SI Dysfunction

nlaw37

nlaw37

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I was diagnosed a year ago with a severe SI Dysfunction. This does not show up on anything, some doctors say. Others say I am fine. Has anyone else been told they have this? And if so, what are treatment plans (provided by the Army). I am starting the MEB process under chronic LBP. I am just curious to see what others have to say about the SI Dysfunction.
 
I was just told today that my LBP was actually SI pain. I'm not sure what the actual diagnosis will be called. The doctor gave me some stretches to do and I am going to have accupuncture next month. I feel ya with the doctors telling you nothing was wrong and you're OK. I went for 4 years being told there was no explanation for your symptoms therefore you must not have anything really wrong with you! I was so happy today when the physical med doctor told me today that I wasn't crazy and I had a real problem!! Good Luck with yours!!
 
Chem_SM- It is really frustrating to have someone tell you nothing is wrong with you. I just got all my MEB/PEB ppwk and realized that my one PCM (the one who referred me to the MEB) wrote "secondary agenda possible". I was like you have to be kidding me. It actually got circled by the doc before the PEB saw it. That frustrated me heavily, especially because this "PA" (not even a doctor) tells a lot of soldiers they are faking, or nothing is really wrong. I have put in a complaint several times, and so have others. I do not think these complaints are being sent up high enough. The thing that gets me is the fact that I have been diagnosed with problems before I even saw him, and he says nothing is wrong with me? Bad move. My platoon sergeant told me I should send a letter out to some congressman so that he loses his commision. I do not think that is right, but something needs to be done to this PA. It is not fair to soldiers who are hurting for real.

Thanks for your feedback though. Finally another person with an SI Dys. Not that it is a good thing though SM. Good luck and keep me posted on things that work for you please. I am leaving active duty Aug 18th and will need all the help I can get, so that I may take some info to the docs at the VA in Penn. Good day SM.
 
Just curious,

Did you both( nlaw/chem) get MRI's and full work up's to confirm there is nothing significantly "wrong" in your lumbar or sacral segments? I do know your SI pain is significant-I just mean other disc or nerve injury?

Did phys therapy give you sacral belts /SI belts to wear to keep your joints more secure?

I truly believe that if you went to 4 different doctors for LBP or SI Dysfunction/Piriformis Syndrome or whatever, you would get different answers from all of them...they seriously guess by one's symptoms. If its not black and white on an xray or MRI, then they have no clue-and honestly-even xray's and MRI's don't show everything and then they are back to guessing based on their knowledge and view point on low back pain syndromes.

Best of Luck to you both, and I know I don't know you-but I'm sure your pain is REAL and its not just in your heads! Stay confident and as you go through your MEB's.

By the way, chem, you said you were going to acupuncture tx-good for you!!! Is this at the base or are you going on your own?

Again, best of luck to you both.
 
Chinook. I can not speak for Chem_SM, but I have had the works I think. There are damages to my "endplates", and I have a bulging disc at L1-L2. L4-L5 vertebrates are said to be "slipping" away. They have not done much as far as treatments go. I don't know about any of you all but over the past year it has been strictly Motrin and physical therapy. Horrible. Now, they MEB me on 3 June and send me to an off post CIV pain clinic then. Now I am leaving the Army Aug 18 for good. I was actually getting somewhere with my pain doc-they were talking about at least fixing that bulging disc (YAY a civilian will do it). I was happy, but I do not see that happening now that they rushed my orders in here like that on me. LOL! I was shocked.

But back on point - they really did not give me much to help with the pain as far as meds, belts, etc. That's why I am honestly suprised they did not hold on the PEB process to make me try some things first, like a small surgery or six months chiropractic or acupuncture, ITLL DRIVE YOU CRAZY SOMETIMES.
 
nlaw,

It drives me crazy all the time;).

I think that in the regs somewhere it says that they have to try some things...I know that acupuncture, chiro isn't included in the regs as of yet, but for sure the rounds of injections with adequate time to see if it makes a difference, if surgery is an option then I believe that would be reasonable, just rest!!! You know, a lot of times just a short bout of con leave gives the body enough time to rest the inflamed areas and the pain can lessen. It doesn't necessarily heal the issues, but a lot of times, those issues will calm down and the member can become asymptomatic for a period of time again.

So are "they" making you get out or is that your scheduled time to leave service? And, I'm sorry I didn't see how long has this been going on for you?

By the way, not that a lot could be done for me, but I LOVED my off base pain doc. He was instrumental in so much!

You know, we could look into this further to see if you should be able to get the surgery before you get out....if you believe and they say that it would help your pain and function, it might be worth doing.
Jason and the moderators would know that answer....

I'm sorry I wasnt' following your case earlier-I'm overwhelemed at home right now and just getting to check in here and there....what is your desire? If you were not in pain, would you choose to stay in the military and continue service, or to get out and move on?
 
Chinook-If I were to be fixed, and not deal with pain I would stay in. This would only be if the doctors on post figured this stuff out and did not look at this as "faking" like some did. That was what made me so miserable and "depressed" at times. I say "depressed" because it was not a deep state of depression. Anyways, yes, if the docs would have taken care of me I would have stayed in.
Unfortunately, I am on my way out, and hopefully I can put my trust in the PA or NY VAs. I say that because I am not 100% on where I am going to be living and working right away so I may end up in NY. I do not know.
The injections have not worked and actually have made me a little more stiff (with ROMs). I have not tried acupuncture and was told that chiropractor would not work since it is mainly nerves now. When I get some money saved up I will pay out of pocket for the acupuncture I think, to at least try it.
As far as the surgery goes, I do not see them allowing me to stay in until that happens. I think my off post pain clinic will put in a consult for the neurosurgeon back in PA. I love my off post pain clinic too, they are doing whatever they can to comfort me and try to find the problem. Unfortunately. I had that one episode where they were overdosing me on Topamax. Which since has messed with my head a little. They apologized for it, but I am still a little upset about it.
To answer your other questions: The Army has me scheduled to leave Fort Hood on the 19th of August and I have been dealing with these pains for a year and a half. Which for some is a short time, but for me an eternity. I am sure it is not the end of it either though. I look forward to a day of being pain free. Nice talking with you. How long have your pains been going on? I assume you have the same issues or are they separate diff issues?
Hope all is well though.
 
I just got all my MEB/PEB ppwk and realized that my one PCM (the one who referred me to the MEB) wrote "secondary agenda possible". I was like you have to be kidding me. It actually got circled by the doc before the PEB saw it. That frustrated me heavily, especially because this "PA" (not even a doctor) tells a lot of soldiers they are faking, or nothing is really wrong. I have put in a complaint several times, and so have others.
Click to expand...

I was just reading over this post and wanted to comment. I agree with the notion that the behavior of this particular PA is unacceptable. I am curious as to what document you noticed this remark on.

I am presuming that this comment was not on your NARSUM as your PA is not the individual responsible for dictating the Narrative Summary. What really drives my curiosity is how the doctor who did dictate your NARSUM simply overlooked this PA's remark without mentioning anything to you. I am sure you read over your NARSUM and would have noticed any mention of a 'secondary agenda'.

While none of us can 'enter' the minds of PEB members, I hold faith in the fact that the PEB is guided by the NARSUM and objective medical evidence. As a matter of speculation, I would conclude that the PEB did not take into account the extraneous baffling of this PA insofar as you may have had a 'secondary agenda'. Thus, if you did receive a rating from the PEB that you believe was unfair due to this PA's comment - I would not worry.

Further, I believe (at least in the Army) that getting the right PA to handle MEBs is somewhat of a 'luck of the draw' situation. Unfortunately in your case you had an overzealous PA acting as the gatekeeper to a MEB. Not only does this PA need to understand he/she is not the sole authority on initiating MEBs, but also that their main concern is (in reality, should be) the welfare of Soldiers. If a Soldier cannot perform his/her duties due to any kind of medical condition then, IMHO, that soldier should be sent to a MMRB (if the condition is not clearly unfitting IAW AR 40-501) if not a MEB for immediate adjudication.

The system is there to protect and balance the best interests of the government and the servicemember.

But anyway, I'm sorry to hear of how your case was handled. If you have not done so already, I advise going to the Fort Hood local VA office and initiating a claim under the 'Quick Start' program immediately. One problem is since you are unsure of where you are going, the VA cannot process the claim. Once you are sure of your living arrangements, file the VA claim and get in the system immediately! Good luck.
 
hello again nlaw,

I'm sorry to hear that your case has gone the way it has and that you are in so much pain still. carnelli makes great points about getting things going through the VA. I was told I had to wait until I had my DD214, but I have read that EVERYONE has been able to at least get the ball rolling...so do that, it will help you in the long run.

Yes, my suffering is similar to yours. There is pain everyday but sometimes it’s better and sometimes not so much . Chronic pain is very stressful and yes I've had my ins and outs of being "depressed". But I always see the glass half full and I believe that something good comes from everything. My new mission is to make acupuncture available through TRICARE-with EVERYONE'S help of course.... My life is different and my future will be anything I want to make of it....but, in the beginning when I was first injured and didn't have a clue what was going on...and being in the "acute" stage of this....I didn't have so much direction...I was to the point where I would have to literally crawl from my bed to the bath and back. I had one friend who would drive me for the injections, but one day when I had blood vessels popping over my leg and my foot was numb (1st time), there was NO one to help and I drove myself to the ER. Makes me laugh and sick to my stomach at the same time. I guess having good days and bad days are normal...as long as you still have more good than bad .
As for how long I've been in pain-the onset of my pain was Dec 06 and it started in my thigh. It took another 4 months for the pain to reach my back and it hit me like a ton of bricks! Not one day has gone by since Dec 06 that I have been pain free. Oh, and the thigh pain comes from L5 root pain....not many doc's know that-had to find the right one. Acupuncture has made my life comfortable. I haven't been able to afford to go for the last couple months and I'm going downhill quickly. It’s kind of like I can’t afford not to go-but I like having a roof over my head too. I wish I could explain just how much it has helped me....each person needs to find out what helps them.

You are going through the toughest part right now, a little bit of the unknown....once you get a little further through it and get back "home" whether it’s PA or NY and you get through the VA part of things, you will feel a ton of relief and you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. Sorry to have gone on & on. I just really wish you the best of health and happiness in your future!
 
First off, I would like to say thanks Chinook and Carnelli. I have had lots of luck and wanted to help since I have been told of this site. I love it here and I did get deterred there after an individual "jumped" on me for not being in as long as others; but I have returned and want to help. I think I want to try to finish up my education and see about getting a job within the VA or some sort of it so that I may help; especially since I did not get to fulfill my contract.

On another note, I have to say that since my back did its thing last March, I have been like you Chinook - in pain everyday. It is horrible. But I, like you, try to make the best out of these situations.

Carnelli - As far as my NARSUM and the PA goes, you are right. It was not in my NARSUM, which WAS written by a different doctor. I do not know how I overlooked the extra paper in my packet when I signed my paperwork to be sent down to the PEB, but it was in there with that PA's note of the "second agenda". Frustrating, but like you said, moving on with the VA is essential and I have started that today.

I recieved my medical records (both on post and off) made copies and even put them on a CD and made a copy of the CD. LOL. *Alot of people have told me to make sure I get copies and so on* The VA was great. The rep looked through my records and saw that there was an issue with the PCM or PA I had been seeing before I get sent to the MEB clinic. He said "This guy has screwed you!" I agreed, but he knew and saw other notes that disproved the PA, so that was nice. This VA rep was really helpful and made me feel 10 times better. I was also able to do this because I am using a friend's address who is a member of the NG and retiring soon. So, they told me everything will be better and to plan on the week of me getting home to be getting seen for a mental and physical exam. This rep listed about 10 things on my claim form and said NOT TO WORRY.
So, THANKS to you all for the support and hope all is well for you all. IF I can help in anyway let me know. I will continue to post with updates and other things even after I am discharged, at least until Jason kicks me out. LOL. JK!

Nick Lawless
 
Nick,

I am really glad that we have been helpful. As far as you getting kicked out of here, don't count on it! Now you have some experience with the military and VA disability systems and will continue to deal with these issues. With that, you are in tahe position to help others. Doing so will make you feel great, so keep coming back and offering your experiences. And remember to refer people here!
 
Hey there nlaw, we meet again! It took me 4 or 5 years to get a diagnosis! I have been to numerous doctors. I have had a bunch of Xrays and 2 MRI's. They never went low enough on either to show anything going on. I have a small disc bulge between L4-L5 but "nothing that would explain my symptoms". The Physical Med doctor told me the other day that you wouldn't see anything on any of those films because they didn't go low enough. My issue is down on the top of my butt and my hips. She actually knew what she was talking about. She told me that the accupuncture might be helpful. There is a muscle in there that stays inflammed and puts pressure on my sciatica which causes the burning down to my foot and all that puts pressure on another small muscle with really long tendons that causes it to burn on my hip and down toward my knee. The way she showed me on the diagram was exactly how it hurt!

nlaw- I would ask what was meant by "secondary agenda possible". That PA had absolutely no right to insinuate that you were malingering or something. That could have hurt your PEB outcome. What all did you get rated for if you don't mind me asking?
 
Jason - Once again, thank you for your encouragement. To be quite honest with you, I wish I would have had your representation. Unfortunately, I did not and I have a feeling my PEBLO did a lot of lying, especially with me being on medication that was messing with my head pretty bad. But I will discuss that in another post more than likely.

Chem_SM - I do have that feeling that it did hurt my PEB outcome a little. I was actually really ticked once I read that; like I wanted to punch this guy out, but I kept my bearing and I am just going to make sure everyone that has had a problem with this PA files a complaint. There are at least 20 soldiers I know who feel this PA is not giving correct treatment. It's quite funny how everyone has tendonitis in their backs or knees. Not really! The board only rated me for my back issue. Which I kept asking why they would not rate the leg pain associated with the back issues. Everyone said because of the fact that it was directly linked to the back. Plus, I was told, that leg pain is not a disqualifying condition. I don't know! I was heavily medicated and feel as if my PEBLO was trying to break the record of quickest time out; now that I look back on things. I wish I would have brought my squad leader in with me each time I visited or someone that would know the MEB/PEB system and be able to help with my thought processes at the PEBLO office. I would not say I am mentally incapacitated, but at the time of me signing and speaking with my PEBLO I feel like I may have been a little (due to my pain clinic admitting to overdosing me on Topamax).

Overall, I really need to try the acupuncture it sounds like. I told my wife we need to start saving for at least a couple visits back home for some relief. Thanks Chem. I am loving these discussions though and keep them coming. I want to help all that I can. Chem, do you mind me asking what your rank is? I know we discussed that you were not a SM, just wondering what you are then?:D
 
I'm a SPC not SM... never even crossed my mind when I made the screen name!! HAHA I know what you mean about the PEBLO ordeal. Mine hasn't necessarily lied to me but she hasn't gone out of her way to explain things to me. I have found that you can't rely on anyone but yourself with this MEB stuff. My PEBLO has given me some helpful hints but I also feel that she has left me hanging too! I can't help but think that if I were a PEBLO I would do my best to ensure that my soldiers knew and understood what was going on. I have learned a lot from my experience and have infact helped others do a little research! One thing I have learn in the Army is that if you want to get something done then find a regulation that states what you want and then they don't have much choice but to give you what you are asking for! That is the attitude that I have gone with now that I have experienced first hand how they just want to shuffle you through the MEB system. I have at least 4 MEBable issues. 1. My Knee (torn ACL, LCL, PLC) 2. My Back 3. Migraines 4. Plantar Fasciatis
I was sent to the MEB because of my knee 2 years ago and because of needing another surgery my MEB was stopped and then restarted this Feb. At 1st the MEB only found my knee "medically unacceptable" and I agreed because I was told they found your knee unacceptable do you concur...well to say the least it went to the PEB and I was rated at 10% within 2 days. I knew that just didn't seem right. I knew that I had other issues and that is when I started doing some serious homework. I found this website and was given the best advice yet! I appealed the PEB findings, spoke to Jason on the phone and wrote about my issue. A man named Mike read my situation and FWD my posting to the Commander of the PDA. My case was pulled as soon as that CDR read about it. Now I'm being re-evaluated and they are doing the same thing only this time they have added my back. It is now medically unacceptable. They keep telling me that my migraines are OK and that they don't bother me. I am now going to see a neurologist. I hope this doctor has better since than these other ones! You can't tell me that 5 different medications that don't work is medically acceptable! I am just going to keep appealing until they do their job completely!! UGH!!!

Wow, I really rambled!! What is the name of the PA? Was it the PA that is at the MEB clinic?

~Chem_SM
 
The PA I am referring to is one from Hood Airfield. He was horrible and honestly, not a minute goes by I do not want to curse him out - but he is a CPT, and I would never lose my bearing. Well, I don't know. On the other hand, the doctors or PAs I have seen (before being sent to an off-post pain clinic in Round Rock) at the MEB clinic were helpful. I did not like my Part II doctor for many reasons, but heard there is a female LtCol that helps the soldier out quite a bit. Do not know how much truth is to that, since I got LtCol Chitwood (tall male doc/PA).

Anyway, yes, your case sounds familiar with many. I'll admit I was stupid, but have been told I still may be able to fight it, just may take awhile. So, we'll see. I wish you luck once again, and if you need help with anything, let me know.
 
My JAG down in San Antonio told me that if your VA claim is really high and your MEB claim is only 10% that you can still appeal things. I'm not 100% sure how that works but it's worth looking into if that is your case.
 
Yea, I thought I heard something about this. Someone told me if the VA rates your condition, on which was found Medically Unfit by the Army, higher than 30% they automatically appeal. ??? Maybe Jason has some insight on that???
 
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