Exhausted and wary...

T

triedandfailed

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I'm hoping someone can give me at least a shred of hope here, as I seem to be all out. This situation is about my husband of over 21 years and my struggle to survive - and sometimes that is a quite literal proposition.

Some background: He was in the Navy for 7 years, injured his knee. Had arthroscopic surgery and the DX was chrondomalasia, a degenerative disease. Just weeks after this surgery he was assigned to sea duty and that caused problems (the rocking of the boat irritated his knee) so, he was boarded out of the Navy in 1996 with a 10% rating.

He wanted nothing more than to stay in, and had to jump through all kinds of hoops and loops to get to where he could try to do that. The Army was not accepting prior service at the time, so it was suggested that he should continue trying by joining the Guard or Reserves and wait for an opportunity to return to AD service.

Joined the ARNG in 1999, where he served as a Reservist until his deployment to Iraq in 2003. Finished 1st tour and was released in 2005.

After 2 months of chasing down paperwork to be released from the ARNG (they don't like to let you go), enlisted in the Active Army June of 2005. Reported to Ft Leonard Wood and then went on to report at Schofield Barracks Aug 2005. He did wind up getting a permanent profile and was excused from the run and performed the walk as an alternative for his APFT.

Deployed for 2 additional Iraq tours while stationed here.

There are a lot of details I'm leaving out here, but to get to the point: He started having issues with outbursts of rage and just general irritability in between the Guard tour and his enlistment in AD. At the time, I thought it was caused by the stress the ARNG was giving him trying to make it difficult to transition to the AD Army. They (the guard) had also royally screwed him out of his promotion in a manner that was legal then, but had since changed when addressed by modified regs. At the time, though, Soldiers couldn't be promoted while deployed because they couldn't attend the required schools (PLDC then) and he did not deploy with his own unit, so the CO declared that to be a DQ for promotion. (The guard really sucks, in case you haven't gathered that LOL)

On his 2nd tour, he was promoted to SGT. There was a 12 month dwell time prior to the 3rd deployment. At this point, he was very irritable and agitated and it became very apparent he was having issues, but there's no time to focus on that because it's time for NTC again, etc. etc....Drive on...

He had intentions of applying for Warrant, and when the opportunity arose, he was trying to get his packet in order to apply. There were issues with the S-1 of his unit, and the fact that he was not stationed on the FOB with the unit, but at a JSS, his frustration, while somewhat warranted, got the best of him. He did continue to submit the same paperwork over and over only to wait a month and have them say they did not receive it, etc.. He was just not doing well at all mentally at a point and basically just gave up on everything. After I had a conversation with the Btn CO in regard to the frustration, the issues with the S-1 were monitored and addressed by the LTC, but my husband was just in this free fall and although I did the best I could to keep supporting him to move forward, it became very volatile and he just got angrier and angrier at everything, and I mean EVERY little thing sometimes, and then completely passive other times.

He *finally* was scheduled for a promotion board after more than 10 months into the deployment, and it was on a bad day for him and he totally blew it. Totally. As in excused from the board.

He has been crashing very hard for years now and I've been helpless to do anything. After he redeployed June 2011, I've basically lived in constant fear. He has sudden, unreasonable and outrageous outbursts over literally nothing sometimes. I work with the Garrison Chaplain, and I tried to get help through that avenue, speaking to his Btn Chaplain Jan 2012 and basically being blown off. I reached out to his 1SG in March, which I was hesitant to do because my husband couldn't stand him, and I learned he was right on that account, because in response to my requesting assistance with my husband threatening suicide and otherwise desperately needing mental health attention, the 1SG responded to me that he (1SG) basically lived at the office and time off for appointments was for slackers and dirtbags. If I really needed help, he said, I would call the MPs and have him arrested when he was behaving violently. The Company Commander (CPT) was present and remained silent in agreement with this statement. (*note: He did tell me that he had informed them of his suicidal thoughts/mental problems during the redeployment screening, this was NEVER followed up by anyone.)

So, as you probably guessed, he was denied re-enlistment due to RCP. Slated to ETS 10/31. Things got even worse (which I hadn't even imagined was possible), but at least because of that, he did seek help from Behavioral Health. This is a good thing, but the reality is that my husband doesn't recall his outbursts and also will go to extremes to not discuss his behavior even when he does recall. He basically was being treated for suicidal thoughts and irritability, but I know for certain he didn't recount the extent or duration of his issues because his MEB Psych paperwork says he states the onset to have been around Jan 2012.

During an ortho appointment in June 2012, the doc decided he should send him to MEB for his knee.

So, they find him unfit for the knee (because that's easy, that EPTS and is the Navy's claim) and fit for his shoulder, ankles, back (all service related due to minor injuries) and Major Depressive Disorder, Recurrent, Severe. His Psychologist (I think the VA) DX is PTSD w/MDD, but the Psychiatrist (civilian) said not PTSD.

How does this even make sense? He says he appealed the findings, so I don't know what happens now. He got a 6 month extension and now is set to ETS in April. I don't know what to do, or if I even can do anything anyway. He will sometimes go for weeks or months and not speak to me, just sleeping as soon as he gets home or being angry or just locked away in his head someplace. They have him on psych meds and that basically keeps him in zombie mode. The only way I know when they change his meds is because he might actually be awake a few hours after work. He's probably in a rage, but he's awake...

I've lived through 6 years with him being thousands of miles away in some war zone, and he's never been so far away from me in all these years as he is now, when he's sitting right next to me. Naturally, I have developed my own issues as a result of this and some days I am just so ready for it all to be over and I realize that I may not be able to keep driving on in order to maintain my own sanity and safety. But, I thought I'd just ask you folks that have been through this crazy system for any guidance you may be inclined to offer.

Blessings for reading & apologies for it being so long.
 
Each medication effects everyone differently. What works for me, will likely not work for others. The only way to find the right combination is trial and error. Unfortunately, that takes some time. It's not uncommon for it to take a year. During that time, he will be zombie like, acting like he's on a sugar buzz, too tired to stay awake, and everywhere in between.

The fact that the docs are changing his meds around is a good sign, because they are trying to find the right mix. Just realize he is in there somewhere, and once the meds are straightened out he will be recognizable to you again. He will likely never be the same person, but should get better than he is now.

I can't offer any help with his case, but I have been dealing with PTSD for a few years. Patience and treatment are the only way to live with it. The symptoms don't go away, but dealing with them does get easier as you learn to avoid stressors and manage the environment.
 
yardbirdaa said:
Each medication effects everyone differently. What works for me, will likely not work for others. The only way to find the right combination is trial and error. Unfortunately, that takes some time. It's not uncommon for it to take a year. During that time, he will be zombie like, acting like he's on a sugar buzz, too tired to stay awake, and everywhere in between.

The fact that the docs are changing his meds around is a good sign, because they are trying to find the right mix. Just realize he is in there somewhere, and once the meds are straightened out he will be recognizable to you again. He will likely never be the same person, but should get better than he is now.

I can't offer any help with his case, but I have been dealing with PTSD for a few years. Patience and treatment are the only way to live with it. The symptoms don't go away, but dealing with them does get easier as you learn to avoid stressors and manage the environment.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this, and for reading all of that.

The Psychiatrist report says that PTSD is not warranted because of the lack of a stressor. In reading the report, I can see that point because I swear I often don't know what it is that sets him off, unless the stressor is actually me breathing air he didn't think I should... It's very overwhelming for my entire family.
 
triedandfailed,

Thank you for sharing your story.

Do you guys have any children?

War itself is a stressor! :) I have a few questions. What was your husband's job during deployments? Also, what did the psychiatrist diagnose if not PTSD...and I guess this psychiatrist is the MEB pysch who wrote NARSUM? Is your husband appealing MEB findings or PEB findings?

Triedandfailed, do what you have to do to take care of yourself. I hope you are getting support from someone--family member or close friend or therapist...someone. The way your husband's command has handle all of this, in my humble opinion, is horribly wrong...if not criminal. I just want to say that even if it is besides the point at this point. Your husband is going to get out of the military at the end of this Medical Board process. And hopefully, he will be able to make substantial steps in his recovery. His PTSD will get better...it may be 6 months after he gets out, it may be 3 years...but it will get better.

War and the scars that follow can be a long road. Trust me, I know...and my wife knows. Thankfully and by God's grace she stayed with me. Be proud for doing what you can to support your husband, but please look out for yourself and do what you need to keep your own sanity. Pray, if inclined to. And the times your husband is stable, remind him of the good times before all this trauma and mess. Good luck to ya.
 
We do have children that live with us, they are older (19 & 20 now).

He is a cook (92G) and worked as such on all deployments. (Also was assigned to remote JSS sites for each deployment, never assigned to a FOB because he was *really* good at performing his job and running the site with one Soldier each time. He had the "full immersion" tours)

The Psychiatrist is a civilian and he was sent there by the VA. There is a shortage of providers in Hawai'i, so they contract out here. The paperwork says he's being evaluated for: PTSD; Anxiety Disorder; Depression; Insomnia. (The insomnia doesn't make any sense because he sleeps all the time and his issue is that he wakes up tired and just feels fatigued all the time). It says does not relate any particular traumatic event that qualifies as a criterion A stressor. Denies experiencing any traumatic event in recurrent recollections, distressing dreams, distress at exposure to similar events...avoidance of stimuli associated with any trauma or avoiding thoughts, activities...does not experience an increased arousal due to a traumatic event in terms of the following symptoms of difficulty staying or falling asleep, irritability or outbursts of anger, exaggerated startle response, difficulty concentrating nor hypervigilance (all of these last are absolutely present all the time)

Her findings were
Axis 1:Major Depression, Recurrent, Severe; Alcohol abuse (substance abuse disorder is a separate and distinct entity)
Axis 2: No diagnosis
Axis 3: Medical problems
Axis 4: Inadequate social support; conflict with wife; MEB
Axis 5: GAF score is 60.

I don't really have much faith that it is really going to get much better. He is content to say that I make him angry even when he cannot specify a single reason for him to be angry with me. It's the breathing, I'm convinced of it!
 
triedandfailed

Ok. Regardless of the name the mental conditions...sounds like he is going to be found unfit. So he appealed and the docs will determine what his diagnosis should be. Nothing you can really do about that. :)

None of this is your fault. Unless, of course, you are breathing wrong! HA JK ;) I fully understand that you have little faith in your entire situation with your husband getting any better...as I'm sure he can't see himself ever getting better. I know it is very dark times for both of you, but things can get better. Obviously, I'm speaking in a vacuum and don't know everything about your situation. Ok...this is all getting a little too deep...lol. Hang in there and do what you gotta do for yourself. :)
 
LOL I know it seems inappropriate to make jokes, but it's a coping mechanism for me, so I apologize for that, but I probably won't stop doing it. The situation is extremely serious, though. There's just no way I can deal with this alone. I have to be weary just to go to the grocery store because I'm not always certain he's going to be alive when I return, or if he is alive, he might go into a rage because he would rather have some other flavor of something or whatever. It's SO difficult to just live having any semblance of normalcy...

Then, the docs keep wanting to do things that I'm not sure about and I don't really trust them. It feels like they are deliberately keeping the tempo at a smothering rate. Today, pain management has arranged for him to have nerve blockers injected into this back and neck. I don't think I would agree with that under normal circumstances, but I am REALLY not inclined to agree that what he needs right now is neurological blocks.

If this is a system that is supposed to be designed to HELP Soldiers deal with issues, I don't understand how it is effectively implemented in such a way to drive you crazy if you weren't already there to begin with.
 
Aye, I will first to you and your husband
thank you for your service and sacrifice.
Now for the PTSD part he needs to have an
significant emotional event in one of his tours.
I.E. combat event makes a real difference dealing with
the VA and or anyone in MH.
 
johndelta said:
Aye, I will first to you and your husband
thank you for your service and sacrifice.
Now for the PTSD part he needs to have an
significant emotional event in one of his tours.
I.E. combat event makes a real difference dealing with
the VA and or anyone in MH.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, as I said initially (though buried in that really long post). His Army Psychiatrist and Psychologist both do disagree and DX PTSD. I really don't care what anyone wants to call it, my concern is whether he gets the help he needs and dealing with the reality of whatever it is - even if it's "just" severe depression - has cost him his career already and every single day poses a very real threat that it is going to cost him his life by his own hand. If it's this bad now, I can't even fathom how it's going to be when he's actually discharged, and I don't really think that retirement or separation is going to matter much. I get that they're doing what they can with meds and therapy, etc...but the system is really stressful and we are now having to make very important decisions with little to no understanding and even less ability to find calm or normalcy.

I apologize if this comes off snippy, I'm just so frustrated. I don't care if someone wants to call it Purple People Eater Syndrome - I just want it to be treated appropriately. I want my life back. My reality is that him staying in is the safest situation, getting out is not going to be anything but worse.
 
Aloha, it's me again...

I actually have some answers now, and we have some understanding of what went wrong here. Unfortunately, it is a case of "be careful what you wish for".

So, he received another extension which was supposed to be 6 months (again).

At this point in the IDES system, he has appealed (I think that's the right word) and is scheduled for a formal hearing on 5/17.

As far as the PTSD issue, the MEB (someone that is the head of some dept) reviewed his psych case and it was discovered that the Psychologist made a clerical error in her report and when she intended to say DX PTSD unfit, she instead said Fit for full duty, return to duty (whatever that code says). So, that doc basically caught the error as the DX doesn't match the narrative nor is substantiated by the file. Advisement a week ago was that a new MEB would be initiated for the PTSD.

Meanwhile, a new Command Team has come in, so I reached out to them for their help in getting him into WTU. Command agrees it is appropriate after conferring with Behavioral Health. It is then I come to find out that the ONLY BH consult was his redeployment screening in JUL 2011. They had decided he should be sent then, but you know, backlog...

So, now I have the support of the unit, the correct DX, but instead of starting a new med board for the psych, someone decided to just "tack on" (a week ago) PTSD to the current board which was to have the hearing on the 17th.

We had an appointment with the MEB legal attorney yesterday. He said that "they want to settle this case". Not just my husbands, but a bunch of them because they are trying to clear out dockets. He said that if we didn't agree to settle, the board member that offered to settle may take retribution at the formal hearing because we denied it.

His original MEB was sitting at 20% for physical issues (knee, ankle) with the back issues not having yet been rated. Now, with adding the PTSD it's auto TDRL, but there is no board happening on that and there is no chance to get into WTB and get the treatment they offer.

The lawyer basically said (as you'd expect a lawyer to say) Just take the 30% plus the TDRL for PTSD and go away. Their concern isn't the treatment needed but just giving us money and getting a file off of their docket.

I don't give a hoot about percentages or retirement. My concern is treatment. Their plan is to send me packing with a suicidal, impulsive husband on drugs that sometimes are worse than the behavior without them and deal with him ALONE until he can get into the even more screwed up VA system. There is no financial arrangement that is worth that.

I do not care if they don't give him retirement, I am absolutely certain I can hire a lawyer on the other end and get that handled. In fact, we are financially better off to take severance because at least then we aren't suddenly trying to ALSO live on ¼ pay on top of dealing with the issues he has.

I think the best thing to do *right now* is to insist on a new board for the psych issues and that will allow him to get into the WTB.

If anyone can advise me - whether you think I am right or wrong - please do because I really don't know what the heck I am doing, and neither does anyone else here it seems...

I don't know how any of you stay sane dealing with this stuff!
 
I am sorry for all you have gone through.

I am going to disagree with you on a couple of points. First,, the VA is going to offer a high degree of care. Based on him being an OIF/OEF vet, he will be a cat 1 for a min of 5 years, and based on what you have said, will have a high rating and be cat 1 for good. The BH teams in the VA are awesome. I have been with three VA systems. Syracuse, San Diego, and now San Francisco. All three were/are awesome. The Veterans Health Administration (VHA) has a large budget and does a great job onboarding good care providers. Here at the SF VA, I am seen once a week by a doctor, and there are a dozen different groups each day. Medication support is great and I always get seen right away. The VHA is a totally different different than the other two branches of the VA.

Second, the WTU is a great resource, but it is not what you think it will be. It is designed to manage care to get people through a process. You will still fall under the same overburdened BH clinics, he will just get a higher priority for regular appointments. He will be seen by BH once a week more than likely. A WTU will be good or bad based on the chain of command. Some are very understanding and empathetic to soldier issues, others are not and are stat counters. He will still fall under UCMJ. A slip up can cost him dearly. The WTU is a crossroads where they would commit to getting him better, or starting a board. They don't do both. He has started the board already and you can figure which path your husband will be on.

Go to the formal and fight the fight, but after that, work to get out. Transition to the VA and use everything they have. Get a team going and get your husband help. As soon as his board is complete, he can set appointments up through the VA OIF/OEF coordinator of the hospital nearest to where you plan on going. They will enter him into the system based on proposed ratings and a DD 214. I had my first VA appointment 3 days after I started my terminal leave. He also can apply for voc rehab based on his proposed ratings. Get that stuff going now so he can transition to this right as he gets out. That way income continues as he transitions. There is also untold benefits based on having a light at the end of the tunnel and being able to throw himself into a future that doesn't involve the Army. Hope is an extremely strong drug, and can do great things for a depressed person.

Good luck and please continue to keep us updated. Feel free to ask anything and know you are part of a very tight family that will do anything we can to help.

Joe
 
Mahalo ranger,

I appreciate the reply and encouragement. I'm just tired of all the run around.
His VA rating was 70% before the new stuff and the back, but the VA care doesn't even seem to matter anyway because he's being retired. He doesn't have to go through the VA for care.

The TDRL has to be reassessed in 6 months and he has to keep up with his current treatment for those 6 months. He can't do that unless we stay here in Hawai'i and he just continues on since he's in the system...and I don't think the drugs and the treatment (supposed to be Psychologist 2x week...lucky to get appointment once a week) he's getting is helping anything at all. More pills, different pills, stay asleep till we're done screwing you...

I'm just so angry at the attitude. The lawyer flat out said just don't improve your quality of life or condition for at least 6 months and you will get permanent and then you can maybe get better.

I guess that's easy to say for someone that hasn't been living in this hell and dealing with this for years.
 
Out of curiosity are the two of you attending couples therapy for this? Do you have a solid transition plan in place for when your husband separatres?

If stress seems to be the trigger for your husband's anxeity and depression, the two of you should work to gether to mitigate it.

Entertain the possiblity that you may possibly be one of his trigger points.
 
gsfowler said:
Out of curiosity are the two of you attending couples therapy for this? Do you have a solid transition plan in place for when your husband separatres?

If stress seems to be the trigger for your husband's anxeity and depression, the two of you should work to gether to mitigate it.

Entertain the possiblity that you may possibly be one of his trigger points.
Click to expand...


Yes to all of the above.

As long winded as my posts have been, there is much I leave out because I'm trying to focus on the board system issues with background details that explain how we are where we are in this process.

The PTSD was there in '04/'05 and we were trying to manage with Anger Management and also seeing a counselor with excellent command support. The depression, systemic cluster and high tempo deployment cycle creating a blender effect is what has really caused the situation to be an outright crisis.

It is the counselor that has kept encouraging me to get him into WTU so that he (and I) have an advocate to try and keep up on all of the MEB and general Army process because as it stands, *I* am the one having to basically be responsible for all of it and it is very overwhelming for me. I have to coordinate with whatever resources are available to me and then hope they keep their word (which was an area his previous command team was severely lacking in) and all the while keep up with the normal responsibilities of maintaining a household, family, finances, etc.

I don't want to make this a complete gripe fest, but perhaps you will understand how stressful these typically unnecessary and normal, everyday issues are if you can imagine that I am his trigger point when he doesn't want to take a shower and I insist he does it anyway. Or, when I basically have to push him to go to his daughter's birthday dinner or follow through on attending an event HE wanted to do and helped make arrangements for, but then decides he's going to sit in his chair and sleep or otherwise avoid life in general.

As a glimpse into how weird and crazy our life is: one day I'm cooking dinner as usual. He walks into the kitchen and grabs a banana and I say "Dinner will be done in 15 mins". This is a typical scenario in any household, right? Well, not always in my house. He stood there and ate the banana anyway - OK that isn't really a problem, but then he grabs another banana and I say again "Dinner is almost ready" (which is said in normal I'm your wife and I'm cooking a dinner you like tone). He then proceeds to throw an outright fit. Screaming at me - with the empty banana peel still in his hand from the banana I watched him eat - how he did NOT eat that banana. I, at this point do not really know what is going on and I have to decide whether he is having a memory lapse or he is just raging in general and wanting to fight, but regardless, he escalates this outburst and is screaming at me for "accusing him of eating a banana he did not eat" and then is throwing the banana peel at me across the kitchen and then sweeps the counter next to him to knock everything off telling me that I am lying about him eating it. Awesome.

Sometimes, when things like this happen, he realizes how confused he is and will apologize (but still not be convinced that he actually ate that banana). But other times, he will not speak to me for extended periods of time because I accused him of something he believes he is "innocent" of. He ate the banana. I saw him eat the banana. Am I supposed to say he didn't and his behavior was acceptable so that he isn't angry at me? I don't care if he eats an entire bunch of bananas, I DO care about his behavior towards me, though. And, no, it isn't *just* me, he can flick off on our kids as well occasionally, but I generally run interference on that. Or, he may be focused on someone at work and can't really blow up at them, so he waits till he gets the opportunity to get to the "Complaint Dept" (that's me).

Then the next morning I have to suck it all up and be by his side at this or that event, appointment or meeting.

There are far worse examples I could give, but I won't in this public forum. I also have to use the time and energy I have *right now* to try and stay focused on getting informed enough to make decisions that he is honestly not capable of making right now.

Today could be a great day. He has an appointment with pain management for an injection procedure on his knees. We have a reservation at one of the military rec centers to stay at a cabin tonight for a date night. Last weekend's date night was great, but the weekend before? A disaster in which he took off and wound up being picked up by the MPs because he was walking across the flight line. I don't know if I should be grateful that they didn't write a report and just dropped him off after admonishing him or not. The cabin rental is paid for and not refundable. If he is having a bad day and decides he isn't going, I will go myself. He will be mad if I do that, but it will be a miserable time no matter what I choose. If he's having a good day, it will be fun...I hope.

I have plenty of opportunities to have a nervous breakdown. Bananas can cause that - who knew? I don't, however have much time, energy or knowledge to avoid making mistakes while navigating through this system which is a maze of confusion and double talk. In an entirely insane twist, the one thing I believe that should be absolutely solid in following a well prescribed protocol of regulations and policy is the Army. Maybe I *am* the crazy one after all...
 
gsfowler said:
Perhaps. I would recommend talking to the MFLC at your current post. 1-800-646-5613
Click to expand...


:) I see them on a regular basis when I am at the Chapel for meetings or performing my normal duties.

I appreciate it, I truly do, but believe me, I'm on it when it comes to resources available. I advise others on that matter.
 
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