TDRL

This thread is dedicated to special issues regarding the Temporary Disabled Retired List.
 
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Since I work with veterans, I'm reading through this thread with great interest. I'm wondering if the concept of "combat related" applies to all service members who are deployed to a combat theater, whether they are involved in direct combat actions or in support positions. From what I understand, a guy who served in Vietnam who 40 years later has prostate cancer (presumptive for Agent Orange exposure), would be able to receive both his retirement income and his VA SC award, since the Agent Orange exposure happened as a result of being deployed to a combat zone. Wouldn't the same be true for soldiers in the current combat zone? After all, I believe the intent is to separate out those claims for soldiers who are service-connected for breaking their ankle while playing football at Ft. Bragg, for example, from those who become injured in a war zone. Right?
 
VA Kat

I agree with your line of thinking but that does not seem to be the way it works, at least not the way the Army thinks. Now the VA might be different, but I have not made it to that point yet.
 
VA Kat,

Welcome! It is always nice to have members who work helping others.

At first blush, it is hard to address the example you provided of the AO exposed Veteran. Unless he had length of service retirement (20 years or more) or disability retirement with combat-related injuries, he would not appear to be able to collect both.

But, your question raises some issues. You have to remember that the "combat-related" question comes up in a few contexts. One is for the taxation of benefits. Under 26 USC Section 104, combat-related injuries are not taxable:
"(3) Special rules for combat-related injuries
For purposes of this subsection, the term “combat-related injury” means personal injury or sickness—
(A) which is incurred— (i) as a direct result of armed conflict,
(ii) while engaged in extrahazardous service, or
(iii) under conditions simulating war; or


(B) which is caused by an instrumentality of war."
The other is for Combat-Related Special Compensation (which would allow the member to receive some or all of his otherwise offset VA compensation).

So, this has nothing to do with geographic location. A Soldier at Ft. Bragg who breaks his ankle on a morning run is not combat-related. But, arguably, the same Soldier who breaks his ankle doing a tactical road march as part of a field training exercise would be combat-related. If he broke that ankle on landing from a parachute jump, he definitely would be eligible.

Okay, now, what has changed is that the 2008 NDAA Sec 1646, has stated that there is enhanced payment of severance pay minimum amounts for those injured in a combat zone in a line of duty. So, if the Servicemember is injured and receives severance pay, the minimum he would normally calculate his years of service is three years. But if he is LOD in a combat zone, the minimum is 6 years (his minimum is doubled). If a Soldier has 2 years of service and lands poorly on a parachute jump, and breaks his ankle and only gets 10% and severance pay, he calculates his severance as 3 years (the minimum) times 2 times base pay. He basically gets 6 months base pay. Same Soldier trips coming out of the latrine in Iraq and breaks his ankle and gets 10% rating. He calculates his severance pay as 6 years (the minimum under Section 1646) times 2 times base pay. He gets a years base pay. This is the only area that currently places the import on geography in military disability pay calculations.

The interface between VA and DoD compensation is basically dependent on years of service (20 being the magic number of years) and combat-related nature of the injury.

This is completely different from presumptive service connection for certain conditions incurred in Vietnam (and presumptive AO exposure), which is geography dependent.

Clear as mud, right?
 
Good Grief... I think I'll take the mud :)

In fact, I wasn't thinking of 20-year retirees. Specifically, what came up recently is the case of a Vietnam vet who did his 2 years in-country, came home uninjured, joined the Reserves, and is now eligible to receive his Reserve pay because of his completion of Reserve duty and his age. He was diagnosed with diabetes (presumptive for AO exposure), and was able to apply for CRSC in order to collect both streams of income.

The service officer was fairly certain that the vet would be approved for the CRSC. I'm going to have to follow up and see what the decision was. I thought it was a no-brainer.

On a related subject...

I'm wondering about a service member who receives severance pay for injuries in a war zone. Specifically, the guy is an Army Reservist who was activated and deployed to Iraq. He sustained a through and through gunshot wound that was pretty devastating. He was sent to Landstuhl and on to Walter Reed. He was given a P3 profile (??) and was found not deployable, but denied a medical discharge. His unit redeployed back to Iraq, and he remained behind in an active duty status, doing paperwork and finishing up his enlistment. The injury happened 2 years ago, and the soldier is approaching his discharge date.

From what I understand, the guy will likely receive severance pay. When he is rated by the VA, he certainly will be awarded a SC. I seem to recall several months ago hearing that under the 2008 NDAA, severance pay of this nature (combat related) will not have to be repaid before the guy can receive the VA SC income.

Is this indeed the case?

Thanks in advance.
 
The 2008 NDAA enhanced the minimum years of service for calculating severance pay for those injured in Line of Duty in a combat zone. Eligibility for CRSC and CRDP requires receipt of military disability retired pay. So, if he just has severance and not retired pay, he will normally have to offset his VA compensation by the amount of receipt of severance pay. But, under Sec. 1646 of the NDAA, if incurred in line of duty in a combat zone, he will not have to offset. Remember, this only applies for those cases where he is separated (and not retired) on or after Jan. 28, 2008.
 
Thank you for your reply. This whole process is so confusing, it's no wonder the average soldier doesn't understand his rights or benefits. I was informed on Friday that the guy with the through-and-through GSW will not receive severance pay (on top of no TDRL/PDRL). I'm wondering if it wouldn't be in his best interest to try to reenlist. He would certainly be found unfit for duty. Would not that finding become the basis for a Med Board, as he would be on Active Duty when he attempted to reenlist.

Just trying to think through his options before 7/29.
 
That may be a good option. Before giving any thoughts on this, though, I would want to know more about why he is not being (or should be) sent to an MEB. Does he have a profile? If so, what is the PULHES, is it temp or permanent, how long has he had it? If he has a GSW, but it does not impact him functionally at this point, he probably does not have a basis for a MEB and would not get rated by a PEB. Is he just ETS'ing?
 
The man has been a Reservist (Army) for 12 years. He was activated into Iraq in 2005 along with the rest of his unit. After the GSW, he was sent home for recuperation, sidelined to a desk job and given a P3 profile. I don't know the PULHES, but will be talking to the guy tomorrow and can find out. In the meantime, his unit redeployed to Iraq and he was left behind. He is facing a routine ETS. In the past, he was able to reenlist at this point. And now he cannot??

I'm wondering about the logic behind being fit for duty before the injury, and now being unfit for duty and denied reenlistment after being injured, without some acknowledgement by DOD (in the form of a disability retirement or severance pay) that of his condition is the result of a combat injury.

Regarding his functioning: this man suffered significant damage to his shoulder and neck, and nerve damage resulting in an uncontrollable tremor in his arm. The bullet ripped apart his shoulder and the complex of muscles and nerves leading up his neck. He's 6' and 220 lbs, an auto mechanic whose civilian job requires him to be able to yank transmissions and engines. He's not able to do this at this point.

It's sickening to see how uneducated the guy is about the process, about his rights and benefits. I don't understand how his command has dropped the ball here. Or is this simply a function of the unit returning to Iraq and the guy remaining behind as part of a skeleton crew? There's no one around to advise and advocate.

I appreciate any input.

Also... I am really confused about the repayment of severance pay against any VA award. From what I've read, as of the 1/1/08 severance pay does not have to be repaid for these returning soldiers who are discharged with a package instead of TDRl/PDRL. Interestingly, the first I ever heard of this was on the NBC nightly news several months ago. From what I've read here, I have no idea how this is supposed to work. I've been reading around, and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information.

Can you point me to some definitive reading material that I will be able to print and share?

Thanks again for this terrific site and the easy sharing of information.
 
VA Kat,

Okay, part of the problem is to figure out where he is in the system. If he is going to get severance pay, then he must be referred to the MEB and then PEB. But it sounds like he may be getting ready to ETS. If that is the case, then he likely has not been referred to the MEB/PEB. What is confusing is the statement that he was "denied a medical discharge."

If his unit is useless, he should call the NG Medical Advisor for his region. The link can be found in the Army Forum. If you can't find it, let me know, I will post the link.

You are right, I got caught thinking too much about retirement versus separation pay. Under Sec. 1646 of the 2008 NDAA (look in the 2008 NDAA Forum), if he gets severance pay, he will not have to offset VA compensation by the severance pay incurred in a "combat zone or incurred during performance of duty in combat-related operations as designated by the Secretary of Defense." The effective date is actually Jan 28, 2008, and will apply to those separated on or after that date.

But, I see no reason that he should not be going for retirement pay with the symptoms described. It would take ROM, Nerve Conduction Studies to give an accurate assessment. If he gets to retirement, he will get the retiree benefits, plus presumably qualifying for Combat Related Special Compensation, (with will be calculated by 2.5% times years of service times retired base pay as the amount he will not have to repay). I think he would want to run the possible calculations to compare the non-offset amounts, but the medical benefits are definitely worth it.
 
I also don't know why he would not be able to re-enlist. If he is medically disqualified for retention, he should be referred to MEB and PEB.

I would also question if he is unable to work in his civilian job, is he being paid Incapacitation Pay. He would appear to qualify.
 
Yeah, but if he can't take APFT due to his injury, it should be on his profile. My guess is that no one in his unit knows what to do with him...only things that have me wondering is the "denial of medical discharge" and the question of whether they are telling him he can't re-enlist.

Another thing out there, perhaps in this case, but in a great many Reserve and Guard cases, is if PDES eligible, when is the right date to count benefits from? I think oftentimes, RC Soldiers are injured on active duty orders, then de-mobilize, then at some point in the future are sent to MEB/PEB. It would take showing the injury and symptoms existed at the time they left active duty, but with that, they should be compensated from the time they left active duty and not whenever they finally get through the system (this is assuming they are not placed back on orders/ ADME). I am talking about those who are referred from their units without being placed on orders. In these cases, I think the route to fix it is through BCMR. But, I can't see someone losing that case if they are later retired.
 
Thanks so much for your input.

When I say "denied a medical discharge," this isn't really accurate. This soldier says he was told that if he takes a "Medical Discharge," he cannot also receive an Honorable Discharge. And being naive and abandoned (in my opinion), he has no idea what the truth is.

I can only compare this to my own knowledge of rights and benefits when I came off active duty many years ago. One day I was in Germany, doing the Army thing, and three days later I was in my parents' kitchen having coffee as a civilian.

So, today I will take ll this info to the young man and see where we go from there.

I will, of course, report back.

Thanks again!
 
This what what I understand regarding discharges.

There are three discharges that can be given administratively - honorable, general under honorable conditions, and other-than-honorable. There are two that can be given at a court-martial - bad conduct and dishonorable.

With respect to medical discharges:

When a military member has a medical condition (including mental health conditions) which render them unfit to perform their required duties, they may be separated (or retired) from the military for medical reasons. The process to determine medical fitness for continued duty involves two boards -- One is called the Medical Evaluation Board (MEB), and the other is called the Physical Evaluation Board (PEB).

It may be his unit is just letting his ETS come up so they wont have to do anything about it. Seems like his unit has no clue. He might want to speak with a Retention NCO so he can look him up in his (system) to determine his retention eligibility.
 
Greetings--

Tomorrow I will finally meet the Reservist I've been asking about. When he was first referred to me I heard as much of his story as he was able to tell, and sent him immediately to the VSO in his county. The VSO is extremely knowledgeable and very competent, and has been working with the guy to get this mess straightened out before his ETS. So I know nothing more yet.

But I do have another question:

The VSO and I were discussing the case, and he tells me that if the man is put on TDRL, he will receive his retiree pay only until his VA comp starts. At that time he will lose the TDRL. Period. Eventually (within the 5-yr timeframe) the case will be adjudicated, and the man may indeed wind up on the PDRL. But in the interim, he will have to support his family on whatever he is able to earn coupled with whatever the VA may award.

If the VSO is correct, I'm on the hook for lunch :rolleyes:

Any opinion on this?

Thanks again!
 
Enjoy your lunch on him!

Due to changes in the law as part of the 2008 NDAA, there is no differentiation in treatment of TDRL vs. PDRL pay for VA offseCRSC rules. See this link from the Army CRSC site:https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/crsc/index.html
And this text of the law: http://www.pebforum.com/2008-ndaa-forum/439-provisions-combat-related-special-compensation.html .

So, throw out consideration of the TDRL vs PDRL distinction. What you have to remember is that his offset will still exist to the extent his military compensation exceeds 2.5% times years of active federal service times retired base pay.
 
Jason--


thanks so much for the great info. I just sent the VSO the links you provided and clipped the text of the CRSC law and added it to the email. I'm mulling over lunch venues at this very moment.

I'm hoping that what I read in your post indeed verifies that the reservist is eligible to receive:

TDRL (his base pay x years of svc x multiplier)

and

VA comp (whatever that may be)

and that he will receive both streams of income without offset until adjudication date (maximum 5 yrs).

If this is the deal, I'll send you pix of the lunch locale!

Thanks again!
 
VA Kat said:
TDRL (his base pay x years of svc x multiplier)
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TDRL is calcuated as EITHER a minimum of 50% times retired base pay OR his actual disability rating times retired base pay.

and

VA comp (whatever that may be)

and that he will receive both streams of income without offset until adjudication date (maximum 5 yrs).
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If otherwise eligible for CRSC, he will receive both, but with offset of the amounts above his 2.5% times years of service times retired base pay.

If this is the deal, I'll send you pix of the lunch locale!

Thanks again!
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Not sure if this gets you lunch (there is a partial offset), but I would argue that it should as the treatment of TDRL is the same as PDRL.
Order dessert!
 
Well, well, well!!!!

I'm told the ONLY lunch stipulation is that the venue has to be in-state :D

The VSO was very surprised by the information that I forwarded. His secretary reported some few interesting exclamations that emanated from behind his office door this morning when he opened his email. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall...

I met the young Reservist this morning. The story is VERY complicated. I'll write more later when I get a few minutes, after I pull out my notes for reference.

Again, thanks so much for the great support, information and direction. There are many guys and their families who will benefit as we who are service providers become more educated. We're extremely grateful.
 
VA Kat,

I am glad the info was helpful.

You know, it is very satisfying to help individual Servicemembers and Veterans. But, you and other VSO's, advocates,attorneys, and non-attorney practitioners are "force multipliers" in helping Servicemebers and Veterans. So it is great to spread the knowledge. Remember to refer us to any who are interested in this subject.

And enjoy lunch!
 
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