I was wondering if someone could explain to me like I am 5 years old, the difference between the Integrated DES and the Legacy DES. If you elect the LDES which, from what I am seeing, goes much quicker are you locked into that DOD rating forever? How does that effect the medically retired vs medically separated aspect? If you choose the IDES, do they give you a VA doctor to go to or do you pick? I've heard some VA clinics/doctors are favorable for ratings. I just don't totally understand the process of election of which format and why you would choose one over the other.
IDES vs LDES
TLDR: You shouldn't elect for LDES unless you have a very compelling reason to be out of the military as quickly as possible (employment shouldn't be the reason).
LDES: You will do the bare minimum of the DES process to decide whether your referred condition fails retention standards for your service branch. You will not be assigned an MSC and won't conduct comprehensive C&P exams for the VA. You will be evaluated (likely by your local military treatment facility) for ONLY your referred condition, this info then gets sent to your services PEB who will determine fitness for duty, combat vs non-combat codes and will ask the VA what they would rate your referred condition at. Whatever the VA says they would rate your condition is what your DOD percentage will come back as. You still retain your right to appeal in the LDES process same as IDES.
IDES: You gain the benefit of the full DES system and will be evaluated for both your referred and claimed conditions. You will be assigned an MSC to assist you in filing a VA claim for everything wrong with you and they will set up C&P exams to gain medical evidence for your claim. This is good as it can lead to additional failing conditions which raises your DOD percentage. All of that data, DBQs and NARSUM will go to the PEB for fitness decision and combat codes after which they will request ratings from the VA. The VA will return proposed ratings for ALL of your conditions, claimed and referred. The DOD will use the percentage for your referred conditions only, but you will have your total rating from the VA to plan going forward. IDES (in general) is a more comprehensive and thorough evaluation and transition process than LDES.
Your DOD rating is unlikely to ever change once decided / you exhaust your appeals, even if the VA lowers it later it stays the same on the DOD side.
Neither process lets you pick a doctor for your evaluation, you will be given a date, time and place and that's where you gotta be, it trumps all other taskings. I can't really speak to whether the MTFs or VA contractors give higher ratings, but it seems to reason that an MTF doctor whose main job is not VA C&P exams is less likely to give you accurate DBQs than a VA contractor whose only job is to evaluate veterans.
As for separation vs retirement: if your referred conditions are rated at or above 30% you are medically retired, if they are 20% or below you are separated with severance unless it was self-inflicted / gross misconduct.
LDES: You will do the bare minimum of the DES process to decide whether your referred condition fails retention standards for your service branch. You will not be assigned an MSC and won't conduct comprehensive C&P exams for the VA. You will be evaluated (likely by your local military treatment facility) for ONLY your referred condition, this info then gets sent to your services PEB who will determine fitness for duty, combat vs non-combat codes and will ask the VA what they would rate your referred condition at. Whatever the VA says they would rate your condition is what your DOD percentage will come back as. You still retain your right to appeal in the LDES process same as IDES.
IDES: You gain the benefit of the full DES system and will be evaluated for both your referred and claimed conditions. You will be assigned an MSC to assist you in filing a VA claim for everything wrong with you and they will set up C&P exams to gain medical evidence for your claim. This is good as it can lead to additional failing conditions which raises your DOD percentage. All of that data, DBQs and NARSUM will go to the PEB for fitness decision and combat codes after which they will request ratings from the VA. The VA will return proposed ratings for ALL of your conditions, claimed and referred. The DOD will use the percentage for your referred conditions only, but you will have your total rating from the VA to plan going forward. IDES (in general) is a more comprehensive and thorough evaluation and transition process than LDES.
Your DOD rating is unlikely to ever change once decided / you exhaust your appeals, even if the VA lowers it later it stays the same on the DOD side.
Neither process lets you pick a doctor for your evaluation, you will be given a date, time and place and that's where you gotta be, it trumps all other taskings. I can't really speak to whether the MTFs or VA contractors give higher ratings, but it seems to reason that an MTF doctor whose main job is not VA C&P exams is less likely to give you accurate DBQs than a VA contractor whose only job is to evaluate veterans.
As for separation vs retirement: if your referred conditions are rated at or above 30% you are medically retired, if they are 20% or below you are separated with severance unless it was self-inflicted / gross misconduct.
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@RealisticButOptimistic
The only correction from what's been said is that the military department won't necessarily reach out to the VA for a rating recommendation for any unfitting conditions in the LDES. In the LDES process, the VA is not involved because you wouldn't have filed a VA 21-0819 - this is the form used to integrate the VA and DoD DES processes. Without the 0819 (this form would list only your DES referred condition(s)), the VA would be completely unaware of your case and have no access to your medical records for rating purposes. Also, because you wouldn't have filled out the VA's Separation Health Assessment (SHA) and follow-on VA 21-526EZ (this form would list all your DES referred and non-referred conditions), you will not have received the C&P exams that generate the DBQ's the VA raters use to issue ratings. That said, are there informal processes that take place within the DES, yes; still, note that the military department retains full control over EVERY aspect within the LDES and can choose to insulate your case as much as it pleases.
I hope this helps.
S/f,
Joel
Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.
The only correction from what's been said is that the military department won't necessarily reach out to the VA for a rating recommendation for any unfitting conditions in the LDES. In the LDES process, the VA is not involved because you wouldn't have filed a VA 21-0819 - this is the form used to integrate the VA and DoD DES processes. Without the 0819 (this form would list only your DES referred condition(s)), the VA would be completely unaware of your case and have no access to your medical records for rating purposes. Also, because you wouldn't have filled out the VA's Separation Health Assessment (SHA) and follow-on VA 21-526EZ (this form would list all your DES referred and non-referred conditions), you will not have received the C&P exams that generate the DBQ's the VA raters use to issue ratings. That said, are there informal processes that take place within the DES, yes; still, note that the military department retains full control over EVERY aspect within the LDES and can choose to insulate your case as much as it pleases.
I hope this helps.
S/f,
Joel
Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.
Hey Joel,
I see you have a lot of experience with the PEB. Just curious if you are able to provide any insight on timelines currently? What month they are currently processing?
Additionally, if we have a job offer for a career opportunity not just a regular job can we send that to the PEB for consideration to be expedited? I’ve heard conflicting information.
S/F
I see you have a lot of experience with the PEB. Just curious if you are able to provide any insight on timelines currently? What month they are currently processing?
Additionally, if we have a job offer for a career opportunity not just a regular job can we send that to the PEB for consideration to be expedited? I’ve heard conflicting information.
S/F
Think of IDES as the “do it together” option and LDES as the “military first” option. With IDES, the DoD and VA work at the same time, the VA does your exams, and you get proposed VA ratings early, which helps with benefits after separation. LDES is usually faster, but the DoD decides your fitness and rating first, and you’re not locked into that rating forever—you can still file or update VA claims later. IDES takes longer but is often chosen because it’s more predictable for VA benefits, while LDES is more about speed.
@USMC6469
Timelines in the Department of the Navy are not clear, presently. They just instituted the NDITS IT system, and it still has bugs they need to work out - their words, not mine. I've had several cases sail through and others get stopped for seemingly small issues. They are working through the issues, but it's still a work in progress. As far as post-military opportunities and their effect on the processing times, there is no mandate for anyone in the DES process to incorporate opportunity costs into the analysis. Case in point, cases that conclude with a stipulation by all parties could be processed faster because no one has any issue with the outcome; hence, the stipulation. Sadly, in reality, if there are 100 cases waiting to get the QA section's certification so they can be closed, ahead of a stipulated case, all those will be done in the order they arrived while the stipulated case waits its turn. Of course, there are informal favors done, from time to time, if possible, but relying on a favor to start a new career may not be prudent.
I hope this helps.
S/f,
Joel
Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.
Timelines in the Department of the Navy are not clear, presently. They just instituted the NDITS IT system, and it still has bugs they need to work out - their words, not mine. I've had several cases sail through and others get stopped for seemingly small issues. They are working through the issues, but it's still a work in progress. As far as post-military opportunities and their effect on the processing times, there is no mandate for anyone in the DES process to incorporate opportunity costs into the analysis. Case in point, cases that conclude with a stipulation by all parties could be processed faster because no one has any issue with the outcome; hence, the stipulation. Sadly, in reality, if there are 100 cases waiting to get the QA section's certification so they can be closed, ahead of a stipulated case, all those will be done in the order they arrived while the stipulated case waits its turn. Of course, there are informal favors done, from time to time, if possible, but relying on a favor to start a new career may not be prudent.
I hope this helps.
S/f,
Joel
Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.
That does help. Thank you, Sir.