obligation to join the military on September 24, 1975, or
  • Your military disability rating is combat-related
The welcome letter you received from DFAS when you first retired indicates whether your pay is computed using your military percentage of disability or your years of service.

Ron
Ron, If CRSC compensation goes to 100% due to recent changes in VA presumptive illnesses, would DoD pay become tax free?
 
The PEB does determine combat relatedness but only for unfitting conditions.
I havent seen anything in the regualations that suggests tax exemption is only based on the PEB findings. As stated, the Dept of the Army also found the unfitting condition to be combat related.
 
Ron

The welcome letter i recieved from DFAS said the injuries were not combat related...because it was based on the determination by the PEB. The Department of the Army, the authority for combat determination according to the PEB, sais 6 months later that the injuries were combat related. Therefore, I am in the PDRL and meet the condition in bullet 2 of your message above. It has been 6 months since i recieved CRSC and 3 months since i have been asking DFAS why my pay is taxed...radio silence from DFAS.
When you say “department of the army” are you talking about CRSC? There are two separate regulations/codes in US Law that govern the determination made by the PEB and CRSC folks.
 
I havent seen anything in the regualations that suggests tax exemption is only based on the PEB findings. As stated, the Dept of the Army also found the unfitting condition to be combat related.
Tax exemption for retried pay is only based off of the PEB determination. No percentage of CRSC can change that fact.
 
Tax exemption for retried pay is only based off of the PEB determination. No percentage of CRSC can change that fact.
that would explain why DFAS hasnt done anything...but nothing I have read in any of the regulation says that it is the PEB decision that decides tax exemption. If you have that in writing somewhere i would appreciate it.
 
that would explain why DFAS hasnt done anything...but nothing I have read in any of the regulation says that it is the PEB decision that decides tax exemption. If you have that in writing somewhere i would appreciate it.
I’ll see what I can dig up later.
 
When you say “department of the army” are you talking about CRSC? There are two separate regulations/codes in US Law that govern the determination made by the PEB and CRSC folks.
Yes i am referring to the CRSC board. I understand they are governed by different policies, but the tax exemption is based on a different policy. And like what Ron has provided, nothing refers to the PEB for tax exemption
 
Yes i am referring to the CRSC board. I understand they are governed by different policies, but the tax exemption is based on a different policy. And like what Ron has provided, nothing refers to the PEB for tax exemption
The CRSC board is not authorized to change anything on your DA 199 which is what the determination for taxes on retirement pay is based off of
 
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