Narsum Returned to Peblo. 3 days to sign. Unfit questions

K

Kattwood

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Hello all,

I have recieved my c and p results and my narsum from my peblo. She says i have three days to sign or request an impartial review. A few questions i have are....

Does the Air force only rate the condition on the NARSUM?

I am being rated for pain in right ankle and foot, However i had the same surgeries to my left ankle. Shouldnt that be included?

Where do i find the AFI for a list of all unfitting conditions?


I sent all the information to SA legal and am waiting to hear back from them.

I just was so confused by this process as it is a lot slammed in my face and i dont want to mess anything up. Any insight is helpful.
 
You should fight to have ALL possible unfitting conditions addressed on the NARSUM. I had to go back (with a lawyer) and get additional unfitting conditions added during the FPEB phase and it was a pain. Your DES attorney should be able to help you send back the NARSUM with a request to address the other issues (left ankle and possible others?)

The more unfitting conditions addressed on the NARSUM, the higher possible DoD rating, thus a better chance at retirement vs. separation. So IMHO you should insist anything that could possibly be seen as unfitting should be addressed on the NARSUM.
 
Thank you! I thought they would add all unfitting conditions that came back from C and P results. Im hoping legal will help me with getting the narsum fixed. How long of a delay did this cause?
 
Contact the Office of Airmen’s Counsel before signing. The retention standards for the AF are posted under the resources tab of this website.
 
chaplaincharlie said:
Contact the Office of Airmen’s Counsel before signing. The retention standards for the AF are posted under the resources tab of this website.
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I have these three options. Agree, Disagree with IMR/REBUTTAL or agree with rebuttal only.

Is a Independent Medical Examine necessary if my medical records show the diagnosis/symptoms? I am being referred to med for opiode use and right ankle pain and joints of foot. But migraines, sleep apnea with daytime somnolence, gout are all in the DoDI 6130.03. I have been treated for bilateral foot/ankle pain with 2 surgeries to the left foot and three to the right. I was surprised they did not put both on my narsum. I feel as if this process is to just get the paperwork done on their end.
 
Kattwood said:
I have these three options. Agree, Disagree with IMR/REBUTTAL or agree with rebuttal only.

Is a Independent Medical Examine necessary if my medical records show the diagnosis/symptoms? I am being referred to med for opiode use and right ankle pain and joints of foot. But migraines, sleep apnea with daytime somnolence, gout are all in the DoDI 6130.03. I have been treated for bilateral foot/ankle pain with 2 surgeries to the left foot and three to the right. I was surprised they did not put both on my narsum. I feel as if this process is to just get the paperwork done on their end.
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I would consult legal but probably do a rebuttal so that you start showing them what you want. You are fighting at this level so that its in writing for the FPEB to read because for most getting a condition added will require a FPEB. Also, what does your commander's impact statement say? If there is no mention of those conditions affecting your performance then you have an uphill battle to climb. If lacking in that area would your commander be willing to fill out and sign a new one that mentions those other conditions and how they negatively affect your work performance or prevent you from doing critibla tasks for your MOS?

Do you have a profile for migraines, sleep apnea with daytime sleepiness, & Gout? If so what are the limitations? If not, again, you have an uphill battle. Remember that being found unfit for a condition has more to do with how it prevents you from doing your job. That is why the Physical Evaluation Board decides and not medical. The MEB is just rational that helps the PEB come to a conclusion and most times whatever the MEB states the PEB will rule in kind. That's why most of the time conditions referred to IDES are the only ones the MEB states don't meet medical retention standards in the NARSUM.
 
Since you want to make 20, the IMR will take the most time to complete. But there is so much money on the line to get to 20 YOS, I’d talk to legal.
 
Provis said:
I would consult legal but probably do a rebuttal so that you start showing them what you want. You are fighting at this level so that its in writing for the FPEB to read because for most getting a condition added will require a FPEB. Also, what does your commander's impact statement say? If there is no mention of those conditions affecting your performance then you have an uphill battle to climb. If lacking in that area would your commander be willing to fill out and sign a new one that mentions those other conditions and how they negatively affect your work performance or prevent you from doing critibla tasks for your MOS?

Do you have a profile for migraines, sleep apnea with daytime sleepiness, & Gout? If so what are the limitations? If not, again, you have an uphill battle. Remember that being found unfit for a condition has more to do with how it prevents you from doing your job. That is why the Physical Evaluation Board decides and not medical. The MEB is just rational that helps the PEB come to a conclusion and most times whatever the MEB states the PEB will rule in kind. That's why most of the time conditions referred to IDES are the only ones the MEB states don't meet medical retention standards in the NARSUM.
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My commander impact letter mentions my foot/ankle pain, migraines,sleep apnea/insmnoia and gout. However, i did not have a separate profile for each condition as i thought it was all combined. I only took one PT test in my military career and that was the final one in basic training. I have been exempt from all PT test to this day.. I want to receive a Permanent Retirement but i think the max rating for a foot is 20%.

Thank you for your response.
 
Provis said:
I would consult legal but probably do a rebuttal so that you start showing them what you want. You are fighting at this level so that its in writing for the FPEB to read because for most getting a condition added will require a FPEB. Also, what does your commander's impact statement say? If there is no mention of those conditions affecting your performance then you have an uphill battle to climb. If lacking in that area would your commander be willing to fill out and sign a new one that mentions those other conditions and how they negatively affect your work performance or prevent you from doing critibla tasks for your MOS?

Do you have a profile for migraines, sleep apnea with daytime sleepiness, & Gout? If so what are the limitations? If not, again, you have an uphill battle. Remember that being found unfit for a condition has more to do with how it prevents you from doing your job. That is why the Physical Evaluation Board decides and not medical. The MEB is just rational that helps the PEB come to a conclusion and most times whatever the MEB states the PEB will rule in kind. That's why most of the time conditions referred to IDES are the only ones the MEB states don't meet medical retention standards in the NARSUM.
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My commander impact letter mentions my foot/ankle pain, migraines,sleep apnea/insmnoia and gout. However, i did not have a separate profile for each condition as i thought it was all combined. I only took one PT test in my military career and that was the final one in basic training. I have been exempt from all PT test to this day.. I want to receive a Permanent Retirement but i think the max rating for a foot is 20%.

Thank you for your response.
 
Kattwood said:
My commander impact letter mentions my foot/ankle pain, migraines,sleep apnea/insmnoia and gout. However, i did not have a separate profile for each condition as i thought it was all combined. I only took one PT test in my military career and that was the final one in basic training. I have been exempt from all PT test to this day.. I want to receive a Permanent Retirement but i think the max rating for a foot is 20%.

Thank you for your response.
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I sent you some references. Might be worth it in your situation to hire a dedicated private attorney if you can afford it.
 
Does anyone know if the va rates feet and ankle seperate? Or is it one rating for both
 
I might add if there is also nerve damage, that may be rated. It is hard to answer your question because we are not privy to the details.
 
chaplaincharlie said:
I might add if there is also nerve damage, that may be rated. It is hard to answer your question because we are not privy to the details.
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Yes there is nerve damage as well.veey well documented with studies and surgeries. I just submitted my rebuttal docs to my peblo. I am wanting to have my left foot and ankle, peripheral neuropathy, hallux valgus and gout added to the narsum. Wish me luck and thank you all for the advice! Will update post when I hear back
 
You’re welcome. We hope to hear things went your way. Good luck.
 
chaplaincharlie said:
You’re welcome. We hope to hear things went your way. Good luck.
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My OCD emailed me and said that I may prefer severance over dod retirement. He wants me to call after I get my ipeb results. I know I'm 100% proposed VA. But I'm curious on where he is going. I thought retirement was better.
 
I can’t think of a reason to take severance. Usually the member ends up forfeiting severance pay to accept VA pay. Retirement means TriCare for Life. Also if your retired pay is higher than VA pay, you’ll get a little bit from DoD.


BLUF: question the advice
 
Kattwood said:
My OCD emailed me and said that I may prefer severance over dod retirement. He wants me to call after I get my ipeb results. I know I'm 100% proposed VA. But I'm curious on where he is going. I thought retirement was better.
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Severance for most is just a loan because you get a big check and then the VA deducts an amount from your pay equal to the condition that is found unfit for severance. If you accept severance you don't get tricare so that alone for me is a deal breaker. Tricare for a family of 4 is equivalent of $2,000 a month worth of private insurance in my situation. If you medically retire you are set for life for insurance and for your family regardless of how big it gets. That is huge!

For those who don't care about tricare the best scenario is to be found unfit with a condition at 0% and be 100% VA P&T. That would allow you to get a severance check and all of your VA compensation without deductions from VA compensation and allow you to get ChampVA insurance for you and your family. However, VA can change ratings and it has happened with Soldiers that where already designated P&T. So there is some risk. That and Tricare is a superior product compared to VA healthcare in my personal opinion.

Other ways to avoid recoupment of the severance check paid out is to have 100% VA rating from all other conditions that are not unfitting. So if 10% or 20% you could still not have to pay it back if all your other conditions combined = 100% without including the unfitting conditions that caused you to be separated with severance.
 
Kattwood said:
Thank you! I thought they would add all unfitting conditions that came back from C and P results. Im hoping legal will help me with getting the narsum fixed. How long of a delay did this cause?
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I learned that the only things they will add are the rating in which you received for the main issue like your right knee for example but if you listed it in your conditions and that condition is found still fitting to serve you can still get a disability rating with the VA, and that rating will be sent separately from the Army or Air Force. Now my unfit conditions also receive a percentage from the VA and that is what the PEB/MEB seem to use as your/their determination, and of course if you don't like it you can appeal. This is where I am at in the process, also being involuntarily extended, per my ets is 30 April 2024 :/ Legal is the best, they have helped me when I got the initial results from the C&P examination and the results through the entire process, they are amazing, and they have so much work. Never sign anything until you are sure its 100% correct and you are happy with the results and achieved what you want. ** Also keep in mind if you're paying for TRICARE while in the army/ or whatever service your looking at 1400 for a family of four if you fall under the non-regular retirement time frame, if you fight hard and I mean FIGHT for Medical Retirement you are looking at under 100$ and imagine that alone for the rest of your life, given the costs associated with Health Care. I am fighting my PEB results because they recommended 10% with severance and I am at 18+ years. I appealed and have a formal hearing set for 6 August 2024- 4 months after my ETS and a solid DBQ from my Neurologist, that should put me in accordance with 30% or more in order to obtain Army Medical Retirement.
 
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