Denied Med board, recommended CND. PTSD and PTSN.

S

SeaWolfMan

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Good morning,

I have been fighting with PTSD for over a year now, due to circumstances that caused great stress and trauma in my life, I did not have PTSD or PTSN symptoms until after I went through a DRB, XOI and ADSEP board, which caused me to have strong panic and anxiety attacks along the way that would cause me to shake violently, caused a temporary stutter, eyes to water, confusion and other sever problems.

I have served for 13 years, I have a history of lower back, neck, spine, shoulder, knee, ankle and other injuries from the Navy as well as anxiety and depression. I have always pushed myself hard to proudly serve my countries navy combat team and now, it seems like they are trying to say, it wasn't their fault at all. I just came back from a deployment, where I had little to no problems, was with people I could trust and finally felt like I was on top of everything, solid, finding things and fixing problems that made everyone around surprised and educated. I got back and was having anxiety problems, trying to pinpoint why, went back to work and ended up unable to sleep properly, waking up from the PTSN again, with panic attacks and anxiety attacks. My partner says I am flailing, talking and at times yelling in my sleep now so I went for a sleep therapy group session.

I talked to one of the docs about my symptoms. I made a follow up appointment for the next day to talk to someone and mentioned how I was told about a year previously, during the initial finding of PTSD and PTSN that the symptoms would indeed get worse as I continued my career, I also told him about the recent findings of the causes of what built up into causing my anxiety, depression, PTSD and PTSN, just some of the things that I can remember from the dreams and explained how yes, I have suicidal ideation, but am constantly brought back due to the fact I have seen what it does to others and how nothing that happens to me, could ever make me make, the ones I love, that are around me, go through having me finally end my own problems and agreed that getting out may be the way to go.

I was told that I do not fit the MEB criteria, but I do fit for a CND... I feel like I deserve the MEB for what has happened to me and I am owed, some kind of closure. I have seen people driven to take their own lives, drugs, alcoholism, I have saved as many as I could as well as continuously fought for everyone around me and encouraged everyone, not letting on that I myself have been struggling for so many years, to hold on a little longer, to support, what I consider my family... I have options after the military, but I need the MEB for many reasons.

Please advise.
 
Sorry to hear all you are going through. From what I understand, a medboard is considered when treatment is no longer a viable option/has failed AND you cannot perform the duties of your rate and paygrade. During your appointment on 26 Dec honestly describe your symptoms and be true to yourself. If your current symptoms affect you to the point that you can no longer perform duties of your rate and paygrade and treatment is not available or previous treatment has failed and there is nothing else to try, the MED Board may be considered.

Here is link for Medical Retention standards: https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/613003_vol02.PDF

Section 5 covers the conditions but right at the opening of section have it explains a general criteria of not being able to perform the duties of the assigned rate and paygrade.

If your appointment is with a PCM, I would consider asking for a referral to see mental health and discuss that stuff with a psychologist. Hope this helps. Keep your head up and never stop advocating for your self.
 
Definitely get everything that affects your health documented, in your medical records.
 
I have a friend got Chapter 5-14 instead of MH MEB, if they put you through chapter route, file your BDD immediately, so you can get your compensation after ya out. IMO about CH5-14:
Con: don't have a chance to get medical retire and rating before you get out (File BDD is highly advise), cannot do Skill Bridge.
Pro: faster process, still a Honorable discharge, have all benefits.
 
Thank you all for the advice,
To clarify, I have the appointment on 26DEC with a base psych.
I actually saw the note from the HM2 that took notes on what I said, he... didn't really listen to what I said, it also clearly doesn't show they at all looked at my record. Long story short, I will more than likely get 100% disability from the VA no question, but I am trying to get the MED BD, due to the fact, I still have severe anxiety and mild panic attacks, that make it very difficult to do my job. I do it, because... well... what else am I going to do until I get out? I do think, I can make the doctor understand, or at worse ask for a 2nd opinion from the Psych that diagnosed me with both PTSD and PTSN.

I also am going to try to talk to our command doc, when they come into work this coming weekend.
 
chaplaincharlie said:
Definitely get everything that affects your health documented, in your medical records.
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It absolutely is, It may not specifically say the diagnosis is an egg, but it tells you the shape, size, color, internals, externals and gender of the egg. I also have written letters specifically diagnosing me with PTSD and PTSN. The imagery and everything from the neck, back degenerating disks, the spinal injury, the diagnosis for the nerve damage throughout my back, the recommendations for exploratory and repair surgery on both my knee and shoulder and much, much more.
 
FatherTime39 said:
Sorry to hear all you are going through. From what I understand, a medboard is considered when treatment is no longer a viable option/has failed AND you cannot perform the duties of your rate and paygrade. During your appointment on 26 Dec honestly describe your symptoms and be true to yourself. If your current symptoms affect you to the point that you can no longer perform duties of your rate and paygrade and treatment is not available or previous treatment has failed and there is nothing else to try, the MED Board may be considered.

Here is link for Medical Retention standards: https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/613003_vol02.PDF

Section 5 covers the conditions but right at the opening of section have it explains a general criteria of not being able to perform the duties of the assigned rate and paygrade.

If your appointment is with a PCM, I would consider asking for a referral to see mental health and discuss that stuff with a psychologist. Hope this helps. Keep your head up and never stop advocating for your self.
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To clarify, I have the appointment on 26DEC with a base psych. I also am going to try to talk to our command doc, when they come into work this coming weekend.
 
Not guna lie all, I am very worried, the dreams have gotten significantly worse after coming back, the depression significantly deeper, I keep going as strong as I am, because I don't know any other way, but I am constantly waking up in a way that feels like I am in extreme danger, or I am waking on the top of an anxiety or panic attack... the other day I woke up to the wife waking me and I was outside in an awake slumber, but paralyzed. she brought me inside and got me on the couch, but the nightmares are just... horrible... the reason I even want the med board, is to provide for them in what seems like an unavoidable collapse of my mental state, when it happens.
 
Winnie11b said:
I have a friend got Chapter 5-14 instead of MH MEB, if they put you through chapter route, file your BDD immediately, so you can get your compensation after ya out. IMO about CH5-14:
Con: don't have a chance to get medical retire and rating before you get out (File BDD is highly advise), cannot do Skill Bridge.
Pro: faster process, still a Honorable discharge, have all benefits.
Click to expand...
You're not wrong at all and it can be difficult to fight a CND/ CH 5-14, but I am confident that I can, in either form. I should know on the 26th if the doctor decides MEB or CND. My main point I want to show him and what confounds me is, I have severe back injuries I will never be able to recover from, knee injury, shoulder injury and a neck injury that are all documented as service related, why wouldn't the MEB be over my entirety? I had an unofficial one at my previous duty station, because of the continual back, neck, spine issues, now I have more problems..
 
Well everyone, if nothing else but to re-engage this post. 3 more days and I should know what the Psych recommends. If the psych is persistent on the CND, I will request talking to the Psych who first recommended I have a med-board under the PTSD, PTSN and my physical injuries.

ps. I really appreciate everyone's support and time.
 
GOOD NEWS!

The psych I talked to today, changed his mind when I talked to him and really thinks a med-board is in order, I explained everything in depth, talked about what is going on and explained what was going on in my head and such.

He wants to talk to someone I work with, to (my words) corroborate, what I am saying, thinking and that I am struggling and such. I provided him a single contact as I have practiced social distancing and social avoidance a lot after my previous command. I talked to them, and they are willing to help, I have been in close proximity working wise with them for the past several months and they know more about what is going on with me than most, most importantly, they are not a nark or an anchor sniffer.

The doc and I agreed, if everything goes well and according to what it seems like, a med board is imminent in approximately 6 months or so, if it extends past that and doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon thereafter, we will take another look at a CND as my mental well-being and state of mind are more important.
 
SeaWolfMan said:
GOOD NEWS!

The psych I talked to today, changed his mind when I talked to him and really thinks a med-board is in order, I explained everything in depth, talked about what is going on and explained what was going on in my head and such.

He wants to talk to someone I work with, to (my words) corroborate, what I am saying, thinking and that I am struggling and such. I provided him a single contact as I have practiced social distancing and social avoidance a lot after my previous command. I talked to them, and they are willing to help, I have been in close proximity working wise with them for the past several months and they know more about what is going on with me than most, most importantly, they are not a nark or an anchor sniffer.

The doc and I agreed, if everything goes well and according to what it seems like, a med board is imminent in approximately 6 months or so, if it extends past that and doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon thereafter, we will take another look at a CND as my mental well-being and state of mind are more important.
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Great, glad you were able to talk to the psych and he seemed amenable to a med board. Just remember, the decision is the doc’s to make and not yours. Do everything they ask you to do in terms of treatment they suggest within reason, and be honest about what isn’t or is working. All of it is ammunition later to advocate for the medboard and ultimately being found unfit.
 
FatherTime39 said:
Great, glad you were able to talk to the psych and he seemed amenable to a med board. Just remember, the decision is the doc’s to make and not yours. Do everything they ask you to do in terms of treatment they suggest within reason, and be honest about what isn’t or is working. All of it is ammunition later to advocate for the medboard and ultimately being found unfit.
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Absolutely, if there is anything that can help, I am open to it. I would not request it or pursue it, if I hadn't already tried everything the PCM, therapists, psychs and such have suggested. I have been consistently going through, what I call a mental rodeo, feeling better, then randomly discovering all my techniques and such that I have learned and the tool box of "tricks" has once again run empty.

The consistent term they have all used is, "I think the longer you are in the military, things will get worse for you. You are strong and your one hell of a fighter, you could make it, but at what cost?"
 
SeaWolfMan said:
Absolutely, if there is anything that can help, I am open to it. I would not request it or pursue it, if I hadn't already tried everything the PCM, therapists, psychs and such have suggested. I have been consistently going through, what I call a mental rodeo, feeling better, then randomly discovering all my techniques and such that I have learned and the tool box of "tricks" has once again run empty.

The consistent term they have all used is, "I think the longer you are in the military, things will get worse for you. You are strong and your one hell of a fighter, you could make it, but at what cost?"
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"The cost" is something that most of us unfortunately learn too late after the damage is done. Myself included, I pushed myself to get through every deployment, took the hard jobs, etc. I spent 18 of the last 21 years on Sea Duty not understanding the toll it was taking on me. I am on my first shore duty and finally went to medical to start getting stuff documented. I was two appointments in they started a medboard. I was upset at first but when i started looking and thinking about my issues I finally started to see "the cost" of being a fighter and constantly pushing. I have no ill will towards the Navy and I owe so much for the successes I have seen and the life I live today, but there damn sure was a cost and there is no refund on that cost especially when you start talking about some of the permanent damage.

Keep at it my friend! Good luck and I hope you get the outcome you want and deserve.
 
FatherTime39 said:
"The cost" is something that most of us unfortunately learn too late after the damage is done. Myself included, I pushed myself to get through every deployment, took the hard jobs, etc. I spent 18 of the last 21 years on Sea Duty not understanding the toll it was taking on me. I am on my first shore duty and finally went to medical to start getting stuff documented. I was two appointments in they started a medboard. I was upset at first but when i started looking and thinking about my issues I finally started to see "the cost" of being a fighter and constantly pushing. I have no ill will towards the Navy and I owe so much for the successes I have seen and the life I live today, but there damn sure was a cost and there is no refund on that cost especially when you start talking about some of the permanent damage.

Keep at it my friend! Good luck and I hope you get the outcome you want and deserve.
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That is my situation exactly, I went 12 years of hard sea duty aviation, thankfully my aircrafts didn't go to the ship unless shit really hit the fan, but the first command was doing detachment/short term deployments every month or so for 3-4 weeks at a time, then the second was the first one to fly after a certain incident and they kept pushing us through 14-18 hr days to get the birds to fly... Most of my problems derive from being gas lit by the C.O.C. and being made to deal with absurd bull crap that constantly had me on edge and eventually broke me when a really good friend died... I had seen murder, suicide, death before then, but even then, I didn't go down without fighting, ended up being the next command that decided to send me through DRB, XOI and Mast that did it, I denied the mast and requested court marshell, they had nothing to take to court marshall and knew it, so they denied my right to it and tried to admin sep board me, I came out ontop.... I don't say this to say, I am that guy, but I fight and I fight hard. but at this point, I am loosing the fight within myself and have requested the med-board, to ensure I don't cause a problem down the line, due to loosing the fight within myself.
 
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