New members (anti-spam and support of the forum)

Jason Perry

Jason Perry

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I am trying something out to both support the forum, to cut down on spam and to help make this community better....

I have instituted (on a trial basis, at least) a $1/mo. fee for folks who recently register with the forum and want to post. (After being a member with posting privileges, then members will be moved to a permanent membership status and not have to pay anything else to retain all of their membership privileges). The reasons for this trial payment idea are many fold.

First and foremost, I want to try to eliminate spam on the forum. Spam is both annoying and takes me a lot of time to address. Tonight, I spent about 90 minutes cleaning up spam on the forum. In theory, I could maybe have moderators or staff do this....but, over the past many years of having this forum up, my experience has shown that most folks who are moderators stay here- just like most members- for a period of time and then move on. This is natural and expected by me; if you are not currently or even recently going through the military disability evaluation system process, you likely don't have either recent experience or interest in this site's issues. It is natural that people "move on."

Second, it takes me a lot of time to deal with spam and forum issues. Spent about 90 minutes of time just dealing with spam tonight. Sorry, but, I can't do this several times per week. Also, every minute spent on spam issues is time that I am not answering questions or posting updates.

Third, while I spend a bunch out of pocket for this site, and I have no hurt feelings about this (and have done so for several years), I also think that it would help me to advance the site and make it better if there is some further financial support. Some members have been really supportive and have donated generously. I really appreciate this and am thankful for that. But, as time goes by, my costs go up and it takes more of my resources, money and time to keep this site up and moving forward. It struck me that it has been awhile since I have posted an update as to substantive issues (and I have many that I want to post), but between my day job and trying to swat down the spam, I have not have time to spend the time that I want to on substantive issues. I am hopeful that a small fee for posting for new members will help support the site (while crushing the spam issue) and will allow me to spend more time on what I want to- engaging with members and making the site better).

Now, here is a caveat- if the $1/mo, for six months for new members is a hardship, send me an email to contact@pebforum, and I will very likely waive the fee. The point is not to keep those with need to participate with the site or to post out because of $....I want to get rid of spam, build more support for this site, but do not, in any way, want to turn anyone away because of money. If the $1/mo for six months is a burden, or if there are problems with being able to pay, let me know and I am near certainly going to waive any "fee." My thought is that spammers will never pay and that my time spent dealing with waivers will be much less (tonight, I had to knock down 276 spammers- I figure, I am better equipped to handle a few waiver requests per month as compared to thousands of spammers accounts per month).

This should not impact the ability to read posts or to download resources for folks who do not want actually want to post. This should continue as before.

Note, that once you have been a member of the site for more than 6 months (whether you post or not), you should not be hit with any fees at all. The new "policy" should only apply to new members. But, there may be bugs to be worked out, so, if you are already a member, please let me know if you are hit for a request for a donation. Previous members should not be hit with this request for a donation (or fee). I may or may not, in the future consider asking for a $1/mo support fee- I am not there yet and want to see how things work out on the spam side as well as the features and costs for upgrading the site that may be available; as a baseline, though, my hope is that the roughly $6 per new member that I think should likely apply will be enough to help us improve the site. I am not thinking that a "profit" will be result.

I may or may not continue with this "idea" for a fee for new members who want to post (everyone should be able to read posts and download resources). If this is not so, please let me know via the [email protected] address.

I am also amenable to hearing if or why folks think this is a bad idea. The point of this site is not to hear myself- it is for those who need help. Unfortunately, over the last six months or so, I have found my goals stymied by time spent addressing spam and a lack of money to make the site better as I envisioned. If this is a bad idea or if anyone has a better solution addressing the points and goals I have raised, please let me know. Again, please let me know your thoughts!!!

Thanks again for your support and input into the site!!
 
Jason,

First and foremost, thank you for providing this site. It provides a great service to service members who are or are potentially subject to the MEB or PEB processes.

Second, spam is a problem for you and all bulletin board operators.

Third, a small fee is nothing to some and everything to others.

Fourth, some bulletin board software packages allow for challenge questions. There are challenge questions that most military members and family members would know and spammers would not take the time to look up. I have a board for a small interest group and had spam galore until challenge questions were added.

So many people have been helped, many of them would have been taken advantage of without your board. Time will tell if your idea, based on new membership rates, works or not. Again, thank you for operating this site.
 
Not sure if the CMS you use for the site will support a complex login. Maybe, 2 step verification, or something similar.
 
Fighting spam is a noble goal. $6 is worth it just to preserve the usefulness of the search function. The spammers seem to be in an all out effort to create crappy search results. There is such a wealth of knowledge from the years this forum has operated. Knowledge that is virtually unobtainable elsewhere. There is nowhere else I know of that you can go to find out what happened to other people so you have some insight into WTF is going on with your case. Every case is so anecdotal that you simply have to seek the aggregate information. If you're restricted to in-person resources its almost impossible to find something as basic as a list of regulations that apply and misinformation abounds.

Your willingness to review requests to waive the fee is going far beyond what should be expected of you. You'll never get rich off the $6 and if it provides a tiny side income, you deserve it. I wonder if any issue/concern is really that important if they are not willing to spend that much to get it addressed. Maybe that's just because I hate all the timeline questions and I'm a grumpy arse.

That said, I'm a bit uncertain if I would have registered if it cost $6. Part of me thinks I might have registered sooner and posted more questions, as I'd be expecting a real response if I provided real money. Some posts are never answered, and that kinda sucks if you're paying money to post. I'd be more concerned with refunding people who didn't get their $6 worth because their issue proves more complex than what us forum trolls can handle.
 
I have gone back and forth on this. Nothing like a decisive leader (lol). I am not sure if I will stick with it and my biggest worry is putting people off or making folks not want to join. On the other hand, I cannot say how happy I am that today there have been zero spammers!

There are various log in options I could use (and, yes, there is challenge questions options). I already had an anti-spam database check implemented (but, that only moved spammers to a moderation queue, which took about 30 seconds to both manually ban and remove posts, so it was not a time saver). I have, in the past, had problems with upping the registration requirements (either people did not understand or could not pull it off; if it was too easy, spammers got by it, too hard, people ended up writing a bunch of emails requesting help and it took a bunch of time- same thing happened when I had implemented account verification via email; about 20% of people ended up writing that they never received their verification email so, would have to resent and/or manually validate the account.

The software is be developed with a new branch release upcoming soon (from 1.x, to 2.0). So, maybe they will have some further upgrades (automating the anti-spam steps would be key....does a good job with catching spammers- believe it or not, probably only 5 % get through and post things.....it is dealing with them PLUS the 95% that go to moderation and need to manually be checked and rejected that is the time suck.

Think I will see how it goes after a week, see if others have feedback and take it from there.
 
I probably would have joined at 6$. There is good information here. And yes, I have noticed a few spam accounts, especially at night. Spammers, bots, robo dialers... all SUCK
 
Grrrr......somehow, a spammer got through today and posted something without having to donate. Granted, one is a lot better than a hundred, but it may be that I need to change things up. I will be looking into challenge question on registration and see if that is a better/viable solution. I know that nothing will be foolproof, but, also, if it was "beatable" once, it may mean there is a way around the sign-up measures. We'll see how it goes.
 
Jason Perry said:
Grrrr......somehow, a spammer got through today and posted something without having to donate. Granted, one is a lot better than a hundred, but it may be that I need to change things up. I will be looking into challenge question on registration and see if that is a better/viable solution. I know that nothing will be foolproof, but, also, if it was "beatable" once, it may mean there is a way around the sign-up measures. We'll see how it goes.
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Part of the contributing issue, might be the protocol we all use to connect to the site. Using "http," is a hacker/spammers dream, as they don't have to work that hard to circumvent the UACs that are in place. Every thing is practically in plain text for them to read. I would highly suggest that you consider switching over to a secure protocol, using certificates, through "https," which would encrypt all communications, end to end.

Plug-ins also exist, which allow an individual to turn off or on certain features of a website. So, if the code is not checking for explicit input, a user may be able to bypass that feature. Call it a bug or exploit, in the software.
 
AvnSgt said:
Part of the contributing issue, might be the protocol we all use to connect to the site. Using "http," is a hacker/spammers dream, as they don't have to work that hard to circumvent the UACs that are in place. Every thing is practically in plain text for them to read. I would highly suggest that you consider switching over to a secure protocol, using certificates, through "https," which would encrypt all communications, end to end.

Plug-ins also exist, which allow an individual to turn off or on certain features of a website. So, if the code is not checking for explicit input, a user may be able to bypass that feature. Call it a bug or exploit, in the software.
Click to expand...

Will take a look at this....I tried to implement that before (but that was like 3 years ago) and a ton of folks had problems logging in....might have been result of earlier versions of browsers not "liking" that protocol back in the day. I think that if I were really hot wheels on the tech side, I would set up two copies/versions of the site and see how things works out....but, I am not that tech savvy to pull that off.....I can try it and if it "fails" then I can always revert (or rollback to a version of the site backed up a day or so earlier).

Thanks for the pointer/input!
 
Jason Perry said:
Will take a look at this....I tried to implement that before (but that was like 3 years ago) and a ton of folks had problems logging in....might have been result of earlier versions of browsers not "liking" that protocol back in the day. I think that if I were really hot wheels on the tech side, I would set up two copies/versions of the site and see how things works out....but, I am not that tech savvy to pull that off.....I can try it and if it "fails" then I can always revert (or rollback to a version of the site backed up a day or so earlier).

Thanks for the pointer/input!
Click to expand...

I know a veteran that is tech savvy and has plenty of free time. If you need assistance just PM me and I can see if he is willing to look at the issue. Trying to get my dad to connect to more people, even if it is through the computer.
 
Jason Perry said:
Will take a look at this....I tried to implement that before (but that was like 3 years ago) and a ton of folks had problems logging in....might have been result of earlier versions of browsers not "liking" that protocol back in the day. I think that if I were really hot wheels on the tech side, I would set up two copies/versions of the site and see how things works out....but, I am not that tech savvy to pull that off.....I can try it and if it "fails" then I can always revert (or rollback to a version of the site backed up a day or so earlier).

Thanks for the pointer/input!
Click to expand...

You are welcome Jason. I am willing to help out anyway I can. Now if only, I can get myself sorted with this whole SSDI mess. :(
 
Well, it has been about a month or so since I have implemented this "idea."

I have mixed feelings still.

On the positive, I think I have only had to deal with 4 or 5 cases of "super-spammer/spam ninjas" who have somehow gotten through my idea of requiring payment before posting. So, the overall effect has been good on the spam front.

On the negative, I have dealt with two or three folks who have registered, paid, and then almost immediately cancelled recurring payment. This is bizarre/weird to me. Makes me probably more upset than I should be on principle, because only thing I can think is that these couple of folks are trying to avoid paying $6...

The point was two-fold= get rid of spammers and to generate some payments to help the site advance.

On that point...as far as payments received, what the site (or I) get is actually $.67 based on paypal rules. I was not hoping for some huge payout or enough to put my kids through college. I was hoping for a volume of folks "donating" (but, really not donating, because it would be paying for ability to post earlier than otherwise) that would serve both purposes....killing spam and getting a steady payment stream enough to help offset my out of pocket costs.

I have seen a bit of a hassle dealing with PayPal about all of this. (Recurring payments seem to trigger more interest/ issues with PayPal than the previous donations).

So, I am not sure I will continue this "idea." Before long, I will be updating to the newest version of the software running this forum. They say there will be some additional "anti-spam" measures available. There will be no additional cost for this than that I have already incurred (based on the generous donations from folks on the forum).

Standby for more....
 
Did new enrollment rates change with the new fee process?
 
What about the possibility of ad revenue to help offset some of the costs? Although, I am not sure if you receive enough traffic to make it worth the hassle.

Furthermore, I would be more than willing to donate funds, but this is predicated on my ability to resolve this SSDI case. The 3rd ALJ hearing, is the charm. :D
 
chaplaincharlie said:
Did new enrollment rates change with the new fee process?
Click to expand...
Not sure...I assume they did, but, I don't have any sort of Google Analytics set up to track that (and, since I did not have that earlier, would have nothing to compare it to).

AvnSgt said:
What about the possibility of ad revenue to help offset some of the costs? Although, I am not sure if you receive enough traffic to make it worth the hassle. Furthermore, I would be more than willing to donate funds, but this is predicated on my ability to resolve this SSDI case. The 3rd ALJ hearing, is the charm. :D
Click to expand...

Have Google Adsense going....it is seeming to generate about $75-80 a month. (With the new software, one of the add-ins dropped the donation plug in, so, I don't have that up any more- I think I will need to get a HTML PayPal plug in to get that going again; not that it is a huge revenue generator, but, it is helpful).

I appreciate the thought/offer. No need to donate... the thought is appreciated. You contribute a lot with your posts and helping people.

I am fairly confident I could do some things to up the "revenue." However, likely the trade offs would not be worth it. I liked the idea of it helping with keeping spammers out while also helping with funding some improvements. There is/has been a hassle factor that I have alluded to, so, we will see if I keep this as a measure. I am tending to think that I may not. (Revenue has been something like $12-15 so far....but, with one none of the recurring having happened yet, seems to me it would end up being $75-100/mo when a few months of recurring get included. That is not bad and definitely appreciated. But, not much more effective than just having the donate via PayPal up and running). The good news is that I have received enough to pay for domain/hosting/software upgrade and some other improvements, so, absent upgrading further the hosting, doing some template tweaking, or buying several other add-ons, we are in good shape for about a year. Like anything, you can always go "bigger/better" with tech stuff, but, that is not needed. I only get to work on the site on the tech/admin time as time permits, so I likely won't be really looking at much for a few weeks.
 
Recently, I was asked how to upgrade your account for new members.

Here are the steps to upgrade:

Go to your own profile and click on "Account Upgrades."

Step 1.png


Then, the second step is to click on the New Member- Subscribe button. Follow the link, fill in your payment info, and you are done. (Note, if the payment of $1/mo for 6 months is a burden/challenge or if you cannot pay for it, contact me - contact@pebforum - and I will likely waive the fee).

Step 2.png


Hope this helps! Thanks for your support and contributions to PEB FORUM!!!
 
I am not particularly enthused about the "upgrade option" as a method to support the PEB Forum....the "income" has been nominal and seems to be within no better or worse than other methods of support. I am very pleased on the effect on spam....went from 100-800 spam-tastic posts and registrations per week (which took me about 1-3 hours per week cleaning up) to a handful only.

I still have two concerns (at least). One is discouraging folks from posting based on the "fee." Second is that some folks have no idea how to even "upgrade" in the first place. Had a call earlier yesterday from a Marine who had questions and I spoke to him at length about his case. I suggested he post on the forums (that is how he found me, from this site) to get some input (he did not need legal representation at this time and I was not inclined to try to "sell him" on potentially unneeded services). One thing he mentioned was confusion about whether he needed to pay $50 for a full subscription or only $1/mo x 6 months. I hate this piece of this issue....the point is that a tiny level of support will allow folks who are new member to post. The $50 upgrade is for those who want to specifically support us at a higher level.

Look, the point is not to make money off this site. Really, it is to "kill" spam and as an ancillary point, to support the forums. I am always ready and available to try to help folks.

Dunno if I am complaining or just pointing out facts. Just want folks to get what the point of this site is....I think to date, based on new members signing up to pay $1/mo for six months, I think we have garnered less than $50. (And, as I have stated before, if there is a pain or issue with paying, if someone contacts me, I will almost certainly waive any fee). (I will post a bit about this- if I have time- about why the economics of most of this process works to the detriment of members).
 
I was not aware of the reasons for the fee. I think it's great! I've looked at this forum for years and am just now deciding to post. I figure it's well worth 1$ a month, and I'd pay more, to have my questions answers by a group of knowledgable and experienced individuals that include some lawyers. Even if the it's just during the process of my board. Especially since I probably can't afford the other fees. LOL! Thanks for your time and professionalism.
 
With the new upgrade to the forum software, I am (at least temporarily, depending on how things go) suspending the $1 charge to get immediate Regular Member privileges.

I have enabled Google's reCAPTCHA (a new feature) which I am hoping will maintain the spam protection that worked so well with the upgrade fee option. If the spam comes back in force, I may re-evaluate. We will see how things go!

I still have left in place the ability for folks to pay/donate the $1, if they like. The only difference is that now, there is no change in the user permissions.

I thank everyone who did donate! It really helps to maintain the forums and to offer improvements.

Will update this thread as things develop.
 
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