What to expect?

Poodlesnotdoodles

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Today the orthopedic doctor said he is putting me in for a P3 profile and recommending referral to IDES. He told me I need to make an appointment with my PCM (soonest is 3 weeks out) because that is who ultimately submits my documents to start the process. What should I expect moving forward?

My duty station is Fort Gregg-Adams (formerly Fort Lee)

Condition is multiple disc herniations in the lumbar spine, one compressing the L5-S1 nerve root causing radiculopathy in my left foot along with foot drop. Episodes of debilitating back pain causing hospital visits, and weeks of bed rest. Went through PT, multiple injections, and referred to a surgeon. I elected to not have the surgery (discectomy)because I am still young, and there is a high chance of having another surgery down the line. Orthopedic doctor agrees with my decision and put in for the P3.
 
Today the orthopedic doctor said he is putting me in for a P3 profile and recommending referral to IDES. He told me I need to make an appointment with my PCM (soonest is 3 weeks out) because that is who ultimately submits my documents to start the process. What should I expect moving forward?

My duty station is Fort Gregg-Adams (formerly Fort Lee)

Condition is multiple disc herniations in the lumbar spine, one compressing the L5-S1 nerve root causing radiculopathy in my left foot along with foot drop. Episodes of debilitating back pain causing hospital visits, and weeks of bed rest. Went through PT, multiple injections, and referred to a surgeon. I elected to not have the surgery (discectomy)because I am still young, and there is a high chance of having another surgery down the line. Orthopedic doctor agrees with my decision and put in for the P3.
Are you Active Duty? Army I assume? How long have you been in? Rank? The process is the same for everyone in the Army for IDES but that information helps in giving you the proper advice.
 
Are you Active Duty? Army I assume? How long have you been in? Rank? The process is the same for everyone in the Army for IDES but that information helps in giving you the proper advice.
Active duty Army, been in for 11 years. SSG, on the SFC promotion list, eligible to pin in October
 
Legacy retirement
Okay. So you need to look at your conditions and then find the corresponding VA disability conditions that you believe cause you to not do your job. See what your symptoms are and where that puts you regarding ratings. You are over halfway to getting a pension and now everything will hinge on the % of disability given by the Army. The Army determines what conditions are unfitting and count towards the ratings totals. The VA rates those conditions. The total if more than one condition is VA math. So for example if you had 2 conditions with 30% then the total DOD% would be 50% not 60%.

It sounds like you should have ratings for your back, leg and Radiculopathy. That would be 3 unfitting conditions. Once you have done your homework you want to make sure all of your medical is lined up. The reason for this is you will have a VA C&P exam as part of the process. You need to make sure to mention the symptoms from the C&P that correspond with your ratings. So getting a C&P sheet for each condition will help you to see what it looks like and to make sure you hit all the points.

Then be ready for the NARSUM which is the narrative summary of all of your health conditions. They will state whether the Army docs believe the condition (s) is unfitting or not. If anything isn't listed as unfitting or the information is incorrect you need to be prepared to do a rebuttal and or IMR (Independent Medical Review). The PEB will likely agree with whatever the NARSUM states and those results will be displayed on your DA199.

Then after that you will get a DA199 with the informal decision. If you accept you are locked in and the results are final assuming they find all of the condition static and not likely to change. If the condition is unstable they may put one or more of them on TDRL and you would have a rating but it could change in the future over a period of 3 years. Your conditions will probably be static though you never know.

From there if anything is wrong you can appeal. If a condition should be combat related or if a condition isn't unfitting but should be then you would request a FPEB (Formal Appeal for the PEB). For the Army your attorney can submit a written appeal in advance the FPEB hearing and the FPEB can decide to agree with you and make the changes without having the hearing or they will give some feedback which will help you to know where your case is weak and to prepare to shore up those areas before the hearing.

At the same time of requesting a FPEB you can request a VARR. This is when you challenge the rating that the VA did for an unfitting condition. This be done alone or in conjunction with FPEB. For example say everything is correct on what is unfitting but you think you should be 30% and the VA rated that condition as 10%. The VARR is the submission to try to get that changed. The FPEB can't change ratings for conditions so appealing via a FPEB would not help you.

You will have an assigned PEBLO which will be a paper pusher. They are not knowledgable about the process as a whole or how different results can have life altering outcomes afterwards so DO NOT TAKE THEIR ADVICE as they are not your representative. They just process the paperwork and move your case along until you get out or are found fit for duty. You will get free assigned legal from JAG. They are very knowledgable but they are overworked similar to a public defender. They may only be able to talk to you a day or 2 before your hearing. They have dozens of clients all with tight deadline so they can not provide a lot of time on your case. Everything is hurry up and wait. You wait weeks or months then you get a document like the NARSUM or IPEB and then all of the sudden you have to respond within 7 business days. That is very stressful.

My final advice. Hire a dedicated private attorney. This will ensure the best outcome and if you hire one from the start they can help you shape your case to get the best result. On top of that you have a resource to help you to be proactive and work on medical or any other documentation needed so that when an appeal happens you have what you need. Then your attorney will do all the work on the appeal to then give to your PEBLO. Side benefit that can't be understated: There is way less stress! The whole process is very stressful and you have a lot on the line. There are more cases than I can count where 2 Soldiers had similar circumstance with very different outcomes. DON'T TRUST THE PROCESS. Those who Hire professional representation that specializes only in IDES have a huge advantage. You need to stay the course to ensure you get all that you deserve. Most Soldiers that get poor results just accept them because they are tire of fighting the system and just want to get out. My wife stayed in an extra 6 months while her attorney appealed at every turn to include a FPEB and a VARR but now that she is medically retired with tax exempt income due to the combat related designation and having maxed out her chapter 61 pension. It was worth it. Most likely your medical issues will still be there when you get out so things like health care from Tricare and compensation are a huge help while navigating through the transition from being a Soldier to a civilian. For some reason I thought my wife would get better with more options and freedom after she medically retired but that wasn't the case. She still suffers but with her medical retirement and SSDI we don't have to worry about health insurance or finances as much.
 
Okay. So you need to look at your conditions and then find the corresponding VA disability conditions that you believe cause you to not do your job. See what your symptoms are and where that puts you regarding ratings. You are over halfway to getting a pension and now everything will hinge on the % of disability given by the Army. The Army determines what conditions are unfitting and count towards the ratings totals. The VA rates those conditions. The total if more than one condition is VA math. So for example if you had 2 conditions with 30% then the total DOD% would be 50% not 60%.

It sounds like you should have ratings for your back, leg and Radiculopathy. That would be 3 unfitting conditions. Once you have done your homework you want to make sure all of your medical is lined up. The reason for this is you will have a VA C&P exam as part of the process. You need to make sure to mention the symptoms from the C&P that correspond with your ratings. So getting a C&P sheet for each condition will help you to see what it looks like and to make sure you hit all the points.

Then be ready for the NARSUM which is the narrative summary of all of your health conditions. They will state whether the Army docs believe the condition (s) is unfitting or not. If anything isn't listed as unfitting or the information is incorrect you need to be prepared to do a rebuttal and or IMR (Independent Medical Review). The PEB will likely agree with whatever the NARSUM states and those results will be displayed on your DA199.

Then after that you will get a DA199 with the informal decision. If you accept you are locked in and the results are final assuming they find all of the condition static and not likely to change. If the condition is unstable they may put one or more of them on TDRL and you would have a rating but it could change in the future over a period of 3 years. Your conditions will probably be static though you never know.

From there if anything is wrong you can appeal. If a condition should be combat related or if a condition isn't unfitting but should be then you would request a FPEB (Formal Appeal for the PEB). For the Army your attorney can submit a written appeal in advance the FPEB hearing and the FPEB can decide to agree with you and make the changes without having the hearing or they will give some feedback which will help you to know where your case is weak and to prepare to shore up those areas before the hearing.

At the same time of requesting a FPEB you can request a VARR. This is when you challenge the rating that the VA did for an unfitting condition. This be done alone or in conjunction with FPEB. For example say everything is correct on what is unfitting but you think you should be 30% and the VA rated that condition as 10%. The VARR is the submission to try to get that changed. The FPEB can't change ratings for conditions so appealing via a FPEB would not help you.

You will have an assigned PEBLO which will be a paper pusher. They are not knowledgable about the process as a whole or how different results can have life altering outcomes afterwards so DO NOT TAKE THEIR ADVICE as they are not your representative. They just process the paperwork and move your case along until you get out or are found fit for duty. You will get free assigned legal from JAG. They are very knowledgable but they are overworked similar to a public defender. They may only be able to talk to you a day or 2 before your hearing. They have dozens of clients all with tight deadline so they can not provide a lot of time on your case. Everything is hurry up and wait. You wait weeks or months then you get a document like the NARSUM or IPEB and then all of the sudden you have to respond within 7 business days. That is very stressful.

My final advice. Hire a dedicated private attorney. This will ensure the best outcome and if you hire one from the start they can help you shape your case to get the best result. On top of that you have a resource to help you to be proactive and work on medical or any other documentation needed so that when an appeal happens you have what you need. Then your attorney will do all the work on the appeal to then give to your PEBLO. Side benefit that can't be understated: There is way less stress! The whole process is very stressful and you have a lot on the line. There are more cases than I can count where 2 Soldiers had similar circumstance with very different outcomes. DON'T TRUST THE PROCESS. Those who Hire professional representation that specializes only in IDES have a huge advantage. You need to stay the course to ensure you get all that you deserve. Most Soldiers that get poor results just accept them because they are tire of fighting the system and just want to get out. My wife stayed in an extra 6 months while her attorney appealed at every turn to include a FPEB and a VARR but now that she is medically retired with tax exempt income due to the combat related designation and having maxed out her chapter 61 pension. It was worth it. Most likely your medical issues will still be there when you get out so things like health care from Tricare and compensation are a huge help while navigating through the transition from being a Soldier to a civilian. For some reason I thought my wife would get better with more options and freedom after she medically retired but that wasn't the case. She still suffers but with her medical retirement and SSDI we don't have to worry about health insurance or finances as much.
 
"You will have an assigned PEBLO which will be a paper pusher. They are not knowledgable about the process as a whole or how different results can have life altering outcomes afterwards so DO NOT TAKE THEIR ADVICE as they are not your representative."

What?? I wonder what your role or experience is? Of course some PEBLOs are better/worse than others.. just like any other profession. Saying not to listen to the PEBLO cause they don't know what they're talking about is ridiculous. Hire a private attorney?? What are you talking about? A private attorney can do nothing to alter the findings/disposition of the MEB/PEB. This would be a complete waste of the SMs money and is terrible advice. Anyway.. wow.
 
"You will have an assigned PEBLO which will be a paper pusher. They are not knowledgable about the process as a whole or how different results can have life altering outcomes afterwards so DO NOT TAKE THEIR ADVICE as they are not your representative."

What?? I wonder what your role or experience is? Of course some PEBLOs are better/worse than others.. just like any other profession. Saying not to listen to the PEBLO cause they don't know what they're talking about is ridiculous. Hire a private attorney?? What are you talking about? A private attorney can do nothing to alter the findings/disposition of the MEB/PEB. This would be a complete waste of the SMs money and is terrible advice. Anyway.. wow.
PEBLO's are not legal. They are paper pushers. They aren't supposed to give advice. That is why Soldiers are assigned a separate legal representative.
 
"You will have an assigned PEBLO which will be a paper pusher. They are not knowledgable about the process as a whole or how different results can have life altering outcomes afterwards so DO NOT TAKE THEIR ADVICE as they are not your representative."

What?? I wonder what your role or experience is? Of course some PEBLOs are better/worse than others.. just like any other profession. Saying not to listen to the PEBLO cause they don't know what they're talking about is ridiculous. Hire a private attorney?? What are you talking about? A private attorney can do nothing to alter the findings/disposition of the MEB/PEB. This would be a complete waste of the SMs money and is terrible advice. Anyway.. wow.
Also, you sound like my wife's PEBLO. The thought she was crazy for appealing with 80% DOD. If she had listened to the PEBLO instead of her private counsel she would have missed out on her pension being exempt from federal income taxes by challenging the combat related designation of one of her conditions. Then her PEBLO didn't understand why she requested a VARR when maxed out on DOD and got the combat related because most PEBLO's don't know anything outside of their lane. She did the VARR on an unfitting condition to bump up her total VA rating to 100% to qualify for additional funds via CRSC after she got out.
 
Are you a PEBLO??
No. Just gone through it myself and helped my wife go through it too. Trying to help Soldiers because I hear too many PEBLOS say trust the system and things like those are good results. PEBLO's aren't legal. Also if you think that outcomes are the same regardless of who your representation is I can't argue with you. There is no way to have a constructive conversation with someone who is ignorant on the subject matter.
 
Your experience is going through an MEB and watching your wife go through an MEB. I can assure you, my knowledge far outweighs yours. But anyway.. I'm new here and look forward to poking around the misinformation.
 
No. Just gone through it myself and helped my wife go through it too. Trying to help Soldiers because I hear too many PEBLOS say trust the system and things like those are good results. PEBLO's aren't legal. Also if you think that outcomes are the same regardless of who your representation is I can't argue with you. There is no way to have a constructive conversation with someone who is ignorant on the subject matter.

Your experience is going through an MEB and watching your wife go through an MEB. I can assure you, my knowledge far outweighs yours. But anyway.. I'm new here and look forward to poking around the misinformation.
I hate to agree that my experience with the process has been much better because of help on these boards and not from the people in charge. My PEBLO has made numerous mistakes on my paperwork but got mad at me because they screwed up and missed a deadline. Obviously the system is overwhelmed as it seems most govt systems are so having boards like this where we can help each other navigate through the process is needed. Had I not had guidance to keep my timeline in check I would have easily been a few months behind.
 
Your experience is going through an MEB and watching your wife go through an MEB. I can assure you, my knowledge far outweighs yours. But anyway.. I'm new here and look forward to poking around the misinformation.
I have done 4 years of intensive research. I've talked to hundreds of people going the process and talking to several attorneys both private and assigned IDES JAG. I have had a lot of experience trying to help Soldiers who's PEBLO gave them the wrong information and permanently screwed over Soldiers. Nothing official should be done without consulting JAG or private attorney.

Just a few weeks ago on this forum a Soldier had a career services person recommend COAR to a Reserve Soldier who had a LOD for an unfitting condition. The PEBLO gave them the packet and JAG wasn't involved. The Soldier been found unfit and were awarded with a chapter 61 retirement. By accepting the COAR they forfeited their results. They thought they would get to 20 active years but that is only for active duty and AGR. So instead of getting immediate retirement and Tricare they were allowed to drill one weekend a month for a year to hit their 20 good years. By doing this they earned a non regular retirement but forfeited their chapter 61 retirement resulting in loss of potential income and insurance for several years until they hit the age to apply for their non regular retirement.

I encourage you to read up here. This is one the best resources for Soldiers who are in this system. There are several differences between branches though so what happens for the Army for example won't be the same for the Air Force. Lastly, I would be happy to talk with you about attorneys via direct message. I haven't met many PEBLO's that understand how the whole process works and how there are a lot of opportunities to get a better results via hiring a dedicated private attorney especially in cases that have unique circumstances.
 
Good to know you are in the business of helping Service Members and making an effort to look out for their interests. Yes, SMs should absolutely be encouraged to seek counsel. And, no, PEBLOs are not legal advisors and should not be providing legal advice. Some PEBLOs are more experienced and have more buy-in than others. I am currently an AF PEBLO with 6 years experience in the PEBLO role. I am also medically retired from the Army, 100% DV, and receive CRSC. I understand the DES top to bottom to include separation benefits and second order affects of the DES outcomes and VA ratings. Anyway, I still disagree that SMs would benefit from a private attorney. For the AF, the Office of the Disabilty Counsel (ODC) provides adequate legal advisement for SMs in the DES.
 
Good to know you are in the business of helping Service Members and making an effort to look out for their interests. Yes, SMs should absolutely be encouraged to seek counsel. And, no, PEBLOs are not legal advisors and should not be providing legal advice. Some PEBLOs are more experienced and have more buy-in than others. I am currently an AF PEBLO with 6 years experience in the PEBLO role. I am also medically retired from the Army, 100% DV, and receive CRSC. I understand the DES top to bottom to include separation benefits and second order affects of the DES outcomes and VA ratings. Anyway, I still disagree that SMs would benefit from a private attorney. For the AF, the Office of the Disabilty Counsel (ODC) provides adequate legal advisement for SMs in the DES.
Glad we are both out there trying to help Soldiers. I would like to win you over on the private counsel take. I am not saying you will get a better result always but its hard to imagine both getting the same results on every case when a dedicate private one puts in much more time into their clients case than a free assigned one. I don't see any JAG being proactive as they often wait for results and then respond. That is very different than planning and preparation to shape the results to the desired outcome and if that doesn't happen there is already a great foundation for getting that result upon appeal.
 
Trying to get some assistance on possible compensation

Va 100%
DOD 60%
Currently receive 4500 for VA
1 spouse 6 kids
 

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