[FONT="]DODI 6040.44 E3.5(4):
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Physical Disability Board of Review Update
- Thread starter Jason Perry
- Start date
[FONT="]DODI 6040.44 E3.5(4):
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Yeah they are following that alot lately.....**sarcasm**
Is anyone else fighting the PDBR on here for a denied case? If so who is your lawyer? I tried Lawyers Serving Warriors and they are giving me a run around with the PDBR saying they are under staffed to take on any more PDBR or BCMR cases. Im looking and pleading for help.
Jason Perry
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I just e-mailed you.
I can't even afford a lawyer, maybe that is why they are turning people down, they know they probably can't afford to fight it.
I just wanted to respectfully apologize to Jason about the below statement on the forum here. I deleted the portion of the message that is in question by me but just wanted to apologize for the people that already viewed the message and saw the comment that could have been "bad for business." I mentioned he was very busy with a handful of cases, the truth is I dont know anything about his caseload and after a very frustrating conversation with the Lawyers Serving Warriors program, and the ongoing stress of other life altering situations going on, I jumped the gun and said some things I shouldn't have.
The truth is Jason and I talked about him possibly taking on my case, but as seminole said, I can't afford it, so like any business man and lawyer who has to feed his family just like we all have too it was the case of Jason couldnt make promises because he does have a caseload of people that are paid and he doesnt have the manpower to commit to a pro bono basis at this point. Thats where my "jump the gun" comment came from.
Again sir I appologize for the comment, it was not meant to project to anyone your too busy to represent them. I wish to god I had the money to retain Jason, he is a good man and looking through his website is a very knowledgable and prestine lawyer to have on your team.
Jonathan "Big Will" Williams
The truth is Jason and I talked about him possibly taking on my case, but as seminole said, I can't afford it, so like any business man and lawyer who has to feed his family just like we all have too it was the case of Jason couldnt make promises because he does have a caseload of people that are paid and he doesnt have the manpower to commit to a pro bono basis at this point. Thats where my "jump the gun" comment came from.
Again sir I appologize for the comment, it was not meant to project to anyone your too busy to represent them. I wish to god I had the money to retain Jason, he is a good man and looking through his website is a very knowledgable and prestine lawyer to have on your team.
Jonathan "Big Will" Williams
Jason Perry
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Big Will,
No offense taken. Your post brings up a number of points. I will discuss the issues with the market for legal services in another post.
One thing that I would like to point out is my "bigger picture" game plan. First off, with the Administrative process (MEB/PEB and then BCMR and/or PDBR) my philosophy is that it is best for the Servicemember to win early. All things being equal (please forgive the cliche; we all know all things are rarely equal), a win at the PEB is better than a win on a rebuttal which, in turn, is better than a win at the BCMR/PDBR. The earlier the win, the more secure you are in your position and the cheaper...also, there is no award for lost interest payment for a wrongfully denied disability benefit. Basically, the government gets to say, "well, we were wrong to deny you the money, and it may have been a hardship losing your house or bouncing all those checks....but even though it is two, three, five years (or more) too late, here you go...Sorry, we can't pay you interest or damages for our wrongful action...."
The only downside to winning early is that while this is a more desirable outcome for the individual, it does not do much of anything to change the way the government is conducting business. Absent a ticked off Congress or a good and benevolent leader in the military (they do exist, I have come across them...a challenge is that it is difficult for these individuals to effect big picture change for many reasons, including the structure for oversight of the Physical Disability Evaluation System Process, to "inertia" in changing established practices) the courts are a good place to get effective change.
Remember, an individual case decided through the administrative process does not bind the government to doing or not doing a certain thing. It is basically a non-precedential decision. But when you get to court, the decision may not only benefit the member, but may also produce a precedent that will be persuasive or even binding on the military in all other cases. So, in my view, getting into court on important issues and winning on them may be the future of effecting good change (my sense about the chances of good outcomes overall comes from the fact that my read of a fair and reasonable application of the current rules would very often make a lot of Servicemembers "issues" go away).
You may ask, if what I have said is so, why has it not already happened? That question will be addressed, among others, in my post on the Legal Services Market.
No offense taken. Your post brings up a number of points. I will discuss the issues with the market for legal services in another post.
One thing that I would like to point out is my "bigger picture" game plan. First off, with the Administrative process (MEB/PEB and then BCMR and/or PDBR) my philosophy is that it is best for the Servicemember to win early. All things being equal (please forgive the cliche; we all know all things are rarely equal), a win at the PEB is better than a win on a rebuttal which, in turn, is better than a win at the BCMR/PDBR. The earlier the win, the more secure you are in your position and the cheaper...also, there is no award for lost interest payment for a wrongfully denied disability benefit. Basically, the government gets to say, "well, we were wrong to deny you the money, and it may have been a hardship losing your house or bouncing all those checks....but even though it is two, three, five years (or more) too late, here you go...Sorry, we can't pay you interest or damages for our wrongful action...."
The only downside to winning early is that while this is a more desirable outcome for the individual, it does not do much of anything to change the way the government is conducting business. Absent a ticked off Congress or a good and benevolent leader in the military (they do exist, I have come across them...a challenge is that it is difficult for these individuals to effect big picture change for many reasons, including the structure for oversight of the Physical Disability Evaluation System Process, to "inertia" in changing established practices) the courts are a good place to get effective change.
Remember, an individual case decided through the administrative process does not bind the government to doing or not doing a certain thing. It is basically a non-precedential decision. But when you get to court, the decision may not only benefit the member, but may also produce a precedent that will be persuasive or even binding on the military in all other cases. So, in my view, getting into court on important issues and winning on them may be the future of effecting good change (my sense about the chances of good outcomes overall comes from the fact that my read of a fair and reasonable application of the current rules would very often make a lot of Servicemembers "issues" go away).
You may ask, if what I have said is so, why has it not already happened? That question will be addressed, among others, in my post on the Legal Services Market.
Great post Jason. I am continuing the fight via Congress and the media. Expect a relevant article soon. As I learned beginning with the Walter Reed situation, press coverage sure can grease the skids of change and reform. Great progress has been made but too much remains broken. Keep the faith.
Mike
Mike
After 7 months, they still don't have my VA records. Any word yet on how their treating Sleep Apnea?
Big Will,
I read your apology to Jason, however I think that you should just relax. Jason create this website, he has been giving people free information. You were denied retirement and very upset... Constantly being pissed off about it will not get you anything but a headache. I as you know also have a claim in to the PDBR, by regs etc I should be retired. The thing is that I know how messed up the DOD can be and frankly I do not trust this board at all. If for some reason that my claim is not approved I will press on... Why give yourself a headache over it, the DOD has been screwing us veterans over for years and years. Big Will just do what you have to do but dont go to crazy over this. Honestly after reading all of your posts, I lost all hope for the PDBR and for the people who have not read all your posts, please spare them.
I read your apology to Jason, however I think that you should just relax. Jason create this website, he has been giving people free information. You were denied retirement and very upset... Constantly being pissed off about it will not get you anything but a headache. I as you know also have a claim in to the PDBR, by regs etc I should be retired. The thing is that I know how messed up the DOD can be and frankly I do not trust this board at all. If for some reason that my claim is not approved I will press on... Why give yourself a headache over it, the DOD has been screwing us veterans over for years and years. Big Will just do what you have to do but dont go to crazy over this. Honestly after reading all of your posts, I lost all hope for the PDBR and for the people who have not read all your posts, please spare them.
I hear ya there brother..but to clarify things, Jason and I had a great discussion over the phone last night. So im a little more relaxed and focused.
Even though everything is jacked, it will all work out. I believe we will all get what we deserve soon. I believe in "they will get theirs." Meaning all this "policy dodging" or "tight rope walking" with policies will bite them in the ass. Because even though they are beating around the bush with certain statements within their rules and regs. They are dealing injustice that will creep up to them soon. Especially when people outside of the "circles" of the PDBR and us the applicants get wind of whats going on, it will work in our favor.
Hence what Mike and Jason posted earlier on here. Im ready for a fight!
Just a quick overview so that when I hear from the PDBR you will have a short history / time-line.
I entered Active Duty USN in Feb 79 and completed my tour 6 years later as an E-6 / PO1 in Feb 85. I had had problems with instability with my knees during my ship board service but nothing that rose to the level of a Med Board.
I did 2 more years in the Naval Reserve 85-87 as a drilling reservist, and then transferred to the New York Army National Guard in 87 to attend reserve OCS which lasts a year.
I graduated OCS and was commissioned in June 89 and went on Active duty for 6 months at Fort Sill for my Artillery Officer Basic Course. During this period we ran or did PT every day and my knees ached constantly. I would ICE them prior to and after all my runs. But still nothing that the Army saw fit to board me for.
I transferred to the Florida Army National Guard in 1992. During the transfer from New York all my Navy Enlisted Records (medical, etc) where lost by the Guard. I had asked to hand carry them to Florida, but the Guard would not let me. Reason: I would probably loose the records. Don't you love irony?
In 1999 I was activated in the Guard and Reserve Program as a Captain / Operations officer for a Guard Artillery unit. During the 2 year tour my knees became even worse, and I injured my lumbar spine while doing a rail load of MLRS launchers, and aggravated both conditions during daily PT.
I finished the 2 years in Spring 2001 and was activated again for Operation Enduring Freedom on 28 SEP 2001. I was sent to Fort Bliss with my unit and we where held there to provide menial labor to a unit on post. The REMF unit I was with had a bad case of Infantry envy so they had to run 5 miles a day every day. Needless to say this finished off my knees and back. I was MED boarded out and discharged in July 2002.
The Army rated me at 10% for my back and 0% for both knees. I was given a VA exam PRIOR to discharge in June 2002. I received my VA rating from that exam in March 2003 (within 9 months of my discharge). The VA rated me at 10% for my Lumbar spine and 10% for each knee with a bi-lateral factor thrown in. Total was 30%. They also rated me for severe sinusitis (desert dust makes it worse), and flat feet. Total VA rating was 40%.
I applied to the PDBR in early April 2009 (Docket #297) and as of 7 July 2009 my application was in Washington, DC at the adjudication unit. By my count it has been 10 weeks since it got to Washington. I only asked the board to up me to the 30% I feel I should have received from the Army as I was boarded out for my knees and back, so there is no argument about fit or unfit. I was found unfit for all 3 conditions by the Army and have a VA rating within 1 year of discharge for the same conditions.
I am waiting with baited breath to see just how they wiggle out of this one. Given the policy changes released in June by the PDBR it should be a no brain er upgrade. But we all know better. More updates as I get them.
I entered Active Duty USN in Feb 79 and completed my tour 6 years later as an E-6 / PO1 in Feb 85. I had had problems with instability with my knees during my ship board service but nothing that rose to the level of a Med Board.
I did 2 more years in the Naval Reserve 85-87 as a drilling reservist, and then transferred to the New York Army National Guard in 87 to attend reserve OCS which lasts a year.
I graduated OCS and was commissioned in June 89 and went on Active duty for 6 months at Fort Sill for my Artillery Officer Basic Course. During this period we ran or did PT every day and my knees ached constantly. I would ICE them prior to and after all my runs. But still nothing that the Army saw fit to board me for.
I transferred to the Florida Army National Guard in 1992. During the transfer from New York all my Navy Enlisted Records (medical, etc) where lost by the Guard. I had asked to hand carry them to Florida, but the Guard would not let me. Reason: I would probably loose the records. Don't you love irony?
In 1999 I was activated in the Guard and Reserve Program as a Captain / Operations officer for a Guard Artillery unit. During the 2 year tour my knees became even worse, and I injured my lumbar spine while doing a rail load of MLRS launchers, and aggravated both conditions during daily PT.
I finished the 2 years in Spring 2001 and was activated again for Operation Enduring Freedom on 28 SEP 2001. I was sent to Fort Bliss with my unit and we where held there to provide menial labor to a unit on post. The REMF unit I was with had a bad case of Infantry envy so they had to run 5 miles a day every day. Needless to say this finished off my knees and back. I was MED boarded out and discharged in July 2002.
The Army rated me at 10% for my back and 0% for both knees. I was given a VA exam PRIOR to discharge in June 2002. I received my VA rating from that exam in March 2003 (within 9 months of my discharge). The VA rated me at 10% for my Lumbar spine and 10% for each knee with a bi-lateral factor thrown in. Total was 30%. They also rated me for severe sinusitis (desert dust makes it worse), and flat feet. Total VA rating was 40%.
I applied to the PDBR in early April 2009 (Docket #297) and as of 7 July 2009 my application was in Washington, DC at the adjudication unit. By my count it has been 10 weeks since it got to Washington. I only asked the board to up me to the 30% I feel I should have received from the Army as I was boarded out for my knees and back, so there is no argument about fit or unfit. I was found unfit for all 3 conditions by the Army and have a VA rating within 1 year of discharge for the same conditions.
I am waiting with baited breath to see just how they wiggle out of this one. Given the policy changes released in June by the PDBR it should be a no brain er upgrade. But we all know better. More updates as I get them.
Hi Mike!
Discharge was on or about 28 JUNE 2002
VA Physical was on or about 15 JUNE 2002
(Given at William Beaumont VA / Army medical center.)
VA rating Letter received on or about 10 MAR 2003. (Effective date of the rating was as of my Discharge date June 2002). I received retro pay to that date.
So as far as I can remember my discharge and VA effective date where one and the same.
Sorry about the on or about, but I am at work and don't have my documents in front of me. All dates are at most 10 days off, as I remember it.
NOTE: ONE THING I FORGOT, I APPLIED TO THE ABCMR IN JUNE 2005 AND WAS TURNED DOWN IN JUNE 2006 WHEN I APPEALED BASED ON MY VA FINDINGS. BUT DUE TO THE NDAA I CAN STILL APPLY TO THE PDBR. (Not yelling just empahsis.)
Larry
Discharge was on or about 28 JUNE 2002
VA Physical was on or about 15 JUNE 2002
(Given at William Beaumont VA / Army medical center.)
VA rating Letter received on or about 10 MAR 2003. (Effective date of the rating was as of my Discharge date June 2002). I received retro pay to that date.
So as far as I can remember my discharge and VA effective date where one and the same.
Sorry about the on or about, but I am at work and don't have my documents in front of me. All dates are at most 10 days off, as I remember it.
NOTE: ONE THING I FORGOT, I APPLIED TO THE ABCMR IN JUNE 2005 AND WAS TURNED DOWN IN JUNE 2006 WHEN I APPEALED BASED ON MY VA FINDINGS. BUT DUE TO THE NDAA I CAN STILL APPLY TO THE PDBR. (Not yelling just empahsis.)
Larry
Larry,
I wish you the best of luck. Keep positive.
2brknairman
I wish you the best of luck. Keep positive.
2brknairman
Mike,
I am kinda of two minds here.
1. It would be great to get my retirement, I truly feel I was low balled.
2. It would probably be better for the people like Big Will if I was denied. Because they would have to really thread the eye of the needle explaining it away, and in the end it would make it rather clear that they had no intention of complying with congress.
Number 2 might make better ammo for Jason and myself and others to pursue it legally. The DOD would not be standing on solid ground with me. Not with Change 1 to the PDBR policy being such a close fit with my circumstances.
So either way it's a win win. Either I get retired, or they give me serious ammunition to help the others. You know sir, after awhile I take a kind of perverse glee in sticking my finger in the their eyes. Especially when I know they are screwing good men and women who wore their countries uniform.
Respectfully,
Larry
I am kinda of two minds here.
1. It would be great to get my retirement, I truly feel I was low balled.
2. It would probably be better for the people like Big Will if I was denied. Because they would have to really thread the eye of the needle explaining it away, and in the end it would make it rather clear that they had no intention of complying with congress.
Number 2 might make better ammo for Jason and myself and others to pursue it legally. The DOD would not be standing on solid ground with me. Not with Change 1 to the PDBR policy being such a close fit with my circumstances.
So either way it's a win win. Either I get retired, or they give me serious ammunition to help the others. You know sir, after awhile I take a kind of perverse glee in sticking my finger in the their eyes. Especially when I know they are screwing good men and women who wore their countries uniform.
Respectfully,
Larry
ALCON,
Here is a new article published on September 10, 2009 shining new light on our cause:
Tussle Over New Disability Review Board
To sound off see Post #479
Again, I have docket #00005, they will have had my packet 9 months tomorrow with no response. Will let everyone know soonest of the results.
Mike, thanks again for all you are doing, if you were not involved all 77,000 of us would have no hope!
Just as a thought, is there anyway to obtain a list of those 77,000 and try to get more of a movement in numbers? Any ideas, you have me at your service.
God Bless
OBIE
Here is a new article published on September 10, 2009 shining new light on our cause:
Tussle Over New Disability Review Board
To sound off see Post #479
Again, I have docket #00005, they will have had my packet 9 months tomorrow with no response. Will let everyone know soonest of the results.
Mike, thanks again for all you are doing, if you were not involved all 77,000 of us would have no hope!
Just as a thought, is there anyway to obtain a list of those 77,000 and try to get more of a movement in numbers? Any ideas, you have me at your service.
God Bless
OBIE
Actually, sound off here.
Tussle Over New Disability Review Board - Topic Powered by Eve Community
The more stories relaying PDBR experiences, the better.
Mike
Tussle Over New Disability Review Board - Topic Powered by Eve Community
The more stories relaying PDBR experiences, the better.
Mike
Jwilliams61735 ,
this goes for u or anyone that posts on here.....Im not going to stand for anyone saying anything negative bout Jason in regards to anything related to dis site.
I know he personally will take the time for a vet when other lawyers wont.
So regardless of ur sitrep dont bring it here n take it out on Jason or anyone thats tryin to be helpful. Everyone thats here has some type of problem theyre dealin wid.
THX
JACK
this goes for u or anyone that posts on here.....Im not going to stand for anyone saying anything negative bout Jason in regards to anything related to dis site.
I know he personally will take the time for a vet when other lawyers wont.
So regardless of ur sitrep dont bring it here n take it out on Jason or anyone thats tryin to be helpful. Everyone thats here has some type of problem theyre dealin wid.
THX
JACK